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01-25-2018, 02:37 AM   #121
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Better AF and if they can improve low light high ISO images better than the KP would be much welcome. I wouldn't care about video. I guess we who have lived during the film days will say that these would be enough. However, we are not the only people in the market. The younger generation however demands for the add-ons and I think for Pentax to attract new customers they should look into these add-ons. Of course costs and prices will rise including advertising.


Last edited by totsmuyco; 01-25-2018 at 02:38 AM. Reason: spelling
01-25-2018, 06:36 AM   #122
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Nothing against having better video, especially if it helps sell a few more cameras and increase brand visibility.
But there's no reason whatsoever to move from SD.
Sony's proprietary card is Sonylike expensive, and the extra speed is useless in this kind of camera, unless you're shooting uncompressed video, or dumping 7fps in TIFF format, which the camera (and processor) can't do anyway.
CF is also more expensive, and the extra speed above commercially available SD cards is also left unused.
Current SD cards are more than enough for 4K video (which is why they're used in several 4K 60fps video cameras), and they'll keep improving.
Pentax cameras aren't speed limited by the card, which can handle several FF RAW files per second, but by the processor/SD interface combo.
The SD interface is probably specced to be higher than the processor, which becomes apparent when the access light turns of during a burst, read or write. Even if they improve the processor, as expected due to natural evolution, there's plenty of speed available in the cards, should they improve the interface.
01-25-2018, 07:22 AM - 2 Likes   #123
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It is clear from this thread that everyone isn't on the same page with regard to cameras and what they need. Tirades against increased megapixels are red herrings. Who cares if there are 24 or 28 or just 20 megapixels on the sensor as long as the overall performance is excellent. For me, excellent means high dynamic range at base iso and the ability to keep that (along with low noise) at higher isos. It is clear that the most recent APS-C sensors (D7500/D500) have done an excellent job of doing that at the same time as they increase read out speeds.

As far as the third control wheel, I think it is something that separates Pentax from the others on the market and I see no problem with keeping it. If you don't like, don't use it. And yes, there are certain things, like wifi/exposure bracketing that are more easily turned on through that third control dial than they are through a series of button pushes. Regardless, I don't find the third control wheel changes the ergonomics significantly between the K-1 and K3 and as I say, it separates Pentax cameras from Nikon's interface.

Video is something that Pentax needs to focus on a little bit more. It will probably never be a priority for them, but increasingly, review sites do focus on video implementation and will dock cameras if they don't have good enough video. Figure out how to do decent 4K. Do mechanical shake reduction. I don't care about video very much, but it doesn't hurt me to have them work a little harder on it.

In the end, I want a camera that isn't focused on me, but is what a broad swatch of photographers want. If I don't happen to use a few of the features or it has higher megapixels than I need, that's no big deal. Pentax has to sell in the markeplace as it exists today and target specs towards that market.

Last edited by Rondec; 01-25-2018 at 07:56 AM.
01-26-2018, 04:27 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafbp Quote
Nothing against having better video, especially if it helps sell a few more cameras and increase brand visibility.
But there's no reason whatsoever to move from SD.
still I am convinced that some users may see that differently... that is why i am fond of the idea of having one UHS-III(or UHS-II) SD-card port and one CFExpress that is XQD backwards compatible... (Nikon D500 shows the way)
(please do not confuse CFExpress with CF or CFast... different formats)
--- BIG PLUS: Video functionalites could profit very much from having a high-speed card port.

and actually i still dont see where a redundant wheel differs us from other systems, if it just makes the camera look like a fuji product;
(which - FUJI- i actually dont like, though the hype around fuji nowadays seems to produce more fanboys than ever...i guess that is because it sounds very japanese)
And remember, it is just another additional weak point that has got to be sealed.
Furthermore, wheels always "wear off" pretty soon and tend to come off.

Note: Admittedly in analog times, Fuji did some interesting cameras--- i love the Natura Classica and GA645 series for instance... but now?

01-27-2018, 04:18 AM - 2 Likes   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by credos4u Quote
still I am convinced that some users may see that differently... that is why i am fond of the idea of having one UHS-III(or UHS-II) SD-card port and one CFExpress that is XQD backwards compatible... (Nikon D500 shows the way)
(please do not confuse CFExpress with CF or CFast... different formats)
--- BIG PLUS: Video functionalites could profit very much from having a high-speed card port.

and actually i still dont see where a redundant wheel differs us from other systems, if it just makes the camera look like a fuji product;
(which - FUJI- i actually dont like, though the hype around fuji nowadays seems to produce more fanboys than ever...i guess that is because it sounds very japanese)
And remember, it is just another additional weak point that has got to be sealed.
Furthermore, wheels always "wear off" pretty soon and tend to come off.

Note: Admittedly in analog times, Fuji did some interesting cameras--- i love the Natura Classica and GA645 series for instance... but now?
The extra wheels have nothing to do with Fuji and have a completely different implementation. On the K-1 it can be adjusted to allow for quick adjustment of SR, Wifi, HDR, Bracketing, Exposure compensation, iso and a couple of other things. The idea of being able to access these features without menu diving is a boon to me. Cameras over time have more and more features and many of them end up getting buried in menus and never used. Having them available via a third dial is very helpful.

As for wheels wearing off, this is just silly. I have had one e dial break in my 15 years of owning SLR cameras and never had a wheel "wear off" and come off. It is similar to the PASM dial so if those don't come off, I don't know why this one would.
01-29-2018, 11:02 AM - 2 Likes   #126
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Most of our preferences are based on familiarity . Live view is a product of those who were introduced to photography via the smart phone. Dials were the standard method of adjustment before displays and allow you to see how you are set up before turning the camera on ( just turning the camera on is a relatively new concept) .If something works better for you ....good but it is not necessary to put down other concepts and brands.
My opinion is that all new cameras have too many options.... Ill get excited when they include instant composition & creativity. Just saying.
01-29-2018, 11:22 AM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by photobobhunt Quote
My opinion is that all new cameras have too many options...


If you don't like all of the options for functionality and customization you're free to use even a K-1 like a cell phone or a polaroid: Ignore the fact there's even a menu, put it on green button auto, and fire away. Or if you'd rather it be like your 1970s vintage Pentax then turn off the review on the screen, put it on manual, flip the switch to manual focus, and never dig through a menu again.


But I think for every option you don't want and could eliminate you'd find a small pitchfork-wielding mob here ready to fight you for it.
01-29-2018, 12:04 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by photobobhunt Quote
Most of our preferences are based on familiarity . Live view is a product of those who were introduced to photography via the smart phone. Dials were the standard method of adjustment before displays and allow you to see how you are set up before turning the camera on ( just turning the camera on is a relatively new concept) .If something works better for you ....good but it is not necessary to put down other concepts and brands.
My opinion is that all new cameras have too many options.... Ill get excited when they include instant composition & creativity. Just saying.
Nice.

You always have the option of not using stuff that you don't want. You can stick most cameras in Av mode and only use the rear e dial and none of the other functions. Personally, I find using manual mode significantly easier with a couple of e dials -- easier yet if you have a third dial that you can use to set iso, but once again, to each his own.

Live view has nothing to do with smart phones and everything to do with the fact that CMOS sensors can give a continuous feed of what they see. I find that it saves my back when I have a camera on a tripod, but it is not necessary to use it either. The same is true with video -- this is more a side effect of the fact that current sensors can give read outs fast enough that you can take video with SLRs that have a CMOS sensor.

I don't think anyone is particularly disparaging dials -- they are just a different way of doing the same thing and neither one is right or wrong. At the same time, Pentax has had a particular style of doing things and I hope they don't have a huge change in ergonomics. Up to this point it has been pretty easy to go from camera to camera -- K5 to K3 to K-1 -- without huge changes in button placement or style of changing settings. Sure, it is what I'm used to, but that's true as well for everyone else who has been shooting Pentax over the last ten years.

01-29-2018, 12:15 PM   #129
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So what is this K-1ii update going to bring in?
KPs ISO performance on an already good K-1?
K-3's high frame rate + increased buffer (I believe this is much needed on K-1 rather than being a feature)?
Astronomical AF speeds that we have been missing?
Great video features that were never needed in a great DSLR but were increasingly asked by the industry in the DSLRs these days?

OR just an extra LED light in the battery bay to call it a K-1ii?
01-29-2018, 02:49 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The extra wheels have nothing to do with Fuji and have a completely different implementation. On the K-1 it can be adjusted to allow for quick adjustment of SR, Wifi, HDR, Bracketing, Exposure compensation, iso and a couple of other things. The idea of being able to access these features without menu diving is a boon to me. Cameras over time have more and more features and many of them end up getting buried in menus and never used. Having them available via a third dial is very helpful.

As for wheels wearing off, this is just silly. I have had one e dial break in my 15 years of owning SLR cameras and never had a wheel "wear off" and come off. It is similar to the PASM dial so if those don't come off, I don't know why this one would.
A personalised My menu is as simple (or even simplier) to use as the third wheel. Just 2 clicks and that's about it. One click to open My menu and one click to select the function you want/need. And you can do that using the right hand, without moving the camera to the left hand.

Why anyone would use the third wheel for exposure compensation or for adjusting ISO?
These are 2 settings quite important and using the dial to adjust them means that you have to take away the camera from the eye and you lose time in the process. Not to mention that there are 2 dedicated buttons next to the shutter to make these changes very fast.

A larger top screen (like the one from K3 II) to view the settings is more useful than the third wheel, at least in my opinion. But with or without the third wheel in the upcoming K3 Mark III, there are other areas where Ricoh should bring improvements.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 01-29-2018 at 03:07 PM.
01-29-2018, 03:10 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
But with or without the third wheel in the upcoming K3 Mark III, there are other areas where Ricoh should bring improvements.
Ricoh shown to have half baked ideas for Pentax cameras. Except size of the grip (too small) , I preferred the layout of the K3 to the K1. I tried a Canon 5DIV but on the Canon the vertical wheel is really badly placed, that is not the case of Pentax or Nikon that have the front wheel under the shutter button.
01-29-2018, 03:23 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
A personalised My menu is as simple (or even simplier) to use as the third wheel. Just 2 clicks and that's about it. One click to open My menu and one click to select the function you want/need. And you can do that using the right hand, without moving the camera to the left hand.

Why anyone would use the third wheel for exposure compensation or for adjusting ISO?
These are 2 settings quite important and using the dial to adjust them means that you have to take away the camera from the eye and you lose time in the process. Not to mention that there are 2 dedicated buttons next to the shutter to make these changes very fast.

A larger top screen (like the one from K3 II) to view the settings is more useful than the third wheel, at least in my opinion. But with or without the third wheel in the upcoming K3 Mark III, there are other areas where Ricoh should bring improvements.
I have not used a camera with the third wheel; have you?? The first two wheels have turned out to be much more useful than I had thought they would be.
01-29-2018, 03:25 PM - 1 Like   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
A personalised My menu is as simple (or even simplier) to use as the third wheel. Just 2 clicks and that's about it. One click to open My menu and one click to select the function you want/need. And you can do that using the right hand, without moving the camera to the left hand.

Why anyone would use the third wheel for exposure compensation or for adjusting ISO?
These are 2 settings quite important and using the dial to adjust them means that you have to take away the camera from the eye and you lose time in the process. Not to mention that there are 2 dedicated buttons next to the shutter to make these changes very fast.

A larger top screen (like the one from K3 II) to view the settings is more useful than the third wheel, at least in my opinion. But with or without the third wheel in the upcoming K3 Mark III, there are other areas where Ricoh should bring improvements.
There are different ways to do the same thing. One is not right nor the other wrong. It takes minimal time to spin the third wheel and you can see the change in the viewfinder very easily. If you are shooting manual mode, it is quite simple to have front dial set to shutter speed, back dial to aperture and top dial to iso. Certainly there are ways you can do that. Certainly having the third control wheel doesn't mean you have to use it.

It really does bother me where someone says that just because they don't use a feature that no one would use it. Better to leave it off. In fact, probably better to get a Canon since I hear the ways they do things are perfect.

Certainly the third control wheel is neither here nor there when it comes to a K3 II sequel. Better sensor, better video, better pixel shift and whatever else would be my expectation, but it is probably tough for a company like Pentax to get a camera out that will make a splash in the current market place.
01-29-2018, 03:27 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Ricoh shown to have half baked ideas for Pentax cameras. Except size of the grip (too small) , I preferred the layout of the K3 to the K1. I tried a Canon 5DIV but on the Canon the vertical wheel is really badly placed, that is not the case of Pentax or Nikon that have the front wheel under the shutter button.
It's strange at first, I admit. Being used to K5 II and K3 II placement of the buttons, it took me about 2-3 weeks to get used to Canon placement of the buttons. Now it's strange to use Pentax when I shoot with Pentax cameras from my friends because I'm used to Canon buttons.

Anyway, a "My menu" option and a touch screen on K3 Mark III, with the current top screen from K3 Mark II would be more eficient than the third wheel which I find quite useless.
01-29-2018, 03:37 PM   #135
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I think the "3rd wheel" aka Smart Function interface is a very good idea - the next K-1 should borrow the KP's C settings though.
As for a "My menu" option, it's not 100% equivalent but Pentax' customizable Info screen is quite nice.
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