[Kunzite]

Actually, there's a slight increase in units, for the DSLR production (but a small decrease in value compared to June 2016).
MILCs are increasing quite a lot compared to the low figures for June 2016, but can't keep up with the previous month (May 2017). I suspect we'll stop seeing 16x% increases in the later months.
The DSLR:MILC ratio is more favourable to DSLRs, getting close to 2:1. So... nope, they're not dying.
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201706_e.pdf

[Pål Jensen]

DSLR have been dying for at least a decade if some posts on this forums are to be believed. I'm pretty sure you can find posts in the archieves that predicts that DSLR's will be gone by now...

[Giklab]

DSLR have been dying for at least a decade if some posts on this forums are to be believed. I'm pretty sure you can find posts in the archieves that predicts that DSLR's will be gone by now...

Oh, and don't forget Pentax!

[mecrox]

Actually, there's a slight increase in units, for the DSLR production (but a small decrease in value compared to June 2016).
MILCs are increasing quite a lot compared to the low figures for June 2016, but can't keep up with the previous month (May 2017). I suspect we'll stop seeing 16x% increases in the later months.
The DSLR:MILC ratio is more favourable to DSLRs, getting close to 2:1. So... nope, they're not dying.
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201706_e.pdf

Look at cash values particularly in Japan which accounts for a big chunk of the Pentax piggy bank. Cash values in Japan this June are in the ratio of 3.2 to 2.5 DSLR to MILC and for the year to date in Japan are 17.3 to 14. That's a lot closer than 2 to 1. Similar story in Asia. Europe and North America favour DSLRs by a far greater margin. However, North America doesn't seem to be a big market for Pentax these days. There's no getting round that not having a MILC offer of some kind is probably hurting Ricoh given the current market ratios in Japan and Asia. They used to have this covered with the Q which did very well in Japan so far as I know. They badly need a "modern Q", a comparable idea for our times, I think. Currently, Pentax have nothing to offer an awful lot of potential customers.

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Last edited by mecrox; 08-02-2017 at 05:02 AM.

[Kunzite]

The MILC fans' reaction is... boring, honestly. I posted the same thread on the other forum.
The same old "Pentax desperately needs a MILC", the old "DSLRs are dead", and wet dreams about Canon and Nikon stopping making DSLRs. And a very timid, well hidden acknowledgement that "DSLRs might not be dead, but..."

[Mistral75]

H1 2017 shipments compared to H1 2016 shipments (remember that the Kumamoto earthquakes -there were two main strokes- took place in mid-April 2016):

- cameras with built-in lens: +10.8% in units and +21.2% in cash value
- ILCs: +11,9% in units and +23,1% in cash value

- DSLRs: -5,3% in units and +0,7% in cash value
- mirrorless cameras: +64,5% in units and +84,5% in cash value

(H1 2017 shipments: 1.76 DSLR per mirrorless camera; H1 2016 shipments: 3.06 DSLR per mirrorless camera)

- lenses: +3,9% in units and +6,7% in cash value

- 24x36 lenses: -7,9% in units and +2% in cash value
- lenses for smaller sensors: +9,1% in units and +12,8% in cash value.

Sources: http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201706_e.pdf for cameras and http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/s-201706_e.pdf for lenses.

[boriscleto]

DSLR have been dying for at least a decade if some posts on this forums are to be believed. I'm pretty sure you can find posts in the archieves that predicts that DSLR's will be gone by now...

It's been five years since I joined the forum eight years ago...

[mecrox]

The MILC fans' reaction is... boring, honestly. I posted the same thread on the other forum.
The same old "Pentax desperately needs a MILC", the old "DSLRs are dead", and wet dreams about Canon and Nikon stopping making DSLRs. And a very timid, well hidden acknowledgement that "DSLRs might not be dead, but..."

Only a tiny number of people on either side try to polarize things into either/or. A sensible approach would lead to the conclusion that there is plenty of room in the market for both types of camera. The DSLR-makers are in the luxurious position of being able to offer both types of camera, if they want. Canon already do and until recently so did Nikon and Pentax. I hope they soon do so again. In a country like Japan, so important to Pentax, why deprive yourself of access to about 40 per cent of potential customers? Look on this as a strength. The mirrorless camera companies cannot offer DSLRs. But the DSLR companies can offer mirrorless cameras. The DSLR companies are therefore the ones which can maintain 100 per cent access to the market at all times. That's a pretty good position to be in.

[Kunzite]

We can find such people posting on DSLR specific forums, insistently asking for a MILC-only world - if they feel generous, they might allow DSLRs to coexist a year or two until their certain death
The giveaway: they can't leave DSLRs alone.

[Rondec]

My feeling is that these two types of cameras are more similar than they are different. MILC's selling cards tend to be EVF (folks who love them really, really love them, folks who don't really, really don't), smaller size (this is usually predicated on only using wide-ish angle primes and slow zooms), and the ability to use "any lens out there." At the same time, images are really pretty similar and are more dependent on glass used and photographer's skill level. If you can produce good images with a K-1, you probably can with an A7r II.

The thing right now is that everyone is looking for new revenue streams. The camera market is down as a whole and if you make SLRs and could bump your sale by even 10 or 15 percent by adding a mirrorless camera to your line up, why wouldn't you do it?

[Aristophanes]

DSLR have been dying for at least a decade if some posts on this forums are to be believed. I'm pretty sure you can find posts in the archieves that predicts that DSLR's will be gone by now...

The dedicated camera market had a surge of activity once 6 MP sensors came out. The trend line was nearly vertical in sales increases.

but what goes up, comes down, and sales are now at historical norms, as much as we can say for the relatively new digital side of things. The compact market has been eviscerated in favour of smartphones.

This is still a large consumer product market with room for multiple players. There is no doubt that the long-term favours mirrorless as the growth segment, largely cannibalizing sales from the prism side of things (save Leica). It is still hard to say if mirrorless will replace DSLR, though. Sony appears to think so, but Canikon DSLR sales are still OK. It's very hard to bounce established tech and user—especially professional—preference.

[Kunzite]

@Rondec:
It's a matter of priorities. The installed user base is your most important asset, and you won't destroy it (the 100%) just to get the 10 or 15%.

I agree that Ricoh Imaging should make their own large sensor mirrorless whenever possible. But now, they must execute the K-mount lens roadmap...

[monochrome]

I really, really think Pentax has to figure out how to tell the world outside Japan they even exist, much less compete on final image basis.

[Rondec]

@Rondec:
It's a matter of priorities. The installed user base is your most important asset, and you won't destroy it (the 100%) just to get the 10 or 15%.

I agree that Ricoh Imaging should make their own large sensor mirrorless whenever possible. But now, they must execute the K-mount lens roadmap...

I really, really think Pentax has to figure out how to tell the world outside Japan they even exist, much less compete on final image basis.

I agree with you both. The biggest concern is the amazingly slow release of known products.

At the same time, Pentax is in the (enviable?) position of having such a small share of the market outside of Japan that it really shouldn't be hard for them to grow. Just about any sales in the US would bump up overall sales. They don't need new cameras as much as they need to market existing cameras. Most of the reasons that mirrorless cameras sell well would also apply to the KP -- if people actually knew about it.

[Kunzite]

Yes, that is my concern as well - but we sort of know what they're working on (the lens roadmap). My guess (or hope, if you wish) is that we'll start seeing why it takes so long next spring.