[photoptimist]

gosh... wtf? still dont understand why:

a) turning one dial around until it is in the right position
b) then selecting the ISO with an extra dial
should be any faster or more "tactile" than to


a) just hold the iso button on top of the cam with the index finger and turning the "rear e-dial" in one move only... pls explain...
I think you are making wrong assumptions because you just dont know the ISO button on the old flagships, since you own a K-30...

Why is because your method number #2 really is:

2a) remove index finger from shutter button
2b) press-and-hold ISO button
2c) spin rear wheel with thumb to change ISO
2d) return index finger to shutter button

Moreover, I almost always leave the control dial set to "ISO" so I avoid your step #1a. Thus, I can control ISO with my thumb without moving my index finger back and forth.

I used to use the ISO button method on the K-5 but vastly prefer the K-1's approach.

The smaller top display rarely bothers me -- it's only useful if the camera is on a tripod that is set below eye level which is very rare for me.

P.S. I love the lunar lander tilty screen. It's superb for over-the-head landscape and portrait orientation shots. Those can be essential in crowds, for over the railing shots, and also shots in museums that avoid glare from the ceiling-mounted lights.

[reh321]

KP?...adequate for what?

Some members here, including me, suggested that Pentax originally planned to have a three camera family: K-70, KP, K-1 ..... and committed to a K-3 replacement only after hearing all the complaining from users; this theory is one of those explaining why they could be running out of K-3ii inventory before the replacement is ready. Every time we talk about the K-3 replacement, someone seems to feel that it is necessary to explain yet again why none of the three adequately replaces the K-3.

[reh321]

And no offense here, but: People who praise that wheel-cluster-design the most, often seem to not even own or use a K-1.

and, no offense here, but people who criticize EVF the most often seem to not even own or use a MILC.

Discussions here would be boring, and uninformative, if only those who own the capability in question participated.

[surfar]

Some members here, including me, suggested that Pentax originally planned to have a three camera family:

Well that may well happen...KP level may become entry level?...the 70 number series may disappear.FF will remain of course.

Apsc dual card model has to be included,the silence on this is the big Q.Lets hope theres some news b4 PhotoK is over.

[reh321]

the silence on this is the big Q.Lets hope theres some news b4 PhotoK is over.

Based on how the GRRRR is designed, furthering the "Q" would be wasted effort - it would need an EVF to be of any value.

My only hope remaining for this week is that they might use interviews to drop some {planned} hint.

[surfar]

My only hope remaining for this week is that they might use interviews to drop some {planned} hint.

It would be a smart move to issue a development statement but dont hold your breath.

[H.Abendsen]

Why is because your method number #2 really is:

2a) remove index finger from shutter button

Moreover, I almost always leave the control dial set to "ISO" so I avoid your step....
...
P.S. I love the lunar lander tilty screen. It's superb for ???

I already said I will not response to any answers especially not to answers with far-fetched comparisons - but your logic is giving me goosebumps, so I gotta ask: "optimist":
did you already realize that you have to lift your fingers anyway to make settings? It's that turning around and indexing from one wheel to another... That doesn't make ANY sense.
And if you leave it on the ISO SETTING. What good for is it to have one more additional wheel?
Why not just one ISO-wheel?
IMHO your method makes all the other functionalities of those 2(in words:TWO) wheels even more redundant. But OK. Everybody to their liking...
At least I am happy to see that Panasonic really seems to be closely related to PENTAX because their display mechanism doesn't make any sense either.
It (only partly) swings out to the direct opposite position where you would need it... ROFL...
bwahahahaaa...
No sense in that either. But still only a little Fauxpas compared to the moonlander+whacky wheels.
I sincerely hope one day we will see a simple tilt&swivel like on the k-70 on other PENTAX's too.

[reh321]

I sincerely hope one day we will see a simple tilt&swivel like on the k-70 on other PENTAX's too.

An articulated screen such as the K-70 has is loved by videographers, but not so much by those of us who take still photos. I did have one of those at one time, and I hated it. By sticking out to the side, it advertised its presence, while a flippy screen stays discretely behind the camera ..... important to those of us trying to discretely take photos with no reaction from the subjects

[H.Abendsen]

And believe me, I really don't care if they keep the wheels or not.

I will not use them. But even if they keep it, I would love to have a more informative shoulder display because I am used to switching off main-lcd(no sense in chimping... the shot you took ..you already have it in your camera anyway)
And honestly: I very often hold the camera in my hands so I don't see a problem reading the info of it.


But one thing I would really love to see on upcoming cameras from Pentax: the thumbstick.

Because I don't see any other way than fiddling around with: set-point-button - 4way and then again - set-point-button(to get back original 4way funct.)

But maybe optimist has a brilliant solution...
Is there a Mind-Power-Af setting on your beloved Multi-WHEEL system?
(Which you actually don't touch for anything else than changing ISO...)
If so, just let me know.
But I guess we only will read how you don't change the focus at all, are manually focussing ALL THE TIME... or panfocusing, if not only use a pinhole lens.

[yorik]

An articulated screen such as the K-70 has is loved by videographers, but not so much by those of us who take still photos. I did have one of those at one time, and I hated it. By sticking out to the side, it advertised its presence, while a flippy screen stays discretely behind the camera ..... important to those of us trying to discretely take photos with no reaction from the subjects

From the point of view of using the flippy screen, I also prefer the simple flip up and down versions. The articulated versions do have one significant advantage however (at least in my experience), namely that you can flip them around with the screen facing in. This both protects the screen and prevents me from reflexively chimping every single shot I take. I have both the GX7 and GX8, and I use the screen on the GX7 a lot more than the one on the GX8 which is facing in 90% of the time. (My Pentax cameras don't have flippy screens.)

[jbinpg]

I guess you don't do any cold weather outside shooting. Then the wisdom of the 3rd control wheel and the rotary controls takes hold when operating with gloves on.

[H.Abendsen]

An articulated screen such as the K-70 has is loved by videographers, but not so much by those of us who take still photos. I did have one of those at one time, and I hated it. By sticking out to the side, it advertised its presence, while a flippy screen stays discretely behind the camera ..... important to those of us trying to discretely take photos with no reaction from the subjects

That also sounds very far fetched to me ... if you don't know how to act, your subjects will notice you anyway. No matter how your display is moving. Especially with such a big camera.
But there would be a very very easy solution (mechanism) to have the best of both worlds...

If you ask me, it's pretty easy and nowhere near difficult and no kind of Moebius Ring paradox is needed to build a mechanism that offers you the best of both worlds.
Actually Panasonic designers came pretty close to the optimal solution...
But it seems the Pana-Designers had just half
a gram of cocaine too much and ended up in some "the-boss-is-watchin-i-have-to-pretend-i-am-intelligent"-paranoia;
What in the end messed up their original intent to make the perfect spread between the classical "tilt only" and a "tilt'n'swivel" display.
It's like the 9-point problem... There would be more solutions to it.
But neither Panasonics(S1R)nor Pentaxs(K-1) solution seem to work out, while I feel Pentax did much better with the display.(because it's more stable whilst crippled the very same way)

S1R has the right attempt in a logical way but fails at delivering it and it also doesn't look very stable or rugged either.

If I don't get kicked out of here, I will post a small sketch how I think it would work...
Let's all just hope that PENTAX R&D sees it first; Because I still feel: looking at the S1R, Panasonic R&D maybe reads pentaxforums more often than Pentax(Ricoh-Imaging) R&D does...

[reh321]

That also sounds very far fetched to me ... if you don't know how to act, your subjects will notice you anyway. No matter how your display is moving. Especially with such a big camera.

Have you tried it???
The way my brother taught me to do it, I seem to be looking at top of camera, casually making basic adjustments, if I'm looking down at the camera at waist level.
Much different from holding the camera so I can see a screen on the back or looking through the view-finder.

[H.Abendsen]

I guess you don't do any cold weather outside shooting. Then the wisdom of the 3rd control wheel and the rotary controls takes hold when operating with gloves on.

I render that a fantasy of a true fan. I admire your efforts really, but face it, with thick gloves it would be even more difficult to set the wheels to the correct Position.
A nice little tip for all the "Winter-Pros" >>
I prefer mid-thickness plumbers gloves when it's cold and/or snowy outside...
The ones I use, have that pimple-rubber coating. Which gives you quite a grip.
With those my hands keep warm and I can handle the camera just as I would with bare hands.
When it's really cold you can additionally put fingerless biker gloves on also.
That solution is very sufficient to me , because usually I don't climb, do skiing or flic-flac around on a snowy surface whilst hand holding a 2000 bucks camera with a 1000bucks lens mounted on it.

[MarkJerling]

gosh... wtf? still dont understand why:

a) turning one dial around until it is in the right position
b) then selecting the ISO with an extra dial
should be any faster or more "tactile" than to


a) just hold the iso button on top of the cam with the index finger and turning the "rear e-dial" in one move only... pls explain...
I think you are making wrong assumptions because you just dont know the ISO button on the old flagships, since you own a K-30...

Its OK if some think, that those wheels make sense, especially if they never read the manual of a K-7/K-5 or used another (DIGITAL) PENTAX flagship camera onwards from the K-7 era.
..
But from my point of view, it is a fact that we had the most easiest cleanest design on DSLRs when PENTAX introduced the K-7
and all the bodies afterwards up to the K-3 kept that and offered that beautiful uncluttered design.
Everything on those cameras made perfect sense... (K-7 | K-5 | K-5II | K-)
Despite selecting the focus point, you were able to make lightning fast adjustments to ANY of your settings, given you read your manual.

And despite some incy wincy details, like the AF-Button BigMackCam mentioned before or the lever(left instead of right) direction, I dared to note in some former post. - but those are things not worth mentionin...

but i read and heard from a lot of people by now, that those wheels dont really please them and they find em distracting...

Mostly (semi-)professional people who own a K-1 or already rented one... would give both wheels
(and maybe the first segment of their lefthand little-finger)

for having a thumbstick instead with which they could easily select the desired focus-point(/area). bet something on that.

And no offense here, but: People who praise that wheel-cluster-design the most, often seem to not even own or use a K-1.

- yes i used it for street, portrait, etc...
and even though i just hopped in and registered, i know the forum very well already, so it seems to me that some members would also praise the K-1 even if it had a colorchanging glowing ping-pong ball instead of an info display and 4 more wheels.

people have been arguing in here about that before.. i read that. what happened to them?
I guess kicked out in favor of some forum-behemoths... so i wont comment on this issue any further, no matter what you will answer, jatrax...sry.

You've taken a position and now you appear to want to defend that position to the end.

OK, I'll play. I shot a K-5 from 2012 to just the other day. Then, thanks to Adam's generosity, I got to experience the K-1ii.

On the K-5, to select AF points, was relatively easy. On the K-1ii, it's as easy. Push AF mode button with the left index finger and spin the front wheel to toggle between AF.S and AF.C, or the rear wheel to select the different AF point options, using the four way controller, as on the K-5 to move to a specific AF point. For someone coming from a K-5, this is a very easy and intuitive solution. No thumbstick needed or wanted by this user.

How often do I look at the top display? Very seldom is the answer. So, do those two wheels help or hinder? For the ISO setting and the EV compensation I don't need it, as I'm used to the location of those two buttons - same as the K-5.

So, how about the rest?
CH/CL---Very handy to quickly change from single frame shooting to continuous. Pretty nice to get to that without delving into the menus.
BKT-------Very handy for choosing between bracketing and single frame shooting. Pretty nice to get to that without delving into the menus.
HDR------Perfect for HDR shooting. Pretty nice to get to that without delving into the menus.
Grid-------As I like the grid lines in the viewfinder, I don't see the need to turn these on or off. So, a bit of a wasted button position for me.
SR--------Shake Reduction on or off. Pretty nice to get to that without delving into the menus.
Crop-----Don't need it.
Wi-Fi----Brilliant. Real nice to get to that without delving into the menus.

If I had to pick between having the wheels or not having the wheels, and having a bigger display as per the K-5. Tough choice really. I feel there could have been a hybrid option that has not been explored where, upon turning the Smart Function Dial, the rear wheel (coloured red in my indicative sketch below) automatically takes the function of the secondary wheel. This would give space for a larger display screen up top and would look quite nice in my view.