K3ii replacement

**Larrymc** · 08-27-2018, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

If it's Sony, remember Memory Stick, an even worse idea. Many of their early cameras would have sold much better if they had only supported standard cards.

I forgot about that one.

biz-engineer · 08-27-2018, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

The danger of not recouping investments exists no matter what. If somebody decides to get a Sony rather than a Nikon, how does that recoup the investment?You should never be afraid to compete with yourself, because others won't be so shy. Sony is certainly going to take advantage, and it will be interesting to see what Canon does next.

That's because you believe that the camera market is not segmented, but somehow it is segmented (ref. to market segmentation). Anyway, customers shouldn't substitute themselves to business execs, the role of a customer (for cameras) is to buy cameras and take photographs.

photoptimist · 08-27-2018, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

The danger of not recouping investments exists no matter what. If somebody decides to get a Sony rather than a Nikon, how does that recoup the investment?

You should never be afraid to compete with yourself, because others won't be so shy. Sony is certainly going to take advantage, and it will be interesting to see what Canon does next.

Competing with oneself does not make any money unless the new product is either really cheap to develop (a good MILC and lens portfolio isn't that cheap) or has really high profit margins (unclear with the more costly electronics inside MILCs). If Nikon MILCs only steal marketshare from Nikon DSLR, they've lost. Nikon only wins if they steal market share from Sony, Canon, etc.

Done wrong, Nikon will lose more money on the Z6 and Z7 than if they just let Sony win a few sales.

**Belnan** · 08-27-2018, 02:36 PM

The last couple of times i have gone into Henry's I've checked out the A7II. 1799 cad with the 24-70 kit lens, its a pretty decent piece of kit. Its hard to see a K3 III being able to compete. Sony has the market saturated. Maybe the the next top level apsc cam will be even cheaper than the last.

Mark Ransom · 08-27-2018, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by photoptimist

Competing with oneself does not make any money unless the new product is either really cheap to develop (a good MILC and lens portfolio isn't that cheap) or has really high profit margins (unclear with the more costly electronics inside MILCs). If Nikon MILCs only steal marketshare from Nikon DSLR, they've lost. Nikon only wins if they steal market share from Sony, Canon, etc.

Done wrong, Nikon will lose more money on the Z6 and Z7 than if they just let Sony win a few sales.

Why would Nikon's mirrorless line be developed with lower margins than their DSLR line? That seems like an unreasonable assumption to me.

**Pål Jensen** · 08-27-2018, 03:21 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Belnan

The last couple of times i have gone into Henry's I've checked out the A7II. 1799 cad with the 24-70 kit lens, its a pretty decent piece of kit. Its hard to see a K3 III being able to compete. Sony has the market saturated. Maybe the the next top level apsc cam will be even cheaper than the last.

The K3 outcompetes it as the Sony lack a decent viewfinder.

reh321 · 08-27-2018, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

The K3 outcompetes it as the Sony lack a decent viewfinder.

That's your opinion.
Sales totals show that others disagree.

MarkJerling · 08-27-2018, 05:10 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

That's your opinion.
Sales totals show that others disagree.

Majority opinion have given us lots of things we don't need or want. Just because many people might be buying, does not mean what they're selling is better.

troika · 08-27-2018, 05:13 PM - **4 Likes**

Some people prefer Sony and I get that. They make a good product and it is tempting. Happy that the people who want them are able to buy them.

I would not be happy with the cost or options on lenses and I can't warm up to a EVF.

They're making a good product and it appeals to a good market, but it's Pentax for me.

**lsimpkins** · 08-27-2018, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by jumbleview

K-3.14 (pi number) is great. With K-2.72 (e-number) to follow. And K- 1.41 (square root of 2) is not bad. And there are a lot more of math and physics constants to choose from.

P.S. Copyright belongs to @lsimpkins

Yes, going with the physics, "K-ν" would be a good choice, where the second letter is the Greek small letter nu. Nu, being the frequency of light, and also sounding exactly like "new", there could be lots of fun with that name.

SSGGeezer · 08-27-2018, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by lsimpkins

Yes, going with the physics, "K-ν" would be a good choice, where the second letter is the Greek small letter nu. Nu, being the frequency of light, and also sounding exactly like "new", there could be lots of fun with that name.

So would a K-nu be like a Gnu?

**Larrymc** · 08-27-2018, 06:40 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

That's your opinion.
Sales totals show that others disagree.

You totally missed what he said, its not that Sony doesn't sell more its that the optical viewfinder is better than the Sony EVF.

**Larrymc** · 08-27-2018, 06:41 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MarkJerling

Majority opinion have given us lots of things we don't need or want. Just because many people might be buying, does not mean what they're selling is better.

Totally AGREE!!

reh321 · 08-27-2018, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

Majority opinion have given us lots of things we don't need or want. Just because many people might be buying, does not mean what they're selling is better.

And in this case either could be either. All I wanted was an IMHO acknowledgement.

reh321 · 08-27-2018, 07:12 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Larrymc

You totally missed what he said, its not that Sony doesn't sell more its that the optical viewfinder is better than the Sony EVF.

That is exactly what I thought he was claiming. It is His Humble Opinion that OVF is better than EVF. My point was that some people have the opposite opinion. I have not come to hold an opinion myself - I see benefit to both.

08-27-2018, 07:12 PM - 2 Likes	#840
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Larrymc You totally missed what he said, its not that Sony doesn't sell more its that the optical viewfinder is better than the Sony EVF. That is exactly what I thought he was claiming. It is His Humble Opinion that OVF is better than EVF. My point was that some people have the opposite opinion. I have not come to hold an opinion myself - I see benefit to both. Last edited by reh321; 08-27-2018 at 07:18 PM.

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08-27-2018, 01:14 PM	#826
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by Mark Ransom If it's Sony, remember Memory Stick, an even worse idea. Many of their early cameras would have sold much better if they had only supported standard cards. I forgot about that one.

08-27-2018, 01:43 PM	#827
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by Mark Ransom The danger of not recouping investments exists no matter what. If somebody decides to get a Sony rather than a Nikon, how does that recoup the investment?You should never be afraid to compete with yourself, because others won't be so shy. Sony is certainly going to take advantage, and it will be interesting to see what Canon does next. That's because you believe that the camera market is not segmented, but somehow it is segmented (ref. to market segmentation). Anyway, customers shouldn't substitute themselves to business execs, the role of a customer (for cameras) is to buy cameras and take photographs.

08-27-2018, 02:19 PM	#828
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,122	Originally posted by Mark Ransom The danger of not recouping investments exists no matter what. If somebody decides to get a Sony rather than a Nikon, how does that recoup the investment? You should never be afraid to compete with yourself, because others won't be so shy. Sony is certainly going to take advantage, and it will be interesting to see what Canon does next. Competing with oneself does not make any money unless the new product is either really cheap to develop (a good MILC and lens portfolio isn't that cheap) or has really high profit margins (unclear with the more costly electronics inside MILCs). If Nikon MILCs only steal marketshare from Nikon DSLR, they've lost. Nikon only wins if they steal market share from Sony, Canon, etc. Done wrong, Nikon will lose more money on the Z6 and Z7 than if they just let Sony win a few sales.

08-27-2018, 02:36 PM	#829
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	The last couple of times i have gone into Henry's I've checked out the A7II. 1799 cad with the 24-70 kit lens, its a pretty decent piece of kit. Its hard to see a K3 III being able to compete. Sony has the market saturated. Maybe the the next top level apsc cam will be even cheaper than the last.

08-27-2018, 02:58 PM	#830
Mark Ransom Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 498	Originally posted by photoptimist Competing with oneself does not make any money unless the new product is either really cheap to develop (a good MILC and lens portfolio isn't that cheap) or has really high profit margins (unclear with the more costly electronics inside MILCs). If Nikon MILCs only steal marketshare from Nikon DSLR, they've lost. Nikon only wins if they steal market share from Sony, Canon, etc. Done wrong, Nikon will lose more money on the Z6 and Z7 than if they just let Sony win a few sales. Why would Nikon's mirrorless line be developed with lower margins than their DSLR line? That seems like an unreasonable assumption to me.

08-27-2018, 03:21 PM - 1 Like	#831
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Belnan The last couple of times i have gone into Henry's I've checked out the A7II. 1799 cad with the 24-70 kit lens, its a pretty decent piece of kit. Its hard to see a K3 III being able to compete. Sony has the market saturated. Maybe the the next top level apsc cam will be even cheaper than the last. The K3 outcompetes it as the Sony lack a decent viewfinder.

08-27-2018, 04:52 PM	#832
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Pål Jensen The K3 outcompetes it as the Sony lack a decent viewfinder. That's your opinion. Sales totals show that others disagree.

08-27-2018, 05:10 PM - 3 Likes	#833
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Originally posted by reh321 That's your opinion. Sales totals show that others disagree. Majority opinion have given us lots of things we don't need or want. Just because many people might be buying, does not mean what they're selling is better.

08-27-2018, 05:13 PM - 4 Likes	#834
troika Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 1,753	Some people prefer Sony and I get that. They make a good product and it is tempting. Happy that the people who want them are able to buy them. I would not be happy with the cost or options on lenses and I can't warm up to a EVF. They're making a good product and it appeals to a good market, but it's Pentax for me.

08-27-2018, 05:23 PM	#835
lsimpkins Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: SE Pennsylvania Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 537	Originally posted by jumbleview K-3.14 (pi number) is great. With K-2.72 (e-number) to follow. And K- 1.41 (square root of 2) is not bad. And there are a lot more of math and physics constants to choose from. P.S. Copyright belongs to @lsimpkins Yes, going with the physics, "K-ν" would be a good choice, where the second letter is the Greek small letter nu. Nu, being the frequency of light, and also sounding exactly like "new", there could be lots of fun with that name.

08-27-2018, 06:27 PM	#836
SSGGeezer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Indiana, U.S. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,845	Originally posted by lsimpkins Yes, going with the physics, "K-ν" would be a good choice, where the second letter is the Greek small letter nu. Nu, being the frequency of light, and also sounding exactly like "new", there could be lots of fun with that name. So would a K-nu be like a Gnu?

08-27-2018, 06:40 PM - 1 Like	#837
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by reh321 That's your opinion. Sales totals show that others disagree. You totally missed what he said, its not that Sony doesn't sell more its that the optical viewfinder is better than the Sony EVF.

08-27-2018, 06:41 PM - 1 Like	#838
Larrymc Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 5,251	Originally posted by MarkJerling Majority opinion have given us lots of things we don't need or want. Just because many people might be buying, does not mean what they're selling is better. Totally AGREE!!

08-27-2018, 07:11 PM	#839
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by MarkJerling Majority opinion have given us lots of things we don't need or want. Just because many people might be buying, does not mean what they're selling is better. And in this case either could be either. All I wanted was an IMHO acknowledgement.