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10-10-2017, 06:11 AM - 3 Likes   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by adjutant Quote
Absolutely not. Small sensor is an asset of the Q. The obsession with sensor size has gone too far, the small sensor produces great images.
I get a lot of shots with the Q precisely because of its small size. The plastic lenses, BTW, are not picked up by most metal wands at concerts, museums etc. The camera goes where I go.

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10-10-2017, 02:35 PM   #32
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hm... fast zoom lenses in a compact format not possible for FF compact or APS-C?

i render that wrong.
most things get done the way they are, because infrastructure to produce parts commonly used is already there .... And people love to believe in things that they already know.

Thing is RICOH as a brand and company showed that it can go its own ways, and if needed i am sure RICOH could be set up to produce its own sensors in 6 months from the point where a decision was made.

And from time to time things change... I guess RICOH could do such a camera. But I have doubts it will in the near future...

If you dont know fast analogue zoom compact cameras... pleas ask... I may tell you one or the other.

And since we are not moving back in time but forth, my good guess is, it may be possible to make it even a smaller than in the analogue era, since there is no thick 135mm film cartridge that must be loaded into a camera body.
10-10-2017, 04:06 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by adjutant Quote
Absolutely not. Small sensor is an asset of the Q. The obsession with sensor size has gone too far, the small sensor produces great images.
Small sensor dedicated cameras cannot compete with smartphones. Period.

Optics and larger sensors are now to sole domain of dedicated cameras.

The brain trust at Ricoh/Pentax thought otherwise and missed the tsunami of smartphone decimation of almost the entire small sensor camera market.
10-11-2017, 06:54 AM - 2 Likes   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Small sensor dedicated cameras cannot compete with smartphones. Period.
Yep, I've never been able to make calls with my Q's.

10-11-2017, 07:28 AM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Small sensor dedicated cameras cannot compete with smartphones. Period.
With respect, I disagree.

Smartphone cameras can do great things these days, for sure, but they don't resolve the same level of finer detail - nor do they boast the higher ISO performance - of something like even the original Q. They're fine for web size images and - in some cases - full screen viewing on a laptop, but the limitations quickly become apparent at decent reproduction ratios.

I'm still amazed at the level of detail that can be captured by the Q cameras, even with demanding landscape shots...

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-11-2017 at 10:18 AM.
10-11-2017, 09:05 AM - 2 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Small sensor dedicated cameras cannot compete with smartphones. Period.

Optics and larger sensors are now to sole domain of dedicated cameras.

The brain trust at Ricoh/Pentax thought otherwise and missed the tsunami of smartphone decimation of almost the entire small sensor camera market.
LOL!

Apparently Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, and Sony did not get the memo and nor did the millions of buyers of these cameras (2017 Roundup: Compact Enthusiast Zoom Cameras: Digital Photography Review, 2017 Roundup: Enthusiast Long Zoom Cameras: Digital Photography Review, 2017 Roundup: Consumer Long Zoom Compacts: Digital Photography Review).

Despite the sea of smartphones, I still see plenty of people using compact dedicated cameras. In fact, even in 2017, compact cameras still out-sell ILCs.

For millions of consumers, it's smartphones that cannot compete (period!) with compact cameras on optical zoom, image quality, ergonomics, viewfinders, etc.
10-11-2017, 09:18 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
LOL!

For millions of consumers, it's smartphones that cannot compete (period!) with compact cameras on optical zoom, image quality, ergonomics, viewfinders, etc.
I didn't see P&S cameras in the hands of people for a long time...I even didn't see P&S cameras in photo stores for last years. Only Sony 1" compacts.
10-11-2017, 09:35 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, I disagree.

Smartphone cameras can do great things these days, for sure, but they don't resolve the same level of finer detail - no do they boast the higher ISO performance .
99% of users don't care about it. New smartphones has rather good high ISO for small sensors.


Last edited by ogl; 10-11-2017 at 09:40 AM.
10-11-2017, 10:04 AM - 2 Likes   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
99% of users don't care about it. New smartphones has rather good high ISO for small sensors.
So, you admit that 1% do care and there's about 2 billion smartphone users so there's 20 million people looking for a better camera. Sounds like a huge opportunity.
10-11-2017, 10:15 AM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
99% of users don't care about it. New smartphones has rather good high ISO for small sensors.
Agreed... or, rather, I'd agree that 99% of casual users don't care. For them, small sensor dedicated cameras probably don't compete with smartphones. The majority of serious amateur photographers do care, though (or if they don't, they really should).

Newer smartphones certainly have better high ISO capabilities than the older models, but they still fall apart at much lower sensitivities than the Q cameras. Of course, the fast prime lenses on phones mean the ISO can be kept at or near base level much of the time. Even so, come early evening or night-time, higher ISOs result in noisy images with compromised detail and very limited dynamic range. Again, that doesn't matter to the casual user, but it does to us photographers...
10-11-2017, 10:33 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I didn't see P&S cameras in the hands of people for a long time...I even didn't see P&S cameras in photo stores for last years. Only Sony 1" compacts.
I definitely see fewer than I used to... but, on my recent vacation to Crete, there were plenty of them in use by tourists. And, here in the UK, our photography and electronics stores still sell P&S compacts - Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Sony, Ricoh, Olympus and others...
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10-11-2017, 11:37 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
I get a lot of shots with the Q precisely because of its small size. The plastic lenses, BTW, are not picked up by most metal wands at concerts, museums etc. The camera goes where I go.
Ringo says: "What's that in your hands?"
10-11-2017, 01:53 PM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Ringo says: "What's that in your hands?"
If it actually happens, I hope it's not APS-C, or even micro 4/3. Picking up a used GX100, very cheaply, is actually what convinced me I'd rather work with a Q7 than a K-3 ii. Sure, the modern APS-C sensors are amazing, but I don't need them, and neither do a lot of users. Something you can put in your pocket and always have with you is more useful in the end, which is why smartphones get used for a lot of picture-taking, but that's not to say they're a meaningful replacement, and here's why. The lens on the GX100 is fantastic edge-to-edge wide open, and together with uncooked RAW even from that small, old CCD sensor the results from careful use at base ISO are nothing short of excellent, including macro, and the interface is an ideal balance of simplicity and function. I am never going to get that out of a smartphone.

I have one of the better smartphones for photography, I can shoot RAW with it, I like to use the sweep panorama function, it possibly has less noise in low light than the GX100, but it still doesn't match the 10-year-old compact camera for actually making photographs.

If you put even the sensor from the Q7 in the old GX100 body/lens and updated the electronics to keep up on speed, that would be a worthwhile camera. I still use the GX200 alongside the Qs, since for whatever reason there is no Q lens that does decent macro. The GX series lens does great macro. I'd rather use the GX100 for it but the camera doesn't quite respond fast enough to keep up with living insects and whatnot, it makes much nicer base ISO RAWs than the 12mp GX200 sensor. Put a modern sensor in it and the point is moot.

All this arguing over how much of the market smartphones have eaten is kind of pointless. Ricoh/Pentax make niche cameras, big and small, that sell sufficiently to a specific customer base. Other manufacturers are selling their quality-focused smallish-sensor compacts successfully. Why not Ricoh?
10-11-2017, 01:57 PM   #44
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@er1kksen - what a great post. Whilst I have no experience of the GX100 or GX200, I agree 100% with your points. And, whilst I'm a big fan of the K-3 (it's my main camera, if I can claim to have just one), I'm equally a fan of the Q cameras for so many reasons - IQ being just one
10-11-2017, 05:01 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
LOL!

Apparently Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, and Sony did not get the memo and nor did the millions of buyers of these cameras (2017 Roundup: Compact Enthusiast Zoom Cameras: Digital Photography Review, 2017 Roundup: Enthusiast Long Zoom Cameras: Digital Photography Review, 2017 Roundup: Consumer Long Zoom Compacts: Digital Photography Review).

Despite the sea of smartphones, I still see plenty of people using compact dedicated cameras. In fact, even in 2017, compact cameras still out-sell ILCs.

For millions of consumers, it's smartphones that cannot compete (period!) with compact cameras on optical zoom, image quality, ergonomics, viewfinders, etc.
You realize the compact camera market has lost close to 90% of its value? It took less than 5 years. It is a textbook business case of a tech change almost eliminating an entire market segment.
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