[reh321]

No, that is coming when due time is........

There is no evidence that they will phase out the K-70 or the KP before the K-3 replacement is ready.
Your words sound a lot like troll word games here.

More to the point, Pentax has promised a K-3 replacement, and we will get a K-3 replacement .... just not quite as speedily as we had hoped for.
The rumors about availability of a sensor from Samsung are one of several reasons explaining this unfortunate delay.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/375925-wild-rumour...-fujifilm.html

[Mistral75]

(...)

The negative impact of acquisitions should be factored off, as they're one-time expenses. What matters is if the business is viable.

(...)

No no no. I was talking about a (supposedly) negative contribution of the acquired business to the operating result, not about one-time expenses.

Anyway, now that I'm back in front of a computer I checked the sources and the exact wording is as follows:

The impact of PENTAX Ricoh Imaging Co. for FY2012/03 was 15.0 billion in net sales and no impact in operating income.

https://www.ricoh.com/IR/data/pre/pdf/h23q4_con.pdf page 3

Other business resulted in minus 6 billion yen operating income. The largest factor behind the loss is compact digital cameras of Ricoh. PENTAX was almost brake [sic!] even in profit.

https://www.ricoh.com/IR/pdf/essence_text_0426.pdf page 5

So the Pentax business acquired by Ricoh from Hoya contributed ¥15bn in sales over 6 months (it was acquired as of 1st October 2011 and was therefore consolidated during the second half of the fiscal year only) and was almost break-even whilst the Ricoh-branded compact cameras lost a good portion of ¥6bn during FY2012/03.

In other words, Hoya sold and Ricoh acquired a business (Pentax Imaging) of around ¥30bn in yearly sales and 0- in operating income, i.e. a business that was apparently turned around.

Smart Vision (which includes Pentax, the Ricoh compact cameras, the Theta business and the rugged BtoB cameras) achieved net sales of ¥19.4bn in FY2018/03.

[Mistral75]

So Pentax representatives were lying when they told Adam a K-3 replacement is coming???

Remember what asahi man wrote earlier this year (in early February) on the other forum:

[Kunzite]

@Mistral75
Thank you. Indeed, acquiring Pentax Imaging Systems was not the waste of money some people want us to think it was.

[Mistral75]

Ricoh paid too much for a Pentax bride that wore a heavy make-up applied by Hoya.

However this acquisition might have been necessary for Ricoh to maintain an activity in the camera business, considering the state of theirs at the time.

[reh321]

Remember what asahi man wrote earlier this year (in early February) on the other forum:

Yes, he says that a K-3 replacement is being developed but will be a little later than people would hope.

added: That is the part relevant to this thread.

[Kunzite]

@Mistral75
That's debatable. How much is your only chance of succeeding at consumer imaging, and likely several non-consumer imaging areas worth?

[Pål Jensen]

Yes, he says that a K-3 replacement is being developed but will be a little later than people would hope.

I don't believe for a moment that anyone in Germany have any idea of what Pentax is planning in a year or two.

[reh321]

I don't believe for a moment that anyone in Germany have any idea of what Pentax is planning in a year or two.

In this case, his words agree with what the Pentax representative told Adam:

A K-3 replacement is being developed, but will be later than we had hoped.

[troika]

I've participated in this thread, so I'm not without blame, but I can't believe that we've gone for 91 pages arguing and speculating about something that we'll have actual information on in the next week and a half. I'm willing to just wait and see what they say.

Both the KP and the K1 would be fine upgrades for me and the K3 line would give me a nice refresh. They'll make their announcements and then we'll know. I'm not leaving Pentax for Sony, Canon, or Nikon because I enjoy Pentax. But, I do think that I'll purchase a body in the next year and within 2 weeks I'll have more information to plan around.


You guys are all awesome. Be happy. If you really can't be happy with Pentax, move to another brand. It's okay.

[RonHendriks1966]

@Mistral75
Thank you. Indeed, acquiring Pentax Imaging Systems was not the waste of money some people want us to think it was.

A camera business that has zero profit is more like a hobby then a business. The value of it is not more then everything you can sell (building, equipment, inventory, and all you find) minus the cost for laying off staff.

Yes, he says that a K-3 replacement is being developed but will be a little later than people would hope.

added: That is the part relevant to this thread.

That sounds more like cp+ 2020 then thè upcoming Photokina, but we will learn more in just 6 days.

---------- Post added 18-09-18 at 22:51 ----------

I've participated in this thread, so I'm not without blame, but I can't believe that we've gone for 91 pages arguing and speculating about something that we'll have actual information on in the next week and a half. I'm willing to just wait and see what they say.

Well we had a thread about this same subject (the replacement for the K-3ii) about one and a half year ago or so and with the same participants, the same heated discussion and also with not much of a replacement.

[Mistral75]

I don't believe for a moment that anyone in Germany have any idea of what Pentax is planning in a year or two.

I don't know where asahi man lives but I can tell you that his English is that of somebody coming from Asia, not of a native German speaker.

Besides, it's this very 'anyone in Germany' that, among other things, published the optical formula of the HD Pentax-D FA★ 50mm f/1.4 SDM AW and a picture of its ring-SDM motor in early March.



Source: Pentax DFA* 50mm F1.4 looks similar to Tokina 50mm F1.4: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

[Mistral75]

(...) something that we'll have actual information on in the next week and a half. (...)

Shall we?

[Chris Mak]

It's rather the dent made by Canon in entry-level mirrorless cameras and by Fujifilm in high-end crop mirrorless cameras. 24x36 cameras are something else and most of Sony's growth in this field has come from Canon, Nikon and Pentax owners adding a 24x36 mirrorless camera to their gear.

• Canon: Imaging Systems is profitable. Profitability (= operating result ÷ net sales) = 13.2%. Imaging System = still and video cameras and lenses (61%) + inkjet printers (30%) + others (9%).
• Fujifilm: Imaging Solutions is profitable. Profitability = 14.6%. Imaging Solutions = photo imaging (Instax cameras and films, on-demand photo printing, films and photographic papers; 66.7%) + electronic imaging (compact cameras, ILCs and lenses; 23.2%) + optical devices (industrial lenses and broadcast camera lenses; 10.1%). Profitability mostly stems from the success of the Instax ecosystem, a true cash cow.
• Hasselblad: they almost went belly up after the failure of the Treviso design centre (Lunar, Stellar, HV and Lusso cameras). Current profitability after DJI's cash injection is unknown.
• Leica is highly profitable. Profitability is said to be higher than 20%.
• Nikon: Imaging Products Business is profitable. Profitability = 8.4% (10% when excluding restructuring costs).
• Olympus: Imaging Business is not profitable, see above.
• Panasonic: there is no reporting on the performance of the camera+lens business.
• Phase One: profitability unknown, probably positive since the private equity fund Silverfleet Capital took a 60% stake in Phase One in 2014.
• Ricoh Imaging: profitability unknown. When Ricoh took over the Pentax photography business in 2011, Ricoh's camera business had been bleeding for years and the acquired business was not profitable (profitability ≈ -10%). The business has been severely restructured, downscaled and moved upmarket since then.
• Sony: Imaging Products & Solutions is profitable. Profitability = 11.4%. Imaging Products & Solutions = still and video cameras and lenses (64%) + others (display products such as projectors and medical equipment; 36%).

Well thanks, that brings me up to date!
There is still a business in cameras and lenses after all...

Chris

[Pål Jensen]

In this case, his words agree with what the Pentax representative told Adam:

A K-3 replacement is being developed, but will be later than we had hoped.

That is not the same as a change of plan. Camera cycles for a top model is almost certainly dependent on suitable sensor supply.