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09-04-2008, 11:18 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
In the coming one year or so, most new DSLR buyers will still buy APS-C DSLRs but by a brand who has a Full Frame flagship or "budget" FF DSLRs and will buy FF lenses than easily invest in more APS-C lenses than previous. Just believe it or not!
Wait, you're predicting that most cameras sold in the coming year will be Canon or Nikon? Really going out on a limb with this one...

Your statement also implies but doesn't state that most consumers understand the difference between "full frame" and APS-C, and that most consumers understand the difference between lenses designed for one format or the other. None of this is the case. Overwhelmingly, people are just buying a DSLR and kit lens, and those that buy an additional lens typically have no idea what "focal length" actually means, let alone how it corresponds to angle of view and how sensor size changes that angle of view. These consumers typically buy a kit lens and a "zoom" lens, "zoom" in this context actually meaning "telephoto," but they also don't know that word nor do they know that "zoom" actually has a real meaning, and that meaning has nothing to do with how "close" a lens lets you get. Likewise, they don't know that both of their lenses actually *are* "zoom" lenses. Just believe it or not.

09-04-2008, 12:31 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
This person joined 3 days ago "just" for Photokina? A little strange? Bueller?

Like I've said before, I want to see how many people said they want FF vs. how many actually buy...
I'm buying a FF camera before the end of the year. Which one i buy depends on whats available. Of course Pentax is my preference but if dont have it i'll move on. Not saying i might not do dual system but who knows?

There is more that goes into the decision than just the FF feature but obviously there are a lot of people that just jump in fright when people say they want a FF camera. Again price is going to determine a lot of people's decisions and i'm sure more than a few members on this board would get a Pentax FF camera if the opportunity presented itself.

Go Pentax!! \o/
09-04-2008, 12:40 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Busiko Quote
I've been following this thread and could not understand its purpose. After hours around the room I realized that the fact Pentax is not leaking is because of the weather sealing effectiveness. That's it.
Rui
Finally someone got the message. We need a Portuguese to understand the Russian.
09-04-2008, 12:42 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by ryan s Quote
This person joined 3 days ago "just" for Photokina? A little strange? Bueller?

Like I've said before, I want to see how many people said they want FF vs. how many actually buy...
Hey man, believe it or not, I'm in Köln:

Flickr: e_walk's Photostream

Feel free to click the Köln Album to the right. I'm on a year-long exchange program in Germany.

Geeze, some people are just too damn cynical. And if you did a search for my previous posts, I was having problems importing .DNGs from my K200D - I didn't join "just" for Photokina.

Heck, I'll even take a picture of a taxi for y'all on my way to class tomorrow.

09-04-2008, 01:59 PM   #140
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Fair enough...too many people "pose" on the internet so I tend to be suspicious...

Meine Schuld
09-04-2008, 02:29 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
The news will be "leaked out" at the Photokina and I will be one of the first to see the new stuff in real.

BTW, I know nothing at the moment, so please don't ask
Hope you can bring the good news!
09-04-2008, 07:10 PM   #142
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Pentax can show K20D super with higher fps (4.5-5) and with some improvements in the same body based on K20D.
09-04-2008, 08:10 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by wiyum Quote
Wait, you're predicting that most cameras sold in the coming year will be Canon or Nikon? Really going out on a limb with this one...
Also Sony, who also has had a FF now, the 24.6MP A900.

QuoteQuote:
Your statement also implies but doesn't state that most consumers understand the difference between "full frame" and APS-C, and that most consumers understand the difference between lenses designed for one format or the other. None of this is the case.
(Snipped)
Yes, most new beginners don't know the difference, but they will look for (the existence of) a flagship in the lineup before they are decided (even just for the low end cheap models and kit zooms)!

On the other hand, for older users, they would know the differences between FF and 1.5X and half-frame and of course the quality difference between primes and zooms.

09-04-2008, 10:59 PM   #144
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I think that we can see

1. K*** (not K2000D) - entry-level

2. K20D super

3. DA*55/1.4, DA*60-250/4

4. announce of DA*30, DA15 limited, DA11-16, DA400 for 2009

5. new flash

6. new bag for DA limited

7. new AF system

All will be clear soon...^)
09-05-2008, 03:09 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I think that we can see

1. K*** (not K2000D) - entry-level

2. K20D super

3. DA*55/1.4, DA*60-250/4

4. announce of DA*30, DA15 limited, DA11-16, DA400 for 2009

5. new flash

6. new bag for DA limited

7. new AF system

All will be clear soon...^)
There is no sound nor smell so far! :-)
09-05-2008, 03:32 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I think that we can see

1. K*** (not K2000D) - entry-level

2. K20D super

3. DA*55/1.4, DA*60-250/4

4. announce of DA*30, DA15 limited, DA11-16, DA400 for 2009

5. new flash

6. new bag for DA limited

7. new AF system

All will be clear soon...^)
That has got to be the most optimistic post I have ever seen, and most unrealistic. The only thing you missed was a announcement of a FF in 2009. # 1 will happen this year but the rest will cost money and Hoya will not be doing that.
09-05-2008, 04:22 AM   #147
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regken, why do you say that? Pentax brought us two bodies at once in the past and they've been making the 60-250 for ages ... I think the time for this lens has finally come. Also the DA*55 is a lens that is fairly possible right now.
If I tell you what I expect Pentax will roll out at Photokina you would die of a heart attack.

K20D Super is probably not going to happen - at least not under that name. They'll call it K30D IMHO. And I'm hoping for new AF, new sensor under 20mpix and practically the same body as K20D. If Pentax can give me that by Christmas I will be extremely happy, my K10D is aging fast ... need ... more ... dynamic ... range ... and ... better ... focusing.
09-05-2008, 05:55 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Also Sony, who also has had a FF now, the 24.6MP A900.

Yes, most new beginners don't know the difference, but they will look for (the existence of) a flagship in the lineup before they are decided (even just for the low end cheap models and kit zooms)!
Beginners don't even know what the 1Ds Mark III, A900, and D3 are. I doubt people who bought the d40x even knows that there is a D90. I would put a good bet on even most big box store salesmen in the Camera section don't know what the D3 and 1Ds Mark III is.

What beginners look for is name recognition, ease of getting the accessories, and Price.

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
On the other hand, for older users, they would know the differences between FF and 1.5X and half-frame and of course the quality difference between primes and zooms.
Even in the group of people that buy cameras at the 40d-50d level don't all know what FF is.

The group that fits all your description is a very small percentage of the Mass majority of camera purchasers.

Last edited by Okami; 09-05-2008 at 06:05 AM.
09-05-2008, 06:02 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by Okami Quote
Beginners don't even know what the 1Ds Mark III, A900, and D3 are. I doubt people who bought the d40x even knows that there is a D90. I would put a good bet on even most big box store salesmen in the Camera section don't know what the D3 and 1Ds Mark III is.

What beginners look for is name recognition, ease of getting the accessories, and Price.
So, how come the name recognition, then? Ads? Pros are all using? Or..?

QuoteQuote:
Even in the group of people that buy cameras at the 40d-50d level don't all know what FF is.

The group that fits all your description is a very small percentage of the Mass majority of camera purchasers
Most of us here knows what FF are and I bet 99.9% do use APS-C only. So?
09-05-2008, 06:53 AM   #150
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Regular photo n00bs go to a major store and see the shiny box with a d40x inside. They don't ask questions, they just buy it. On one side I'm glad those kinds of people don't use Pentax and on the other Pentax could use some n00bs who buy cameras and don't take pictures (people like you RH). We've been down the FF talk road many times and people who need it can buy a Canikon or Fony or even go for a Hassie or Mamiya if they want.

Why are you so persistent with pushing the "Pentax needs a FF camera NOW" idea. Pentax will make a FF when it's ready for it - if it's this year, next year or ten years from now - who knows.

You've got your FF, shoot with it and shut up.
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