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10-19-2017, 02:52 AM   #16
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My views on a 'Full 645' Pentax digital camera:

- 'Full 645' digital sensors (40.4mm x 53.7mm actually, a bit smaller than film 645 format = 41.5mm x 56mm) are expensive and so are the corresponding digital backs (Hasselblad H6D-100c and Phase One IQ1 100MP: $33,000)
- even if Ricoh Imaging were able to propose a substantially cheaper Pentax 'Full 645', say around $20,000, would there be a market for it?

Let's face it: the lens offer is not attractive in comparison to what Hasselblad or Phase One (Schneider) propose. 12 FA 645 lenses and 1 D FA 645 lens (the 35mm) are what, 20 or 25-year old? Only two lenses are more recent: the 90mm macro, launched 5 years ago, and the 55mm, launched 7 and a half years ago.

Having to use lenses among which most were designed during the film era is acceptable when you can buy a 645Z for $5,500: it's a cheap entry ticket into medium format territory. I'm not convinced people needing/asking for a 100MP, soon 150MP 'full 645' sensor and requested to put $20,000 on the table to buy it (or to pay the corresponding rental fee) would accept it as easily.

10-19-2017, 02:54 AM   #17
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Thibs, the issue I have is with the strong language used; otherwise I'm open to discussion, and to hearing other's opinions. It's saying that something is "stupid" that closes the door to discussion.

Indeed a "full frame" 645 makes sense, to offer a clear differentiation from the small format. But that's not the only factor; I have similar concerns with Mistral. Less about the lens line, but mostly about the total cost of entering that market, and the existence of said market.
Perhaps the "cropped" 645 is a sweet spot.

And even if eventually a "full frame" 645 would make sense, let me put it this way: was it stupid for Pentax to make the DA Limiteds?

Last edited by Kunzite; 10-19-2017 at 03:04 AM.
10-19-2017, 04:04 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And even if eventually a "full frame" 645 would make sense, let me put it this way: was it stupid for Pentax to make the DA Limiteds?
I think it's rather strange categories for serious business - stupid or not stupid...
The commercial decision could be profitable or advantageous to produce, or non-profitable...

Last edited by ogl; 10-19-2017 at 06:57 AM.
10-19-2017, 05:20 AM   #19
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Ogl, please pay attention - I'm not the one thinking in such a manner, Zygonyx is.

10-19-2017, 06:56 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ogl, please pay attention - I'm not the one thinking in such a manner, Zygonyx is.
Need to read I think
10-19-2017, 07:39 AM   #21
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am i wrong in thinking that high $$ commercial customers require high $$ cameras... not because a cheaper camera is less capable, but because customers need to see that you're using the most expensive equipment?
10-19-2017, 12:26 PM   #22
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I don't agree with the 645 FF sensor price tag hereabove. Remember the price gap with traditional MF SLR/backs when Hoya did issue the 645D in 2010 (btw, that i did buy straight away)..

I am sure the marginal production cost for 645 DFA lenses is something to be related with the very slight volume hitch, as from DA versions. So there is nothing comparable btw DA limited in K mount and DA 645, as compared with FF versions. Look at the bulky DA28-45mm, using best available techs, it would have been possible to build it DFA with almost invisible volume increase.

Finally, taking into account the sluggish new lens formula production pace with RI, i can't imagine they carry on with such nonsense MF DA designs. Or the result will be ridiculous sales within a few years, and consequent liquidation of the 645 product line.
Indeed, competition is now aggressive.


---------- Post added 19-10-17 at 12:28 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
am i wrong in thinking that high $$ commercial customers require high $$ cameras... not because a cheaper camera is less capable, but because customers need to see that you're using the most expensive equipment?
I get that argument.
But most of all, absolute enthusiast and professionnals value the investment price tag when the quality markup follows...

Last edited by Zygonyx; 10-19-2017 at 12:36 PM.
10-19-2017, 01:11 PM   #23
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I think that Pentax are in a unique position to be able to service the market from both angles, in that they could produce a 645Z II with a new 100mp sensor and optical viewfinder, plus also release concurrently a 645Z II M which has the mirror box and OVF removed and has a massive EVF and full time live view.

Imagine that!

10-21-2017, 06:33 AM   #24
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I'd buy that.
Hopefully this "new lenses retention period" we are witnessing, could be the preparation of a new MF product line, adaptor included.
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