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09-12-2018, 02:04 PM - 1 Like   #1261
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QuoteOriginally posted by solitudebound Quote
What ends up on the rumor sites is weird. A camera sync app, a new Pentax how to manual and a random guess at new Ricoh GR. Flaming wars in the comments.

"is this all that there is? is there nothing more?"
If you are referring to this particular forum within Pentax Forums, it is actually titled "Pentax News and Rumors". A camera sync app as well as the how to articles are new and thus fit in quite nicely. If you need a bigger rumor fix, there are other sites and blogs that should fill that need.


I, too, tire of the flaming among participants and of Ricoh.

09-12-2018, 02:24 PM   #1262
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Hi!
-snip
One problem, of course, is that any camera with built in GPS is going to be... ... because GPS does not work through metal.
-snip
Mark
There are a few materials that GPS does not work all that well when surrounded by.

Train cars - this depends in Europe though, Germany - sometimes, Slovenia - most of the time, Czech Republic - most of the time, Poland - no way. Great Britain - just do not try it.

Tunnels - car and train.

Stone buildings - Cathedrals, OK if you are near a open door and you are willing to wait. Stand in the center of a Gothic Cathedral and your hit rate goes down to near zero.

Steel Buildings - i.e. modern buildings. Sometimes it works, but if you are in a building with gold coated windows - you are standing in a large Faraday Cage - best of luck getting a Cell signal in there, especially if you are using my cell provider (hint it starts with a V). My house has a 24 gauge steel roof and when it is cloudy/foggy/raining my phone/new laptop/wife's tablet/camera have a really hard time acquiring a GPS lock.

Aircraft - including the 777 and 787, Once you are in the air - GPS functionality just goes away for phone and camera.- I do not know why.

When I bought my first GPS system for my Compaq PDA it had a antenna with a magnet that the manufacture suggested that you keep outside the car or find a place in the car that the magnet it has built into the base attached. As long as you could keep the antenna with a clear view of the sky, then it would work within the +-10 meter limits of GPS at that time.

Full disclosure: I wanted the K-3II because it has GPS. I do not use the built in flash other than to see if it was working when I bought my other cameras. Being able to use the GPS to find out where I was is far more important the using a flash. And plastic? I don't use my cameras as hammers or wedges or to keep my car from rolling down the street, so plastic is not all that big a deal. I don't drop my cameras either - now lenses? Yeah I have dropped a few, not severely broken anything, but my Bower 8mm fisheye has a "defect" visible in the lens, but it still takes nice pictures.

Last edited by PDL; 09-12-2018 at 02:34 PM.
09-12-2018, 02:42 PM   #1263
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
Aircraft - including the 777 and 787, Once you are in the air - GPS functionality just goes away for phone and camera.- I do not know why.
That's probably because it can't keep up. Acquiring satellites, and calculating, at those speeds, I don't think they have the hardware for that many calculations in such a short time. Why would they?
09-12-2018, 02:51 PM   #1264
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dafbp
Interesting theory although by using ExifTool I know that the K-3II is using up to 10 satellites per image and my phone is reporting up to 8 per GPS fix. I have seen where the minimum to calculate location, speed and altitude is 3. My old HP PDA would tell you how many satellites it used to lock on. When using the phone on a plane my software says there are zero available satellites to lock onto. (Note: the software is not a default, it is a separate app)

09-12-2018, 02:55 PM   #1265
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Plane is a metal can and my post is offtop.
09-12-2018, 11:20 PM   #1266
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
... I don't drop my cameras either...
Staying off topic: if you drop them you're probably better off if there is plastic involved. My 18-year old son picked up my old 645 for his new interest in analog shooting. One day it fell out of his back pack and dropped on concrete ground with the FA 150mm f/2.8 ED attached (quite a heavy package). It hit the ground with the grip next to the shutter release button first and then the lens hood. After that it would no longer fire. Since we had nothing to lose, we took the whole grip apart and found there was a strong stainless steel plate inside below the shutter release button holding all the tiny contacts and electronics that was totally bent while the plastic housing had gone back to its original shape. We bent it back to its approximate original shape using brute force and then made sure that the contacts all did what they were supposed to do. Now it works again. The lens hood, the second point of impact, came away cracked but is still usable. The short version: all that is metal in the grip was deformed, including its fastening plate. The plastic (admittedly quite strong) took the blow without failing. Still it's not recommended to repeat the exercise.
09-13-2018, 01:10 AM - 1 Like   #1267
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafbp Quote
That's probably because it can't keep up. Acquiring satellites, and calculating, at those speeds, I don't think they have the hardware for that many calculations in such a short time. Why would they?
While we're going off topic.. ..the GPS receivers in modern phones and tablets are far superior to those just a few years back. And yes, they do work fine on an aircraft. You need to be in a window seat and it helps if the device has a fix before getting going - otherwise the time to first fix can be many minutes. I fly quite a lot, and can confirm both my Samsung S7 and iPad pro both have no problem in giving accurate position, track and speed. The K1 GPS also works in flight, again it takes a while to acquire a fix. The GPS signal from the satellite is very weak, so it doesn't take much to stop it. In the air you have the advantage that there is nothing stopping you getting a signal from horizon to horizon - other than the fuselage. Even if you are on a 787 with a carbon-fibre fuelage, there are conductive materials added to the outer skin to protect against lightning strikes, which can also block radio waves.

There is (AFAIK) a speed and altitude limit built in to the GPS receivers, but no commercial jet gets close.


Last edited by phoebus; 09-13-2018 at 01:11 AM. Reason: Spelling/grammar
09-13-2018, 04:59 AM   #1268
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My old Garmin GPSMap 60cx did work without a glitch on plane.
09-13-2018, 08:05 AM   #1269
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QuoteOriginally posted by phoebus Quote
While we're going off topic.. ..the GPS receivers in modern phones and tablets are far superior to those just a few years back. And yes, they do work fine on an aircraft. You need to be in a window seat and it helps if the device has a fix before getting going - otherwise the time to first fix can be many minutes. I fly quite a lot, and can confirm both my Samsung S7 and iPad pro both have no problem in giving accurate position, track and speed. The K1 GPS also works in flight, again it takes a while to acquire a fix. The GPS signal from the satellite is very weak, so it doesn't take much to stop it. In the air you have the advantage that there is nothing stopping you getting a signal from horizon to horizon - other than the fuselage. Even if you are on a 787 with a carbon-fibre fuelage, there are conductive materials added to the outer skin to protect against lightning strikes, which can also block radio waves.

There is (AFAIK) a speed and altitude limit built in to the GPS receivers, but no commercial jet gets close.
I, too, fly a lot and my Garmin Fenix 3 GPS watch can get a lock if it's by the window of most aircraft. The exception is the 787, which others on the internets have complained about blocking GPS and cellphone signals. I suspect that the electronically dimmable windows on the 787 are coated with electronically conductive materials which, like the conductive lightning shield, block radio waves.
09-13-2018, 08:09 AM - 1 Like   #1270
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whatever...

Just because everyone is discussin GPS.I never wanted GPS directly in a camera...
Believe it or not it draws energy... (quite a bit)


and i own an O-GPS1 module... if i want astrotracer or tag a location photographing outdoors.. i mount that module on my hotshoe. thats it. works.
NFC and WLAN on the other hand would have made sense... I remember that a few prototypes of the K-1 incorporated NFC and then they dropped it.

I wont cry for not having NFC in the K-1 either... IMHO that NFC would make much more sense in a new GR since that is dedicated to everyday- or street-photography and since that is so drops lot more spontaneous instagram candidate shots....
you may wanna upload via your smart directly after shooting them.

But despite all that... any more info on possible revelations at photokina?
09-13-2018, 11:50 AM - 1 Like   #1271
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QuoteOriginally posted by H.Abendsen Quote
whatever...

Just because everyone is discussin GPS.I never wanted GPS directly in a camera...
Believe it or not it draws energy... (quite a bit)


and i own an O-GPS1 module... if i want astrotracer or tag a location photographing outdoors.. i mount that module on my hotshoe. thats it. works.
NFC and WLAN on the other hand would have made sense... I remember that a few prototypes of the K-1 incorporated NFC and then they dropped it.

I wont cry for not having NFC in the K-1 either... IMHO that NFC would make much more sense in a new GR since that is dedicated to everyday- or street-photography and since that is so drops lot more spontaneous instagram candidate shots....
you may wanna upload via your smart directly after shooting them.

But despite all that... any more info on possible revelations at photokina?

It is true that no single product will appease all consumers...

I personally do not care for touchscreen, WiFi, 4k video (or anything video honestly)...
They could remove the video components altogether and add a BIGGER GPS unit instead and I'd be happy. (along with)

I love having the built-in astrotracer and having the hotshoe mount free for a scope to line up celestial objects.

To each their own!

Excited to see what they're announcing at Photokina!
And if it's not what I'm hoping to hear, then I will go back to my living room, grab my K-3ii and have an absolute blast shooting this amazing camera that I already own!
09-13-2018, 02:28 PM   #1272
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
It is true that no single product will appease all consumers...

I personally do not care for touchscreen, WiFi, 4k video (or anything video honestly)...
They could remove the video components altogether and add a BIGGER GPS unit instead and I'd be happy. (along with)

I love having the built-in astrotracer and having the hotshoe mount free for a scope to line up celestial objects.

To each their own!

Excited to see what they're announcing at Photokina!
And if it's not what I'm hoping to hear, then I will go back to my living room, grab my K-3ii and have an absolute blast shooting this amazing camera that I already own!
I totally agree with you, except that I have no use for GPS. I love seeing astrophotography photos that you guys post, but I live in the city and we're lucky to see the moon or a planet most of the year. I'd not want my camera to be bigger, heavier, more expensive, or later to market while they worked that out.

Just make me a really good camera...ANOTHER really good camera.
09-15-2018, 04:11 AM   #1273
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QuoteOriginally posted by troika Quote
I totally agree with you, except that I have no use for GPS.
Neither do I or most of the other professional photogs...
while I would appreciate 4K Video for documenting a "Set" before the shooting(and other purposes) and WiFi for directly uploading previews of my work to certain platforms.
I could even take pleasure in having a touchscreen, but only in case they dont implement a thumbstick for setting the position of the active focus-point(s)...


But i am not a touchscreen-fan and certainly would prefer a "Thumbstick" near the position where i would normally rest my right thumb.
(I would trade both of the "fantastico"-wheels for a grippy thumbstick at the right position...

but people will always come up with worshiping the built-in-GPS in the K-1 because some of them believe its a strong argument for that camera...
While actually the build quality/ruggedness of the body, 2 Card Slots, the amazing Image Quality and Pixelshift are the sole reasons for saying the K-1 is the best bang for the buck, IMHO.

And some will always argue with what they are fascinated about the most...(They dont care if that thing/feature is absolutely superfluous for professional work.)
And they will do that(discuss you to death) no matter what the actual discussion was about... be it a thread about a potential successor to the K-3 (so APS-C)
...they always come up with that argument and for them this is true, while for us it is not.


(The issue that actually set off the avalanche... was the fact that the KP is not anywhere near the build quality of the K-3... somebody wanted to justify that by saying : it has to be that way otherwise its GPS would not work.)

Up to now it seems to me, that not many people realised, that the Pentax KP has absolutely no GPS built in, whilst the K-1 which has the same build quality as the K-3 or better... has GPS built in.
People still are discussioning the Pentax KP's "build-quality-because-of-GPS-issue" and its technological background even though there is none.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Soo... no need to argue with people who "set other preferences"... If they are obsessed about a feature (or even a non-feature) its better to discuss about something else.
(Actually i wouldnt have brought it up again, but i was in a kind of a "flow" writing this and the main reason for answering to your answer is just saying, that there could be use for a touchscreen.
Of course only IF! :
there is no thumbstick of course and the cameras live-view AF is vera capable, of course.

---------- Post added 09-15-18 at 04:35 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yes, there are many here who don't trust the materials that modern aircraft, etc are made from.
I don't see what was unclear about my statement.
I thought that maybe was sarcasm, because:

... good build quality is good build quality ... (also a very clear fact)
Maybe you are right and it aint that bad... but hey... The KPs top will crack open much sooner than ANY metal and its not the thick'n'hard (nearly plastics like)rubber that can absorb shocks(i would be happy to see THAT material on a camera)...
so what are the actual advantages you see in using that mere plastic-material on top of the KP and where did you get the info, that the very same material is used in aeronautics?
(of course no one is supposed to drop his/her camera)

Am i discussing actually, while i formerly said... we shouldnt?
09-15-2018, 04:54 AM   #1274
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yes, there are many here who don't trust the materials that modern aircraft, etc are made from.
Aluminium?
Pentax used it for the DA Limiteds
09-15-2018, 05:14 AM   #1275
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Aluminium?
Pentax used it for the DA Limiteds
I've always found that to be quite an odd choice. It's so soft and malleable, not properties I'd think would be good for the barrel of a lens. Any metallurgy experts out there able to explain the possible rationale?
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