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10-13-2018, 08:56 AM - 2 Likes   #2011
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Both of you are mean to this armchair expert.

10-13-2018, 09:54 AM   #2012
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Both of you are mean to this armchair expert.
One guy has some good ideas and makes some pretty decent points for Pentax to possibly shoot for, and with the fact using an existing body with new internals would more than likely be cheaper than a ground up new camera.

The other guy is your typical keyboard warrior who likes to play his hard hand and make other members feel less than him by pretending to know just how much said upgrades will actually be.

On the other hand.... it's not just empty talk, he has the pinnacle of the photo world.....the DFA 50 to drive his point home
10-13-2018, 10:13 AM   #2013
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We're thankful that you're guarding this forum against people like me, then
A more careful reading of my arguments would be highly recommended, however, as you didn't quite get my point.
10-13-2018, 05:35 PM   #2014
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Nah, I had to bleach my eyes and literally lost an IQ point the first time I read it.
Thank you for the offer though.

10-13-2018, 11:16 PM - 8 Likes   #2015
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How about we cut the snide comments please?
10-14-2018, 07:30 AM - 1 Like   #2016
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Hmm... Replicating the decades of R&D and millions of dollars that Canikon have put into fast class-leading AF would hardly be a minor investment. Faster wifi, faster USB, and a deeper buffer all require more expensive chips and more battery power.

As much as I'd love all these updates, too, most are neither minor nor cheap.
Yes, all the changes would entail both new hardware and the software/firmware to support it. We (high tech consumer goods manufacturer) used to estimate 3 fully developed and tested (including regression testing) lines of code per software engineer per day. That's a lot of people hours for the amount of code this would take. So, plenty of time and money would be needed, above and beyond the hardware development and costs, even if off the shelf parts were available.
10-14-2018, 08:11 AM - 1 Like   #2017
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To be clear, I hope they are doing it. Well, I'm not demanding leading AF performance - that would be unreasonable - but a significant step forward would be nice. Besides performance, Pentax gives me everything I'd want.
And I'm willing to support their efforts with my wallet.
10-14-2018, 08:33 AM - 3 Likes   #2018
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QuoteOriginally posted by lsimpkins Quote
Yes, all the changes would entail both new hardware and the software/firmware to support it. We (high tech consumer goods manufacturer) used to estimate 3 fully developed and tested (including regression testing) lines of code per software engineer per day. That's a lot of people hours for the amount of code this would take. So, plenty of time and money would be needed, above and beyond the hardware development and costs, even if off the shelf parts were available.
Exactly! There's almost nothing in a DSLR's AF system that is off-the-shelf: the optics, aperture mask, and PDAF sensor are all custom designed.

Rudimentary AF software could be created by any decent engineering student but it would be slow, not very accurate, and likely to be confused by complex scenes. Class-leading AF software that tracks moving objects against a moving background is orders of magnitude harder. And any AF involving tracking requires coordination with the software running the electromechanical controls of the lens motor system with both a feedback loop (to check focus) and a feedforward loop (to predict how Af changes are changing the AF systems). In tracking scenarios: the scene is moving, the lens motor is moving, and the sensor is getting new data all at the same time. The software needs to be written to compensate/predict for the fact that the system is using old data at every instant in time and trying to predict how the last command to the lens will affect the next sample of data in the context of an estimated mathematical of subject motion. It requires some really heavy math in signal processing and control theory to get this right.

10-14-2018, 08:35 AM - 1 Like   #2019
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
To be clear, I hope they are doing it. Well, I'm not demanding leading AF performance - that would be unreasonable - but a significant step forward would be nice. Besides performance, Pentax gives me everything I'd want.
And I'm willing to support their efforts with my wallet.

I agree, I'm not expecting a D500 killer from Pentax, I shoot all types of sports with a well beaten K3 and my keeper rate is pretty decent but an upgrade to better AF will always be welcomed. I only hope when they do release a new crop body that they don't stray too far from the K3 design, for me the K3 with the grip fits like a glove.
10-14-2018, 08:44 AM   #2020
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The fact remains that changes are needed to move forward. AF needs an overhaul at the very least. I shy away from ad hominem, I would much rather see a point addressed with logic and sticking to the subject. Why attack a persons character, it adds nothing to the conversation and definitely moves a conversation towards the negative meter.
10-14-2018, 09:34 AM   #2021
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A Nikon D7200 or 7Dii equivalent is more than enough (though they are 2-3 years old)
10-14-2018, 10:04 AM   #2022
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QuoteOriginally posted by alcstudios Quote
I agree, I'm not expecting a D500 killer from Pentax, I shoot all types of sports with a well beaten K3 and my keeper rate is pretty decent but an upgrade to better AF will always be welcomed. I only hope when they do release a new crop body that they don't stray too far from the K3 design, for me the K3 with the grip fits like a glove.
I agree with you and the post you quoted but as I get older (and I'm still in my 40's!) I am starting to need more assistance from the technology so better auto focus is becoming more important to me as my eyes are deteriorating (which seems to be happening at an alarming rate!!).

Although I've looked at other brands in the past there has never been a big enough reason to move, but since Sony's announcement that their eye AF will work on animals in the near future (most of my shots are pets) that does seem a big draw. I'm not expecting that from Pentax, but I would like them to be as good as the Nikons from 5 years ago.
10-14-2018, 10:14 AM   #2023
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QuoteOriginally posted by kevinWE Quote
The fact remains that changes are needed to move forward. AF needs an overhaul at the very least. I shy away from ad hominem, I would much rather see a point addressed with logic and sticking to the subject. Why attack a persons character, it adds nothing to the conversation and definitely moves a conversation towards the negative meter.
Ultimately, I think K3iii was only promised because we demanded it. From a business point of view 36MP K1 top end FF and 24MP KP APS-C with decent spec set is fine for Pentax brand. A high-end APS-C would not be designed for size or price, but for speed. It will be interesting what we will get - hopefully the lenses and AF engines will keep up.
Theta sells and was upgraded, GR sells and was upgraded, FF was developed and runs well I assume - lenses on the road map, APS-C has been demanded and it makes sense to present a speed camera - nice to have - but I am afraid how resources will be allocated between FF/APS-C/645 in the future.
10-14-2018, 10:42 AM - 1 Like   #2024
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QuoteOriginally posted by woodworm Quote
I agree with you and the post you quoted but as I get older (and I'm still in my 40's!) I am starting to need more assistance from the technology so better auto focus is becoming more important to me as my eyes are deteriorating (which seems to be happening at an alarming rate!!).

Although I've looked at other brands in the past there has never been a big enough reason to move, but since Sony's announcement that their eye AF will work on animals in the near future (most of my shots are pets) that does seem a big draw. I'm not expecting that from Pentax, but I would like them to be as good as the Nikons from 5 years ago.

I just turned 51 and the old eye sight is getting a little fuzzy, I do shoot some animals for some of the local rescues but my main focus is motocross, I can't race anymore due to a kidney transplant so I took up photographing it instead...… Ok, I'm going to the dark side for just a minute, I met a guy at a local race a few weeks ago and I was able to shoot his gripped D500 with the Nikon 70-200 2.8 for a couple of hours, once I got the hang of it I felt like I was cheating, that thing is a beast, I believe it could literally track a fly in flight, It would be the only camera that at this point would be able to draw me away from Pentax, I started with a K10 back in 08 so I've been here a while, I have chosen to never make this statement before because all I would get is a "Bye" "see ya if you think Nikon is better" "don't let the door hit ya" ect ect.


The D500 set up I was shooting with is a tad over 5 grand, I'm going to wait and see if Pentax can improve AF and by how much, I may eventually go to the dark side but I prefer to stay were I'm at.

---------- Post added 10-14-18 at 10:58 AM ----------

Can't no one tell me I'm not dedicated to the brand, I have even made my own sweat towels (it's hot in Texas). I do get some noses turned up to me by the Canon/Nikon shooters but I could care less what most of them think, I'm proud to shoot a Pentax. I haven't made any shirts just yet.... maybe I should buy a PF forum shirt
10-14-2018, 11:38 AM - 1 Like   #2025
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QuoteOriginally posted by alcstudios Quote
... I may eventually go to the dark side but I prefer to stay were I'm at.
...
I have even made my own sweat towels...
I would also say, just pack the D500 in a PENTAX towel and lets go.
no honestly... They should really do something about AF performance... a vast improvement. Like 100+ af points. way more widespread.
Especially since their blatant bravado in some interview 2 years ago or so, when they(Ricoh-Reps) brazenly stated that "We will build the best AF on the market."

ahem... we are still waitin.


And setting up a competitor to the D500(hopefully with tiltnswivel-display) in APS-C land at first ... may be the best move they could make.

They could reuse the AF-module and what they learned from building it in many more cameras... that is an investment that would certainly pay off and prevent many DSLR-newbies that at first bought a PENTAX and want to step up


24mp instead of 20mp... and in combination with more capable PLM or ring-drive-sdm lenses coming to the market,

it may be an argument for many to even leave Nikon.


... but to me it more and more seems its more like RICOH shareholders that also own even more Nikon shares just say: "No, PENTAX cameras have to stay niche-market."
I mean the upcoming Panasonic S1R is rumoured to get 8K by a firmware update later on... and already offers 4k(over the full frame) at 60p when it hits the shelves.

And at Ricoh-Imaging... They are clapping their hands like a mon-chichi when they raise the bitrate for FHD-video a bit and FINALLY!!! ... finally, offer 60p instead of 60i FHD...
*snore*

---------- Post added 10-14-18 at 11:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If it's so easy, do it yourself.

If i would win in the lottery its very likely that I WILL hire a team of hackers,

which will find a way for me to hook up pentax apert. and af-protocols to nikon camera electronics... After thats done...

I will tell them to pack the innards of a D850 incl. PENTAX K-mount into a PENTAX K-1 body without those fre.. wheels, but instead a nice oled shoulder-display.
and a thumbstick ... or at least move that darn "Change AF Point"-button to the shoulder next to the ISO-button...

and after that is done, i would tell them to build a camera exactly like MERV-O wished for...
After building 10 bodies each, I maybe would sell the whole circus to zenit who would make loads of money with it.



but since its very unlikely that i will win in the lottery, i think MERV-O is absolutely right and RICOH should feather its own nest, instead of "sinking with flying colors"...
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