Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-21-2018, 01:07 AM - 1 Like   #1426
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Genf
Posts: 398
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
If XT3 sensor is indeed from Samsung, this is encouraging.
Means Samsung is in the same ballpark performance wise as Sony.
I will let WikiMistral confirm that but I believe XT3 sensor is from Sony...

09-21-2018, 02:31 AM   #1427
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris
Posts: 4,149
There is no evidence either way yet.
09-21-2018, 06:37 AM - 1 Like   #1428
Forum Member




Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 98
So far the fujifilm X-T3 is good and the AF works quite well. It still does not resolve images as well as the KP/K-3 particularly in the shadow to mid range details. The X-T3 images are better than the X-T2 but they are still rather flat. I did the spruce tree test to see how much detail the cameras could pick up deeper into the tree and the KP/K-3 are way ahead. As for portraits in decent light the X-T3 does better at details like hair and not having as much of that waxy like detail fill between the hairs. The down side is that tone is sacrificed and you can bring it back in post but it looks somewhat artificial.
Will be sticking with Pentax for a while longer.

Umm. Yay!

Last edited by solitudebound; 09-21-2018 at 06:47 AM.
09-21-2018, 05:30 PM   #1429
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,221
QuoteOriginally posted by solitudebound Quote
So far the fujifilm X-T3 is good and the AF works quite well. It still does not resolve images as well as the KP/K-3 particularly in the shadow to mid range details. The X-T3 images are better than the X-T2 but they are still rather flat. I did the spruce tree test to see how much detail the cameras could pick up deeper into the tree and the KP/K-3 are way ahead. As for portraits in decent light the X-T3 does better at details like hair and not having as much of that waxy like detail fill between the hairs. The down side is that tone is sacrificed and you can bring it back in post but it looks somewhat artificial.
Where are the files coming from that you are analysing?

09-22-2018, 06:30 AM   #1430
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 429
QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Haha, I like your approach. But you avoided to answer my question.
Dpr just uploaded studio scene test shots of the X-T3 and if I compare it to the KP I see:

Studio comparison X-T3 vs. KP vs. D500 vs. A6500

And as far as I am concerned, the KP is still easyily amongst the best in it's category, if not the best. The new Fuji is softer and noisier, and from my perspective it lacks IBIS. Sure, a fine system, but if I am looking for high image quality this fancy new offer does not deliver me anything above the existing on the market. And in case of a change from KP it would be, for my style of shooting, even a downgrade. And I#m pretty sure this applies also to a large degree to existing K3-II shooters. Along these lines, I do understand the desire for a follow up of the K3II, but what IQ is concerned not much gain can be expected.

I was using digital cameras in my job since the early days starting with a Fuji Finepix S1Pro, Nikon D600, D800, Hasselblad H3D... and I must say the actual generation of APS-C is at such a high level of IQ, that it beats almost all of them, except for D800. Even the MF H3D did not have such a great noise performance at high ISO (it excelled in other areas) and was definitely lacking the speed and versatility of an actual model. That's why I decided that it is a good time to spend my private money and buy into a system with a mature technology, that will stay top notch for a longer time. And I think this is where we are at the moment. The latest generation of cameras is capable to deliver highest IQ that might be sufficient to 99% of users for the next say, five years.

And that is the problem of the camera industry, there are no real arguments for consumers to upgrade. They can offer new lenses, that make even better use of existing sensors, like Pentax is doing. Or they can start marketing campaigns trying to convince photographers, that their eqipment is inferior and that they should keep on investing, buying new camera models with new gimmicks, like some other manufacturers do. The decline in DSLR sale is not because there is a new better technology, but because the market is saturated and there is no reason for anyone with a last generation DSLR to buy a new one. The ILC might grow, but not because it is superior technology delivering better images, but just because if someone still wants to buy new equipment it is those who feel the urge or have the feeling that new must be better, somehow, "or they would not sell it"... Sites like dpr at least claim that - wait, they are owned by a company that wants to sell new equipment, gosh!

Yes, the K3 should be updated, but I don't think to come to a new level of IQ, but to offer some of the little helpers and gimmicks for convenient every day photography, like capable AF etc. Again, if I ask you to go to the comparison tool and compare the output of the Fuji with the latest sensor and the "old" KP: do you see any progress in the resulting images these tools are supposed to produce eventually? And I'm asking you, surfar, just because you replied, not specifically, can you SHOW it?

Sorry for this longish rant.
I also write a long post.
I continued my analog Pentax cameras with Ist DS, K10 and so on.
DA14 / 2.8 came -04, I was going to buy it and waited for something like 16/2, 18/2, 20 or 21/1.7, 24/1.7 and 30/1.4, as APS fast lenses.
Pentax did not do that, neither did Canikon do it, but Canikon could say that if you want fast lenses: buy FF.
The only Pentax has come to APS lenses for the past 5 years is slow zooms for "newcomers", like f4 and f5,6.
Fuji saw that it did not exist fast APS lenses for 6-8 years ago and found its niche that Pentax could do instead/ before.
K3 came 6 years ago(?) A very good camera with a first generation sensor with poor low light properties.
Then nothing.
2 years ago I bought a K1 because I can not buy fast lenses for APS and a K3 with a sensor that works in low light, with K1 i had Zenit 16 / 2.8 Tolkina 17/3,5/ K20/4, K24/2.8, FA35/2, FA50/1.4, 1,7, 2.8 and more.
Maybe I change my KP against a K3IV in a year or so and maybe I'll replace my F70-210/4-5.6 against a DFA70-200/4.
But my upgrades for APS are probably just a new camera for my old lens.
Pentax can come with new K3 and K1 with external EVF so it works like a DSLR and a MILC.

Last edited by Bophoto; 09-22-2018 at 07:21 AM.
09-22-2018, 06:49 AM   #1431
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,916
QuoteOriginally posted by Bophoto Quote
I also write a long post.
I continued my analog Pentax cameras with Ist DS, K10 and so on.
DA14 / 2.8 came -04, I was going to buy it and waited for something like 16/2, 18/2, 20 or 21 / 1.7, 24 / 1.7 and 30 / 1.4, as APS quick lenses.
Pentax did not do that, neither did Canikon do it, but Canikon could say that if you want fast lenses: buy FF.
The only Pentax has come to APS lenses for the past 5 years is slow zooms for "newcomers", like f4 and f5,6.
Looking at KP, Pentax's answer for low light may be higher ISO - they may think f/4-5.6 is for all photographers, experienced as well as "newcomers", using APS as long as camera gracefully handles high ISO values.
09-22-2018, 08:32 AM   #1432
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 923
QuoteOriginally posted by Bophoto Quote
K3 came 6 years ago(?) A very good camera with a first generation sensor with poor low light properties.
I guess I don't have any first hand experience with cameras with good low light properties, but I've gotten what I consider pretty reasonable results from a K-3II and ISO 10,000.
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-3 II  Photo 
09-22-2018, 08:42 AM   #1433
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 8,233
QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
I will let WikiMistral confirm that but I believe XT3 sensor is from Sony...
NX-1's sensor was better than Sony. XT3 is worse than Sony's sensors.

09-22-2018, 09:21 AM - 1 Like   #1434
Pentaxian
Larrymc's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,605
QuoteOriginally posted by Bophoto Quote
K3 came 6 years ago(?) A very good camera with a first generation sensor with poor low light properties.
Actually the K-3 was announced 7 October 2013 so that makes it just under 5 years from announcement date. At the time of its introduction it had very good low light capabilities for an APS-C DSLR and it still does a pretty decent job.
09-22-2018, 09:25 AM - 1 Like   #1435
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Pål Jensen's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,398
Decent is an understatement....
09-22-2018, 12:47 PM   #1436
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,221
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
NX-1's sensor was better than Sony. XT3 is worse than Sony's sensors.
On what basis?
09-22-2018, 01:28 PM   #1437
Forum Member




Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 95
QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
On what basis?
DxO Rating ...for instance... K-3 Sensor has less DynamicRange than the Samsung NX-500/Samsung NX1 Sensor plus a higher resolution

...which the most photogs will add together to "better", even if its debatable
I dont know the High-ISO results from the Samsung NX1... And actually i seldomly shoot higher than 12.800 so i dont really care.


Nonetheless, I tried the NX1 at photokina, but despite i didnt like its contrast AF...
...or better said: I thought for myself, for 2000 bucks the AF.C is really NOT as stellar as it should be...(i tracked the girl on the swing with the NX1 from candyland. and my pentax was delivering nearly the same AF performance)...
... I believe I can remember that, the high-ISO results on the other hand are excellent...but take a look for yourself ... maybe we will see in the next PENTAX crop flagship DSLR...

I never understood Samsungs move to that artificial mount leading to the production of a mirrorless body, that... looking at its size... could also be mirrorless but with a K-mount.


MIRRORLESS IMHO should stay with M43... because its compact... (plus lenses can be also kept small at this sensor size) and I think thats the ideal size for mirrorless.



But at the very moment you increase sensor size to "crop35"... lenses grow ... overall size with a good and fast lens renders the size advantage of the MILC-body alone very pointless.

And not enough that mirrorless cameras draw more energy than (even with SR/IBIS equipped -)SLRs anyway, no they also consume much more energy the bigger the sensor gets...

The fujis and hassy MILC mf-cameras dont stand a chance against a 645Z talking about "stamina".



Weighin in all those points, i am pretty sure, there could not happen anything better than a PENTAX APS-C DSLR flagship equipped with this sensor...

Given the fact PENTAX improves its Autofocus-modules and algorithms to be competitive to Nikons D500/7500.. man... if i could buy it now for 1.500 or even 1.800 bucks i would go and get one. like.. fxxxing today.
09-22-2018, 01:44 PM - 1 Like   #1438
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,916
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
NX-1's sensor was better than Sony. XT3 is worse than Sony's sensors.
QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
On what basis?
NX-500 scored higher than K-3ii on all three DxoMark measures
Pentax K-3 II vs Samsung NX500
and it has slightly more MP.
09-22-2018, 01:58 PM   #1439
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,221
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
NX-500 scored higher than K-3ii on all three DxoMark measures
Youve jogged my memory,ha ha...I think i saw it rated higher somewhere than the NX1 as well.

The NX500 is a great little camera(and still is),it was the one i used extensively before i got the K-1.

If the rumour is true that Ricoh have a Samsung sensor for the next Apsc,they will deliver something exceptional.

Lets hope theres news of a "development update" in a few days!
09-22-2018, 02:06 PM   #1440
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,916
QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Youve jogged my memory,ha ha...I think i saw it rated higher somewhere than the NX1 as well.

The NX500 is a great little camera(and still is),it was the one i used extensively before i got the K-1.

If the rumour is true that Ricoh have a Samsung sensor for the next Apsc,they will deliver something exceptional.

Lets hope theres news of a "development update" in a few days!
My guess is that the NX500 is another case where lacking a viewfinder caused a camera to be under-rated.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
50mm, 85mm, adapter, angle, aps-c, battery, camera, camera list, canikon, depth, gap, k-3 ii, k-mount, k3, lens, lenses, list, mirrorless, mount, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, pool, products, ricoh, ricoh japan, size, wonder
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DA 18-55 WR replacement on K-3 II CharLac Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 19 04-19-2018 08:29 AM
Pentax K3ii officially discontinued dcpropilot Pentax News and Rumors 509 03-05-2018 09:25 AM
K3ii replacement 36mp? amp Pentax DSLR Discussion 35 02-21-2017 10:17 PM
Successor to K3ii - care to guess when? Spodeworld Pentax K-3 178 11-12-2016 01:57 PM
Replacement K3ii also under affected serial Numbers khilla Ask B&H Photo! 2 07-23-2015 11:12 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:47 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top