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01-09-2018, 12:22 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's just unavoidable.
Surprisingly, using paper and pencil might work better as there would be less doubt if the data is valid (since you wrote it).

And since there's no good solution, and we're talking about very old lenses... sorry!
I have already suggested good simple solutions to being stuck with --.

I have faith in the end user to have the cognitive skills to be able to turn the front or back wheel to record the stop when non A lenses are used.

Apparently for you Kunizite the end user is just unavoidably stupid to even be given the choice.

---------- Post added 01-09-18 at 02:27 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Oh please. You already know the answer to this.

After people started getting wrong numbers written to EXIF (and you know this is inevitable), there would be some sort of demand to have the camera somehow track changes in aperture value so that the user could be reminded to re enter their aperture information. Perhaps you would also like a screen overlay warning you to ensure the information entered is correct, and having to press the OK button to get past it prior to being able to release the shutter?
That would be about the only way to do it given the state of the cameras.
At some point, one needs to recognize the reasonable limits of the equipment they are using and live with it.
The "feature" in question provides no practical use, would be very difficult to implement without a total rewrite of the firmware, and would cause more problems than the zero problems it would solve.
Yes, the pen and paper combined with an EXIF writing tool in post processing is the better solution if it's that important to you. As I said earlier, I don't understand this particular fetish, so I might be missing something of planet shattering importance, though I doubt it.

Now, if you asked for a return of the aperture simulator lever in future cameras, I would be in agreement, as this would allow the camera to track aperture, would allow proper open aperture metering rather than the green button pseudo automatic kludge, and as a bonus, would allow aperture preferred automatic at the very least, and if the engineers are clever, also shutter preferred auto and full programmed auto in addition to real metered manual exposure, and would allow the camera to write the aperture to the EXIF.
Wheatfiled you are making this all to complicated. I am just suggesting a simple thing that has nothing to do with anything you just posted.

01-09-2018, 12:49 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
I have faith in the end user to have the cognitive skills to be able to turn the front or back wheel to record the ƒ stop when non A lenses are used.
I guess the issue divides photographers into those who would desire to record the aperture values and those who don't. I would certainly use a feature to record the aperture value directly into the image file (i.e., EXIF). I use several Takumar, Pentax K and Pentax M lenses.

My current technique:
- carry a small field pad and pencil in my pocket
- prior to the photo session, write the list of expected file/image numbers in columns
- for each shot, free my hands from the camera; take out the pad and pencil; record the aperture (and remember to do this procedure; sometimes I forget)
- periodically re-synchronize my written record to the actual image shot numbers (to recover for when I've forgotten to write an aperture)
- put away the pad
- take the camera in hand again
- at home, use Exiftool to record the aperture value.

It works, but it's cumbersome. A built-in function in the camera would be great, if it would be relatively easy to use. I'd be happy with perhaps a couple of button pushes and a control dial rotation.

- Craig
01-09-2018, 12:49 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
To be devils advocate - how would adding "n" value (controlled with a wheel) instead of "--" require for a complete rewrite of the firmware?

Not a feature I'd think of as essential, but I only have few lenses that could use it, and I don't use them a whole lot, so maybe it won't be aimed at me. I won't be writing things down on paper, that's for sure.
I don't think this would be quite as simple as it's made out to be.
01-09-2018, 12:56 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
As I said earlier, I don't understand this particular fetish, so I might be missing something of planet shattering importance, though I doubt it.


I like to have a record of the primary settings for my images - aperture, shutter speed, ISO, etc. Among other reasons, it helps me to learn better exposures and to understand the qualities of my lenses.

01-09-2018, 12:56 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
I have already suggested good simple solutions to being stuck with --.

I have faith in the end user to have the cognitive skills to be able to turn the front or back wheel to record the stop when non A lenses are used.

Apparently for you Kunizite the end user is just unavoidably stupid to even be given the choice.

---------- Post added 01-09-18 at 02:27 PM ----------



Wheatfiled you are making this all to complicated. I am just suggesting a simple thing that has nothing to do with anything you just posted.
Actually, it has everything to do with what you posted. As soon as you implement a feature that has the possibility of user error, user error is going to creep in. People will forget to change the aperture value in EXIF unless the camera reminds them to do it. This means putting another impediment in front of taking a picture, because you can bet your sweet bippy that the first time a person gets a deep DOF picture back that says it was shot at f/2, he's going to be asking some Pentax engineer to fall on his sword for it.

What would be simpler, and something I am all in favour of, is putting the aperture cam follower back into the lens mount. It would answer your concern, as well as adding some very useful functions back into the mount.
01-09-2018, 01:06 PM - 1 Like   #111
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I recall someone in Ricoh saying they'd looked at restoring the aperture cam follower, but there was a technical reason that prevented it, though I can't recall the detail. They could always bring back the Judas window, of course, to give a constant reminder of the setting – replacing it with a tiny camera attached to OCR firmware would be a wonderfully complicated way of getting the aperture setting into the EXIF data, but I doubt that's going to happen, either.
01-09-2018, 01:30 PM   #112
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I don't think it's a bad idea. Just have a setting that you can turn on and off. On if you want to record the aperture and off if you don't. You just have the rear dial set what aperture is recorded (obviously it won't actually do anything). It really isn't a big deal if users "screw it up" since the camera isn't actually using the recorded aperture to make decisions on exposure, it would just be so the exif would be more accurate after the fact. It would be fine to put in warnings about Pentax not being liable if you forget to change the recorded aperture when you shifted the aperture ring.

It isn't a big deal to me since I don't use manual lenses, but I can see how it would be handy for those who do and I don't think it would add that much complexity.
01-09-2018, 03:08 PM   #113
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It could be as simple as this: For each shot the aperture value is displayed as "--". As soon as you turn the aperture wheel one click, the last used setting is shown. If you've changed the aperture, you turn the wheel to the correct aperture value, if you haven't, you leave the value as it is. For the next shot the shown value is reverted to "--".

This way you can choose if you want to record the aperture or not. Shooting with M, K and M42 lenses is anyway a slower process than shooting with newer lenses, so this routine doesn't add much to an already 'cumbersome' way of shooting IMHO.

01-09-2018, 03:21 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
To be devils advocate - how would adding "n" value (controlled with a wheel) instead of "--" require for a complete rewrite of the firmware?

Not a feature I'd think of as essential, but I only have few lenses that could use it, and I don't use them a whole lot, so maybe it won't be aimed at me. I won't be writing things down on paper, that's for sure.
precisely what i was thinking... should be simple in f/w.
01-09-2018, 03:44 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
And what does that have to do with the new firmware for K-1?
As much as any post in this thread ... or come to that the thread itself.
01-10-2018, 09:19 AM - 1 Like   #116
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I use manual lens a lot. While it would be nice to be able to enter the aperture value, I think it would be even more useful to be able to enter the exact lens focal length. For example 21mm instead of 20 or 25mm instead of 24. it would allow me to know if I have used my Distagon 21mm or my Pentax K 20mm for a given image(yeah, the Pentax K20 is that good!) Seems like that would be a pretty simple firmware fix.
.
01-10-2018, 10:03 AM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by sibyrnes Quote
I use manual lens a lot. While it would be nice to be able to enter the aperture value, I think it would be even more useful to be able to enter the exact lens focal length. For example 21mm instead of 20 or 25mm instead of 24. it would allow me to know if I have used my Distagon 21mm or my Pentax K 20mm for a given image(yeah, the Pentax K20 is that good!) Seems like that would be a pretty simple firmware fix.
.
Yeah, but it would be annoying if the list of focal length contained every mm between 0 and 1000.
It would take some time to scroll down to 800mm if using a manual lens with 2x TC.

Then it would be better to be able to enter a custom list of say 10 lenses that could be selected on top of the standard focal lengths.
If entering custom values it would also be good if we could enter the exact name of the lens, not only focal length.

But things like this will not happen, as support for old manual lenses is already sufficient.

Last edited by Fogel70; 01-10-2018 at 10:38 AM.
01-10-2018, 10:57 AM - 4 Likes   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
^^^^^This^^^^^
FileNbr >> Chest Pocket Spiral Notebook* >> ExifTool

* OldFilmGuy - using manual lenses is slow work anyway. Use Paper & Pencil. It’s pretty basic.
  1. IF NotHungry
  2. THEN DO SETAPERTURE
  3. ELSE GOTO=12
  4. SUB GreenButtonMeter OR DoFLeverMeter
  5. ENDSUB
  6. RETURN=STORVAL (Write Down FileNbr, Lens and Aperture)
  7. DO IMAGECAPTURE
  8. IF LightNotChanged
  9. THEN GOTO=7
  10. ELSE GOTO=1
  11. ENDELSE
  12. IF LightNotGood GOTO=15
  13. ELSE GOTO=1 (KeepShooting)
  14. ENDELSE
  15. END DO

Last edited by monochrome; 01-10-2018 at 06:26 PM.
01-14-2018, 06:08 AM - 2 Likes   #119
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Im one of those folks who would find it handy to put an aperture in the exif at the camera.

But Im also one of those folks who would forget and wonder why my DOF is so different from expected. I already have lots of photos with incorrect focal length in exif from switching lenses without switching focal length.

But I would like the feature and understand that its accuracy would depend entirely on my keeping track of it...

-Eric
01-14-2018, 07:28 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
Im one of those folks who would find it handy to put an aperture in the exif at the camera.

But Im also one of those folks who would forget and wonder why my DOF is so different from expected. I already have lots of photos with incorrect focal length in exif from switching lenses without switching focal length.

But I would like the feature and understand that its accuracy would depend entirely on my keeping track of it...

-Eric
As long as it is the camera asking for aperture after the shot AND will just do as of now if nothing is dialed (meaning not preventing any other shot to be taken) there's very few to lose for those who don't care (and whole thing could be disabled of course).
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