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01-09-2018, 01:15 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Yes, but will it bring a K3 replacement?

Chris
And what does that have to do with the new firmware for K-1?

01-09-2018, 01:52 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
The camera does not, which is why Rico suggests to let the user dial it manually. Exactly like the camera asks for focal length info when using a lens not able to pass this info to the cam.

This would only be a way to record a complete exif. No influence on exposure.
Okay.

It would be novel ... I shoot with adapted glass on Sony all the time and there's no facility for that.
01-09-2018, 01:54 AM   #93
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Ricoh has zero interest in investing one cent into supporting obsolete manual lenses. That is no news.

I want apple to run my old DOS software natively. When do they support that?
01-09-2018, 09:25 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
The camera does not, which is why Rico suggests to let the user dial it manually. Exactly like the camera asks for focal length info when using a lens not able to pass this info to the cam.

This would only be a way to record a complete exif. No influence on exposure.
Yes this is what I mean exactly. I find it funny people are having trouble understanding this clearly. The use of old lenses have been described as crippled. Specifically when it comes to metering. Even though Pentax included the Green button and Stop down Preview metering where the user can actually see the light meter working in real time when you turn the aperture ring on the lens. Both these features are to benefit the use of old manual lenses. So I have never seen the mount as "crippled".

What is crippling to me is Pentax going above and beyond to allow two separate ways of light metering for manual lenses then not allowing the user the simple function of manually being able to record the ƒ stop used for exif instead all that ever shows up is ƒ--. To me this is just unfinished for to many years now.

The software engineers has the interface show "--" for aperture when the camera detects a manual lenses. In the code where it says show "--" instead they have a set of ƒ stops the user has the ability to scroll through to indicate the ƒ stop in use for that image. The bonus the ƒ stop will show in the viewfinder.

Pentax should really have a profile for all their legacy lenses so when you choose the focal length for a manual lenses you are not just choosing a focal length the camera is using a profile for a specific lens. In turn then the camera knows what ƒ stops need to be shown for that lens. You could set up a user profile that only uses the legacy lens profiles for the ones you have eliminating having to scroll through all of them every time.

01-09-2018, 10:15 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
Yes this is what I mean exactly. I find it funny people are having trouble understanding this clearly. The use of old lenses have been described as crippled. Specifically when it comes to metering. Even though Pentax included the Green button and Stop down Preview metering where the user can actually see the light meter working in real time when you turn the aperture ring on the lens. Both these features are to benefit the use of old manual lenses. So I have never seen the mount as "crippled".

What is crippling to me is Pentax going above and beyond to allow two separate ways of light metering for manual lenses then not allowing the user the simple function of manually being able to record the ƒ stop used for exif instead all that ever shows up is ƒ--. To me this is just unfinished for to many years now.

The software engineers has the interface show "--" for aperture when the camera detects a manual lenses. In the code where it says show "--" instead they have a set of ƒ stops the user has the ability to scroll through to indicate the ƒ stop in use for that image. The bonus the ƒ stop will show in the viewfinder.

Pentax should really have a profile for all their legacy lenses so when you choose the focal length for a manual lenses you are not just choosing a focal length the camera is using a profile for a specific lens. In turn then the camera knows what ƒ stops need to be shown for that lens. You could set up a user profile that only uses the legacy lens profiles for the ones you have eliminating having to scroll through all of them every time.
Umm, the focal length is reported by the electronics in the lens. I see what you are getting at, but it would require yet another layer of complexity in the camera body with yet more electronics to go wrong, and more added cost, and would give no practical benefit to the user. Having said that, I really don't understand this fetish that people have for EXIF data, so I am probably not the best person to ask to be a cheerleader for this particular feature.
It seems to me that it would be just as easy to pull out a pen and paper and write down the aperture by file number, as you are going to have to make some pretty good gymnastics to keep track of it in camera anyway.
01-09-2018, 10:18 AM   #96
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It would have users manually entering the f-stop every time they change the aperture. Which won't happen.
So the net effect would be an EXIF tag which will almost always be wrong.
01-09-2018, 10:50 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
And what does that have to do with the new firmware for K-1?
Nothing as such, but it is a similar long wait....
01-09-2018, 10:58 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It would have users manually entering the f-stop every time they change the aperture. Which won't happen.
So the net effect would be an EXIF tag which will almost always be wrong.
When you set the preference for using aperture ring give the option to set the preference to show "--" for those users incapable of manually setting the ƒ stop or show "ƒ stops" for those users who can record the proper ƒ stop.

01-09-2018, 11:11 AM - 1 Like   #99
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Yes. And they'd set the aperture once, and later change it only on the lens. It's unavoidable.

There must be a single source of truth for the aperture, and that must be the actual setting. IMO.

Last edited by Kunzite; 01-09-2018 at 11:24 AM.
01-09-2018, 11:25 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yes. And they'd set the aperture once, and later change it only on the lens. It's unavoidable.
^^^^^This^^^^^
01-09-2018, 11:35 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yes. And they'd set the aperture once, and later change it only on the lens. It's unavoidable.

There must be a single source of truth for the aperture, and that must be the actual setting. IMO.
It's unavoidable only for those who are incapable.

---------- Post added 01-09-18 at 01:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
^^^^^This^^^^^
So the solution is limit the user to ƒ-- in camera combined with using a pad and pencil to record the ƒ stop for every image captured.
01-09-2018, 11:43 AM - 1 Like   #102
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If to enter aperture size for exif, it would be better for the camera to ask for it after each shot has been captured.
So it reminds you to input correct value.
01-09-2018, 11:45 AM   #103
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It's just unavoidable.
Surprisingly, using paper and pencil might work better as there would be less doubt if the data is valid (since you wrote it).

And since there's no good solution, and we're talking about very old lenses... sorry!
01-09-2018, 11:52 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
It's unavoidable only for those who are incapable.

---------- Post added 01-09-18 at 01:35 PM ----------



So the solution is limit the user to ƒ-- in camera combined with using a pad and pencil to record the ƒ stop for every image captured.
Oh please. You already know the answer to this.

After people started getting wrong numbers written to EXIF (and you know this is inevitable), there would be some sort of demand to have the camera somehow track changes in aperture value so that the user could be reminded to re enter their aperture information. Perhaps you would also like a screen overlay warning you to ensure the information entered is correct, and having to press the OK button to get past it prior to being able to release the shutter?
That would be about the only way to do it given the state of the cameras.
At some point, one needs to recognize the reasonable limits of the equipment they are using and live with it.
The "feature" in question provides no practical use, would be very difficult to implement without a total rewrite of the firmware, and would cause more problems than the zero problems it would solve.
Yes, the pen and paper combined with an EXIF writing tool in post processing is the better solution if it's that important to you. As I said earlier, I don't understand this particular fetish, so I might be missing something of planet shattering importance, though I doubt it.

Now, if you asked for a return of the aperture simulator lever in future cameras, I would be in agreement, as this would allow the camera to track aperture, would allow proper open aperture metering rather than the green button pseudo automatic kludge, and as a bonus, would allow aperture preferred automatic at the very least, and if the engineers are clever, also shutter preferred auto and full programmed auto in addition to real metered manual exposure, and would allow the camera to write the aperture to the EXIF.
01-09-2018, 12:18 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Oh please. You already know the answer to this.

After people started getting wrong numbers written to EXIF (and you know this is inevitable), there would be some sort of demand to have the camera somehow track changes in aperture value so that the user could be reminded to re enter their aperture information. Perhaps you would also like a screen overlay warning you to ensure the information entered is correct, and having to press the OK button to get past it prior to being able to release the shutter?
That would be about the only way to do it given the state of the cameras.
At some point, one needs to recognize the reasonable limits of the equipment they are using and live with it.
The "feature" in question provides no practical use, would be very difficult to implement without a total rewrite of the firmware, and would cause more problems than the zero problems it would solve.
Yes, the pen and paper combined with an EXIF writing tool in post processing is the better solution if it's that important to you. As I said earlier, I don't understand this particular fetish, so I might be missing something of planet shattering importance, though I doubt it.

Now, if you asked for a return of the aperture simulator lever in future cameras, I would be in agreement, as this would allow the camera to track aperture, would allow proper open aperture metering rather than the green button pseudo automatic kludge, and as a bonus, would allow aperture preferred automatic at the very least, and if the engineers are clever, also shutter preferred auto and full programmed auto in addition to real metered manual exposure, and would allow the camera to write the aperture to the EXIF.
To be devils advocate - how would adding "n" value (controlled with a wheel) instead of "--" require for a complete rewrite of the firmware?

Not a feature I'd think of as essential, but I only have few lenses that could use it, and I don't use them a whole lot, so maybe it won't be aimed at me. I won't be writing things down on paper, that's for sure.
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