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10-11-2017, 10:40 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by fredralphfred Quote
the 645z just looks more impressive to many non-camera-savvy customers than the Hasselblad or Fuji bodies.
Wheres that come from?

---------- Post added 10-12-17 at 04:42 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Fuji are the guys playing catch-up,
Is this the same as RI playing catch up with the entry level FF?

10-12-2017, 02:51 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Can someone explain how the sigma 18-35 can have a t score of: 1.8 on d90, 2 on d5300, and 2.3 on d500, and d200 1.9? Is this cell walls?
My guess with regard to their lens scores is that they are based on a single copy and that that copy may change -- I don't think they are buying lenses. My understanding with the 645z review they were doing was that someone had loaned them 645 gear to test. With that in mind, there is a lot of copy variation. The Sigma 35 f1.4 tested quite differently on Nikon than it did on Pentax. This may just say that Sigma doesn't have as consistent quality control as they should have.

As for the overall question as to why the 645z wasn't officially reviewed, I still think there was some kick back from one of the bigger brands. I am sure that even with the price of medium format coming down the number of medium format users is dwarfed by the number of Canon/Nikon/Sony users and if one of those companies made it worth their while to hold back the 645z review I am sure it isn't too hard to figure it out.
10-12-2017, 05:41 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Can someone explain how the sigma 18-35 can have a t score of: 1.8 on d90, 2 on d5300, and 2.3 on d500, and d200 1.9? Is this cell walls?
There's at least five causes of this:

Pixel size: affects whether the lens out-resolves the sensor or the sensor out-resolved the lens.

Antialiasing filter: Affects how a very sharp lens might induce artifacts.

Sensor microlens design: affects vignetting of the lens.

Sensor pixel design: can affect both moire artifacts and pixel-crosstalk

Sensor color response: affects any latent color cast or color issues associated with lens.

P.S. And if the test is done on JPGs, then the camera's standard settings for sharpness, contrast, etc. affect the test scores of the lens.
10-12-2017, 06:16 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Can someone explain how the sigma 18-35 can have a t score of: 1.8 on d90, 2 on d5300, and 2.3 on d500, and d200 1.9?
The high-school interns (or back-packers?) they use to conduct their camera body and lens tests are indifferent to quality work?

10-12-2017, 06:23 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Nice to know the real reason for why the score wasn't published
If that was the truth, why did they publish the 645Z's sensor synthesis for only a few days end of 2015, and why didn't they reply to the subsequent questions asking for the complete test and about the synthesis withdrawal on their forum ?
Too late to be trusted.
10-12-2017, 06:46 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Wheres that come from?

---------- Post added 10-12-17 at 04:42 PM ----------



Is this the same as RI playing catch up with the entry level FF?
Fuji's implementation of mirrorless design leaves a lot to be desired. Conceptually it is great -- shrink the size of the camera and still have great overall functionality. The reality is that auto focus is really poor and the EVF isn't all that it could be. There have been several folks on the Forum who tried it hoping that it would replace their 645z gear, but decided that it wasn't there yet.

In another generation or two, Fuji will probably have things worked out better and have a better lens line up, but they just aren't there yet.
10-12-2017, 06:58 AM - 1 Like   #22
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With all due respect I don't believe a word DxO says. They seem to be a very competent set of "cover your ass " types. The only review of MF actually removed was the 645z.
The Phase One IQ180 Digital Back is a 645 sensor and is still on the site. They had time to remove the 645z reference but no time to remove the Phase one reference.

So, what they did was directed at the Pentax 645z, their denial, that's just good business. Try and irritate as few potential customers as possible. You folks can believe this nonsense if you want. Actions speak louder than words.
10-12-2017, 08:12 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Wow, that's confidence Adam! What makes you so sure Pentax will continue the 645 family? Recent much more compact mirrorless MF makes me wonder whether the large Pentax 645 model has a future.

In any case, which sensor would they have access to?
The Pentax 645 definitely has a future if Ricoh chooses to invest in it. The Pentax 645 platform can handle a true 60x45 sensor and it has room to implement IBIS. IBIS is a core Pentax technology so I do expect to see a 645 body from Ricoh with IBIS and pixel shift. I would guess that the next body will either have IBIS with the same size sensor or it will have a larger sensor like we see in the Phase One.

What Ricoh desperately needs is new glass for the system. Fuji will have 6 MF lenses out this year.

10-12-2017, 12:13 PM   #24
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The 645z has a sensor for which there is no successor yet unless Pentax goes up market with the true 645 100mp sensor (deprecating expensive crop (DA lenses). But Hey those are wide angle so not needed on FA) It already has Pentax latest AF, maybe it could be spread a bit more making the AF points even larger. Pentax could put in the noise reduction processor (like it needs that.....). I see no reason to replace it. Ricoh should only do that if they are going to use the 100mp sensor. After that they could bring out a mirrorless dslr like 645 crop sensor mirrorless body to compete with Fuji. Maybe they could even acquire lenses from the same party Hasselblad got them from, so they won't have to design an expensive new line up. Of course the current 645 lenses can be adapted to it.
10-12-2017, 12:29 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
There have been several folks on the Forum who tried it hoping that it would replace their 645z gear, but decided that it wasn't there yet.
Yes, ive read some of their comments,fair enough, its their individual opinions.Ive also read the comments,not on PF,of the folks who glowingly praise Fujis product.Some of these peeps have ditched their 645z for Fuji.On the other side of the coin there have been fuji X system advocates who have bought into their MF system and sold just about immediately,it just didnt suit them!

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
In another generation or two, Fuji will probably have things worked out better and have a better lens line up, but they just aren't there yet.
Will it take that long?...i doubt that!....Fuji are renown for their progressive firmware updates, when they release the 100mp sensor model it should be "there".
As far as lenses go,6 native mounts in 12months and if you tie that in with the glass that can be adapted,then theres hundreds.



QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Fuji's implementation of mirrorless design leaves a lot to be desired
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The reality is that auto focus is really poor and the EVF isn't all that it could be
Thats why they are selling a **** load of them. ha ha.
10-12-2017, 12:40 PM   #26
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@surfar What was the pre-order for the Fuji? IIRC Pentax was overwhelmed by the preorder of 20,000 645z units. Their initial planned production for the entire run was supposedly only 10,000. At the time, comments from our inside whisperer indicated everything else (IOW K-1) was on hold. Pentax was all 645z, all the time.

IMHO something similar might be happeninging now (but I have no knowledge).
10-12-2017, 12:52 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@surfar What was the pre-order for the Fuji
Good Q, ask Fuji because i dont know.


QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IIRC Pentax was overwhelmed by the preorder of 20,000 645z units
A niche product attracts attention....



QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
IMHO something similar might be happeninging now (but I have no knowledge).
Could be?
10-12-2017, 01:14 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
The 645z has a sensor for which there is no successor yet unless Pentax goes up market with the true 645 100mp sensor (deprecating expensive crop (DA lenses). (...)
Two new BSI Sony sensors should be available in 2018:

- 100 Mpix, 33x44mm (same size as the current 50 Mpix sensor): IMX461
- 150 Mpix, 40.4x53.7mm (same size as the current 100 Mpix sensor): IMX411

http://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/news/detail/170301.pdf
10-12-2017, 01:17 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes, ive read some of their comments,fair enough, its their individual opinions.Ive also read the comments,not on PF,of the folks who glowingly praise Fujis product.Some of these peeps have ditched their 645z for Fuji.On the other side of the coin there have been fuji X system advocates who have bought into their MF system and sold just about immediately,it just didnt suit them!



Will it take that long?...i doubt that!....Fuji are renown for their progressive firmware updates, when they release the 100mp sensor model it should be "there".
As far as lenses go,6 native mounts in 12months and if you tie that in with the glass that can be adapted,then theres hundreds.







Thats why they are selling a **** load of them. ha ha.
I'm not sure what you are saying. The issue is probably mostly a hardware issue. Basically, it has the same sensor as the 645z which is pretty old. There are no PDAF sensor points and the EVF is what it is too and if it is laggy and prone to freezing, I don't know that you can fix that much.

As far as the "100 megapixel model," I suppose that is possible although I don't think their mount is capable of a full size 645 sensor (which the Pentax is). I don't know how many they are actually selling. Some, but the hard numbers are probably pretty low -- for the same price you can get a pretty sweet full frame kit and lenses.

I know you really like mirrorless cameras and that is fine, but the most important thing is that the cameras meet the photographer's needs who have purchased them. It doesn't seem like Fuji is there quite yet and I doubt they are going to release a second generation medium format for a year or two.
10-12-2017, 02:09 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
A niche product attracts attention...
Institutional preorders alone (Police, Fire, Military) were supposedly 8,500 units.
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