[Reed]

5 years is a very long time. A lot of (even difficult) progress is possible in 5 years.
But let's assume that you are right, and it is truly beyond the capabilities of the Pentax engineers to step up to a +/- 50 points AF module with decent coverage in 5 years development time, then the very simple conclusion is, that Pentax will have to migrate to, or expand to, a mirrorless system like Olympus, Sony and Fuji, with a hybrid on-sensor pd-af and c-af system. They seem to have no problem whatsoever to make great strides on AF level in a 5 year period.
Alternatively, Pentax will have to settle with a position as the odd one out.

Chris

Chris, I think you miss the point here. It took Nikon around 20years of constant development to be where they are now, and to fully use its capabilities they had to almost redo all of their lenses. That is also the point why Canon is currently doing new variations of their older lenses. Their strong point is that they made the "hard" decision of retiring mechanical coupled drives for stepper motors years ago. Phase detection AF is whole diffrent thing to develop than contrast detection used by Oly, Fuji, Panasonic. Sony also tried to make it their way with SLT tech. I find Ricoh efforts bigger than those of Hoya, there was almost no upgrade between that era AF systems. Ricoh made two big leaps forward with K-3 and K-1. KP autofocus is way more accurate that K-3 classic in my opinion.

[Rondec]

After seeing the "leaked" K-1II specifications, I now wonder how much effort they will put on the K-3II replacement. I guess only time will tell.

There are some exciting cameras coming out soon & if Ricoh wants Pentax to be relevant, they really need to make that K-3II replacement very desirable.

I'm on the edge of my chair right now. Hahaha!

If Pentax was just planning on releasing a K3 II replacement with current K3 II specs and an accelerator chip it could be done now. It's clear they are working on something more. I still wouldn't get my hopes up too much. Part of the problem is that we whip up expectations too high in the time leading up to a camera's release, imagining the features that Pentax can/should place in the coming camera and then end up being disappointed because the camera is too big (or too small), doesn't have the right video codecs (or has video at all), or whatever else comes to mind.

My guess would be an incremental improvement frame rate and auto focus, but that the biggest thing will be that Pentax will have a new imaging processor. Not sure what is out there, but it feels like for this camera and probably for next generation cameras in general they will need something a bit more modern.

I do wonder how much they'll do with video. It feels like cameras at this level will need to have 4K video going forward and so that will need to be something they figure out.

Ricoh isn't dumb and they understand that they need specifications that are adequate to sell a camera versus other cameras available at a given price point.

[Chris Mak]

Chris, I think you miss the point here. It took Nikon around 20years of constant development to be where they are now, and to fully use its capabilities they had to almost redo all of their lenses. That is also the point why Canon is currently doing new variations of their older lenses. Their strong point is that they made the "hard" decision of retiring mechanical coupled drives for stepper motors years ago. Phase detection AF is whole diffrent thing to develop than contrast detection used by Oly, Fuji, Panasonic. Sony also tried to make it their way with SLT tech. I find Ricoh efforts bigger than those of Hoya, there was almost no upgrade between that era AF systems. Ricoh made two big leaps forward with K-3 and K-1. KP autofocus is way more accurate that K-3 classic in my opinion.

Good to hear! My experience with the K3 and DA560 have been a mixed bag. I can live with a dated AF point layout, but I found it increasingly frustrating missing shots due to lacking focus accuracy, and the K3 wasting the moment with its zip-zip-zip behavior in anything but direct bright sunlit subjects. My frustration with Pentax AF may be a major bore to read, but it has built up over 4,5 years of K3 use. I've simply outgrown the AF performance, not C-AF wise, or missing hundreds of focus points, but just the unreliability and inaccuracy when subjects are not fully lit.

So I sold the K3 and have the KP + grip on order. Not waiting around in fairy, wishful thinking land any longer, but just going to see if I can get by with the latest tech that Pentax can offer. Thinking out of the box, the KP with grip doesn't seem all that bad...

[Reed]

Well that is quite an odd behavior of your K-3 copy then, I never used it with 560' but with DA60-250,DA Limiteds, DFA its quite snappy. KP is not necessarily faster, but it's definitely more accurate and decisieve, especialy in dim conditions.

[FantasticMrFox]

So I sold the K3 and have the KP + grip on order. Not waiting around in fairy, wishful thinking land any longer, but just going to see if I can get by with the latest tech that Pentax can offer. Thinking out of the box, the KP with grip doesn't seem all that bad...

If you have the funds for a DA560, why not sell the Pentax stuff, jump on a D500 and a couple of lenses and get an AF that's millennia ahead of Pentax? I know it's what I would do if I shot a lot of wildlife.

[Chris Mak]

Well that is quite an odd behavior of your K-3 copy then, I never used it with 560' but with DA60-250,DA Limiteds, DFA its quite snappy. KP is not necessarily faster, but it's definitely more accurate and decisieve, especialy in dim conditions.

That latest sentence is what it is about for me. Thanks for sharing that. If my experience is the same, than it will be worth the upgrade price alone.

---------- Post added 02-16-18 at 01:27 PM ----------

If you have the funds for a DA560, why not sell the Pentax stuff, jump on a D500 and a couple of lenses and get an AF that's millennia ahead of Pentax? I know it's what I would do if I shot a lot of wildlife.

Of course that is what I will in time do, but the culprit is, I don't want to dump my DA560, which is b.t.w. in my opinion a fantastic lens optically, at a second hand low price in a market where you can get a sigma or tamron 150-600 for 1000,- with fast, accurate focus motors for the Nikon or Canon platform. I will most likely rather keep the DA560 than having to practically give it away, and start building another system next to it and the KP (if the KP is a success). I tried to sell the DA 1.4TC last year here in Europe. I did not get a single offer in three months.

Chris

[reh321]

I’d guess that the growth of mirrorless will make APS-C on DSLR increasingly difficult financially for a smaller player and even more tricky financially for those revised screwdrive lenses you mention. One can see why Ricoh are looking harder at FF these days where this does not apply to anything like the same extent, or not yet. I doubt there is time, now, for a multi-year lens refresh on APS-C. The period needed to recoup the capital outlay of revising all the DA Limited lenses, say, just isn't likely to be there. Maybe better to earmark the money for a new mount come mirrorless option or accept a rundown towards much more modest sales on crop DSLRs. The way the market is changing must all be a very difficult challenge for Ricoh’s financial planners. I would expect a basic set of new or improved zooms on APS-C K-mount, like the recently announced 11-18mm or the not-so-old 16-85mm, but not a flush of modern crop-format primes for the K mount. New primes would have to share with the FF venture. We'll see.

They don't need to refresh "DA" lenses; they need to work on "DFA" lenses, which can be used on APS-C cameras.

[thibs]

They don't need to refresh "DA" lenses; they need to work on "DFA" lenses, which can be used on APS-C cameras.

Agreed in general, but common standard pro zooms should be done, IMO 16-50/50-135.

[mecrox]

They don't need to refresh "DA" lenses; they need to work on "DFA" lenses, which can be used on APS-C cameras.

You mean like the forthcoming 50mm f1.4? That's way too large and costly for APS-C, I would think. If you mean a range of slightly smaller and less costly lenses of an f1.8 kind, then I agree but that's not what they seem to be doing ...

[Kunzite]

IMO it's not too large and costly for a top-level APS-C, the lack of which seems to be why people are upset these days.

[Chris Mak]

IMO it's not too large and costly for a top-level APS-C, the lack of which seems to be why people are upset these days.

Oh stop moaning about that illusive and imaginary flagship, I am trying to warm up to the KP!
Why?: it's real, it's here, it's now, it has the latest Pentax tech, and it is (un)officially the current APS-C flagship, until someone proves me otherwise with a real camera in his hands!


I am starting to like the KP... seriously...

[Kunzite]

Huh? Moaning? Me?
I'm simply pointing out about the contradiction between complaining that there's no new top-level APS-C, and that the D FA* 50mm is too large and costly.

[Rondec]

You mean like the forthcoming 50mm f1.4? That's way too large and costly for APS-C, I would think. If you mean a range of slightly smaller and less costly lenses of an f1.8 kind, then I agree but that's not what they seem to be doing ...

You get what you pay for. The DA *55 is a very nice lens as well, but if you want a lens that is faster to focus, sharp wide open then you'll have to deal with a bigger lens. Honestly, if you are willing to deal with the size of the DA *16-50 and 50-135 I'm not sure why you would be upset with the DFA *50 with regard to size, particularly if in the back of your mind you think maybe someday, a used copy of a K-1 will float your way for not too much money...

[Zygonyx]

Well, Fujifilm just released their new X-H1 APS-C flagship. Has 5-axis IBIS & 4K video. The competition is getting furious. As it is, Olympus, Pansonic, & Sony also have some very nice cameras at the moment with 5-axis IBIS, excellent AF, & excellent video capabilities. There's a lot of competition going on.

With so many advancements in the mirrorless world, how will Ricoh respond with the K-3II replacement?

Ricoh doesn't need to reply.
They've used the same sensor about 5 years before, and SR for about 12 years before....
So photographically speaking, Fuji' specs sheet proves an average of 8,5 years behind Pentax.
Not to mention X-mount doesn't comply with 35mm sensors...

[jatrax]

I am starting to like the KP... seriously...

I would be interested in your impression of the KP with the 560 once you get a chance to work with them. Particularly any difference in AF between K-3 and KP that you notice.