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09-06-2018, 07:58 AM - 1 Like   #1081
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mark Ransom Quote
Yes, the K-3 replacement was FF - it was the K-1.
I'm sorry but this smells BS to me.

09-06-2018, 08:04 AM   #1082
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I'm sorry but this smells BS to me.
People are too suspicious here.
Pentax may not have realized that APS has become a thing of its own - that FF can replace only if it has same pixel density on sensor - but they are not malevolent.
09-06-2018, 09:54 AM   #1083
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
People are too suspicious here.
Pentax may not have realized that APS has become a thing of its own - that FF can replace only if it has same pixel density on sensor - but they are not malevolent.
Im with @thibs on this it has an aroma of BS.

Wonder why, with all the "factual" suppositions being spread in several threads here on Pentax Forums its no wonder people are suspicious. No one who is posting all of this as fact actually knows any more about the collective thinking of Ricoh Pentax than anyone else. To actually believe that Ricoh Pentax planned to not develop a higher end APS-C camera and abandon all those K-5 through K-3II shooters and provide with a less than "top shelf" replacement makes no sense what so ever. Please give us some insight with "fact" not supposition as to why a few members think Ricoh Pentax was considering not bringing out a K-3/K-3II replacement what ever it will be called. I've read the Pentax executive interview so don't bother giving an interpretation of of the interview.
09-06-2018, 10:05 AM   #1084
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Im with @thibs on this it has an aroma of BS.

Wonder why, with all the "factual" suppositions being spread in several threads here on Pentax Forums its no wonder people are suspicious. No one who is posting all of this as fact actually knows any more about the collective thinking of Ricoh Pentax than anyone else. To actually believe that Ricoh Pentax planned to not develop a higher end APS-C camera and abandon all those K-5 through K-3II shooters and provide with a less than "top shelf" replacement makes no sense what so ever. Please give us some insight with "fact" not supposition as to why a few members think Ricoh Pentax was considering not bringing out a K-3/K-3II replacement what ever it will be called. I've read the Pentax executive interview so don't bother giving an interpretation of of the interview.
I've already provided my reasoning. The only other alternative I can think of is incompetence, and I don't believe that.
If you can come up with another explanation - I would love to hear it.

09-06-2018, 10:23 AM   #1085
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Is incompetence truly the only alternative, or you're saying this just to make the other thing appear valid?

There is nothing to indicate that Ricoh Imaging planned to kill their high-end APS-C line; and I was paying attention. There is nothing to indicate that they ever saw the K-1 as a high-end APS-C replacement (especially as the K-1 doesn't have the K-3's speed).
09-06-2018, 10:27 AM - 1 Like   #1086
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I've already provided my reasoning. The only other alternative I can think of is incompetence, and I don't believe that.
If you can come up with another explanation - I would love to hear it.
I reject incompetence. I also reject the notion that Ricoh Pentax planned that the K-1 was the APS-C flagship. My expert guess is that they will get it finished soon, I'm willing to wait.

Maybe you should go on and buy the KP since its what you have said you are going to buy cause if its the APS-C flagship there won't be many price reductions anytime soon.
09-06-2018, 10:28 AM   #1087
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Is incompetence truly the only alternative, or you're saying this just to make the other thing appear valid?

There is nothing to indicate that Ricoh Imaging planned to kill their high-end APS-C line; and I was paying attention. There is nothing to indicate that they ever saw the K-1 as a high-end APS-C replacement (especially as the K-1 doesn't have the K-3's speed).
I totally agree!! You said it much better that I could have!

09-06-2018, 10:33 AM   #1088
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
I reject incompetence. I also reject the notion that Ricoh Pentax planned that the K-1 was the APS-C flagship. My expert guess is that they will get it finished soon, I'm willing to wait.
So why have they allowed inventory levels to fall to almost zero? That is what is freaking people out - that and the very long wait for a K-3 replacement when Pentax has issued two 2 K-1 variants.
I am perfectly willing to purchase nothing.
I don't have to spend money.
I'm having a great time just taking photographs.

Last edited by reh321; 09-06-2018 at 10:39 AM.
09-06-2018, 10:53 AM - 1 Like   #1089
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Im with @thibs on this it has an aroma of BS.

Wonder why, with all the "factual" suppositions being spread in several threads here on Pentax Forums its no wonder people are suspicious. No one who is posting all of this as fact actually knows any more about the collective thinking of Ricoh Pentax than anyone else. To actually believe that Ricoh Pentax planned to not develop a higher end APS-C camera and abandon all those K-5 through K-3II shooters and provide with a less than "top shelf" replacement makes no sense what so ever. Please give us some insight with "fact" not supposition as to why a few members think Ricoh Pentax was considering not bringing out a K-3/K-3II replacement what ever it will be called. I've read the Pentax executive interview so don't bother giving an interpretation of of the interview.
The K-5 was introduced in 2010, the K-3 was introduced in 2013. That means the K-3 replacement was due about 2016, right? What flagship camera came out that year?

I've read those interviews too. They were very careful to choose words that did not imply they were actively working on a replacement APS-C, at least in the beginning.

They did not "abandon" the K-5 and K-3II shooters, they gave us the K-1.
09-06-2018, 11:03 AM   #1090
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
Maybe you should go on and buy the KP since its what you have said you are going to buy cause if its the APS-C flagship there won't be many price reductions anytime soon.
The KP is not any kind of "flagship", but there is no reason to expect price drops on either it or on the K-70.

I have owned my K-30 for roughly 40 months now (*), and it is still doing the job for me {last weekend I took 46 photos with it .... much above my usual average}. Dating back to 1969, only twice have I used a camera for less than 47 months. Perhaps Pentax will come out with something I like even better than a KP in the next year, most likely not, but I'm not waiting for KP price to fall. As I said before, I'm not a big hurry to spend more money.


(*) The Super Program on the left side of my signature served me for around 140 months

Last edited by reh321; 09-06-2018 at 11:16 AM.
09-06-2018, 11:18 AM - 1 Like   #1091
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I have owned my K-30 for roughly 40 months now (*), and it is still doing the job for me {last weekend I took 46 photos with it .... much above my usual average}. Dating back to 1969, only twice have I used a camera for less than 47 months. Perhaps Pentax will come out with something I like even better than a KP in the next year, most likely not, but I'm not waiting for its price to fall. As I said before, I'm not a big hurry to spend more money.

(*) The Super Program on the left side of my signature served me for around 140 months
You are becoming the average customer for modern dslr. The one that takes his camera for 4 years or so or longer. Not because you changed, but because everyone else stopped replacing it's camera every two years like before. Not good for the camera company's, but adapting their production and model cyclus is the way to go. K-3 is history, K-70 is still in line from the early er numbers and KP can go on for a long time with getting a sequal as the next aps-c camera.
09-06-2018, 11:30 AM   #1092
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
You are becoming the average customer for modern dslr. The one that takes his camera for 4 years or so or longer. Not because you changed, but because everyone else stopped replacing it's camera every two years like before. Not good for the camera company's, but adapting their production and model cyclus is the way to go. K-3 is history, K-70 is still in line from the early er numbers and KP can go on for a long time with getting a sequal as the next aps-c camera.
That is how I've always functioned. I used the Super Program for something like twelve years until I really wanted AF, and I purchased a Canon. I used that Canon for something like eleven years until I really wanted digital, and I purchased a Canon Rebel. Over the next eight years I used two Rebels, but each died, and that is why I switched back to Pentax - I would not have purchased model after model to keep up with changes .... as a computer professional I would purchase a new model perhaps every five years, because otherwise you are purchasing a model about to become "obsolete".

This is why I didn't understand a 'need' for a new K-3, and why I am puzzled by low inventory numbers.
09-06-2018, 11:36 AM - 2 Likes   #1093
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
That is how I've always functioned. I used the Super Program for something like twelve years until I really wanted AF, and I purchased a Canon. I used that Canon for something like eleven years until I really wanted digital, and I purchased a Canon Rebel. Over the next eight years I used two Rebels, but each died, and that is why I switched back to Pentax - I would not have purchased model after model to keep up with changes .... as a computer professional I would purchase a new model perhaps every five years, because otherwise you are purchasing a model about to become "obsolete".

This is why I didn't understand a 'need' for a new K-3, and why I am puzzled by low inventory numbers.
The problem is that Pentax muddled their product line. The K-3 II didn't have the best IQ, and the KP didn't have the best features. The K-3 II probably suffered sales because of it. They need an APS-C model that is clearly better than both, and they don't have one yet.
09-06-2018, 11:44 AM   #1094
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The KP is not any kind of "flagship", but there is no reason to expect price drops on either it or on the K-70.

I have owned my K-30 for roughly 40 months now (*), and it is still doing the job for me {last weekend I took 46 photos with it .... much above my usual average}. Dating back to 1969, only twice have I used a camera for less than 47 months. Perhaps Pentax will come out with something I like even better than a KP in the next year, most likely not, but I'm not waiting for KP price to fall. As I said before, I'm not a big hurry to spend more money.


(*) The Super Program on the left side of my signature served me for around 140 months
Well I'm glad we both agree that the KP is not a flagship APS-C. Now lets both try to agree that the K-1/K-1II are not the K-3/K-3II replacement that has been bandied about.

My K-3 and I have been companions since early 2014 and before that I had a K-50 which I still have. I'm like you a frugal shooter my shutter count as of Sept. 4th was 17,193. I try to shoot with it almost daily.

Your Super Program is an entirely different animal than a digital camera and will be viable as long as its mechanicals hold up and there is film to load in it.
09-06-2018, 12:03 PM   #1095
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mark Ransom Quote
The problem is that Pentax muddled their product line. The K-3 II didn't have the best IQ, and the KP didn't have the best features. The K-3 II probably suffered sales because of it. They need an APS-C model that is clearly better than both, and they don't have one yet.

This is exactly right, Mark. There is nothing wrong about the Pentax K3. It's a fine camera, but it's not the best Pentax ASP-C dSLR available at the moment. The KP made significant strides on it, but in a different form factor with different priorities.


Honestly, I have wanted to like the KP, but haven't been able to quite get there. I'm starting to understand it and it's making me think seriously about them again. That quality of crop dSLR in that form factor at that price? Quite compelling, actually. I want it to feel like my K5 in my hands, but maybe that's just something to get used to. I want it to have a top LCD, but maybe I should consider how I would take in that information without one instead of rejecting it because it's not what I'm use to...or maybe I should stick to the line that I'm currently in.

But, that's where the rub comes in. My K5 is still a great camera, but probably needs a month a Precision at a cost equivalent to a used K3. A new camera in that form factor is a significant step below the KP in ways that matter to me, so I can't feel good about doing that.


The K1 is also really compelling for it's size and price compared to the market and most of my lenses are compatible with it. It's tempting, but I don't really "need" to go Full Frame. Might do it anyway if the current choices are still the choices when it's time to act.

The hole in the lineup right now is an updated K7/K5/K3-line model. When it comes out, I might take a look and say "it's close enough in price and size to the K1 that I should just go that way" or it might send me back toward the KP.


It's hard to convince myself of a body purchase until that model gets announced. My gut tells met that it's coming, probably at Photokina but this year either way, but my gut isn't always truthful.
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