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10-04-2018, 07:02 AM   #1906
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
All the recent DSLMs have just gotten fatter and more clunky to the point of not showing any size advantage any longer.

The same goes for DSLM FF lenses, some of which (see Nikon Z) are now 2x the size of same DSLR lenses and not even good performers.

--> 100 people will define the optimum of size versus quality in 100 different ways.
--> for the FF large size seems a complete non-issue for 90% of the market assuming Canon and the small players have access to market reserach data on this.
Dunno about dslm. Dont care about them at the moment. Was talking more about direct competittors of k-3 - Nikons d7xxx line and Canons x0d line. They seem to get lighter by every itreation. And even if we take a FF dslr - Nikon d750, it is lighter than K3.

10-04-2018, 07:03 AM   #1907
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Interesting! In that case, using a few cycles of stop-down metering or digital preview should exercise the aperture mechanism and unstick it.
Yes it should.

As you might expect, this 'condition' has been heavily discussed in the K-30/50 Section.

Apparently, this design goes back to the dawn of the KA-mount; apparently the materials used changed with the K-30, which explains why the mechanism still works in my Super Program. I believe they use {more expensive} stepper motors in the K-7/5/3/1 and the KP.
10-04-2018, 07:49 AM - 1 Like   #1908
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QuoteOriginally posted by Larrymc Quote
So just carry your "smart phone" and leave the DSLR at home or better yet don't buy a DSLR.
I refuse to carry a camera that doesn't have every available void filled with lead ballast. Sometimes I hang a carabiner off the tripod mount and attach a cinder block just to add a little heft I thought was missing.
10-04-2018, 08:07 AM   #1909
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Dunno about dslm. Dont care about them at the moment. Was talking more about direct competittors of k-3 - Nikons d7xxx line and Canons x0d line. They seem to get lighter by every itreation. And even if we take a FF dslr - Nikon d750, it is lighter than K3.
Are you sure about the weight? Wikipedia has the D750 as 40 grams heavier than the K-3.

Some of those lighter bodies are a bit plasticity. Also, the SR system (added coils, magnets, bearings, and mounting plates) in a Pentax body will always make them heavier than Canikons which lack this crucial feature.

Personally, I think there is an optimal camera body weight for both balance with longer lenses and for added stability. Back in ye olden times when I shot film with an OM-4ti (which is 230 grams lighter than a K-3), i'd often bolt a collapsed tripod to the bottom of the body like an improvised steady-cam to improve the stability of the camera.

10-04-2018, 08:17 AM   #1910
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Are you sure about the weight? Wikipedia has the D750 as 40 grams heavier than the K-3.

Some of those lighter bodies are a bit plasticity. Also, the SR system (added coils, magnets, bearings, and mounting plates) in a Pentax body will always make them heavier than Canikons which lack this crucial feature.

Personally, I think there is an optimal camera body weight for both balance with longer lenses and for added stability. Back in ye olden times when I shot film with an OM-4ti (which is 230 grams lighter than a K-3), i'd often bolt a collapsed tripod to the bottom of the body like an improvised steady-cam to improve the stability of the camera.
I really liked the OM system - had the OM-1 to OM-4 I also liked their lenses (for their time) and still have some lenses with mount adapters. I wish I had their original circular fisheye
10-04-2018, 08:29 AM   #1911
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Are you sure about the weight? Wikipedia has the D750 as 40 grams heavier than the K-3.

Some of those lighter bodies are a bit plasticity. Also, the SR system (added coils, magnets, bearings, and mounting plates) in a Pentax body will always make them heavier than Canikons which lack this crucial feature.

Personally, I think there is an optimal camera body weight for both balance with longer lenses and for added stability. Back in ye olden times when I shot film with an OM-4ti (which is 230 grams lighter than a K-3), i'd often bolt a collapsed tripod to the bottom of the body like an improvised steady-cam to improve the stability of the camera.
Got my figures from Pentax and Nikon web sites.
But anyway. Not saying it should be lighter than Canikon counterparts. Just saying that Pentax should try to make the new k3 lighter than previous generation. Not heavier.
10-04-2018, 09:37 AM   #1912
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Some of those lighter bodies are a bit plasticity.
There is nothing wrong with space age materials. Once I've added a {nearly weightless} Hoodman to my Q-7, I have absolutely no trouble taking photos with it.

10-04-2018, 10:11 AM - 1 Like   #1913
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Are you sure about the weight? Wikipedia has the D750 as 40 grams heavier than the K-3.

Some of those lighter bodies are a bit plasticity. Also, the SR system (added coils, magnets, bearings, and mounting plates) in a Pentax body will always make them heavier than Canikons which lack this crucial feature.

Personally, I think there is an optimal camera body weight for both balance with longer lenses and for added stability. Back in ye olden times when I shot film with an OM-4ti (which is 230 grams lighter than a K-3), i'd often bolt a collapsed tripod to the bottom of the body like an improvised steady-cam to improve the stability of the camera.
I sometimes find it handy to use a collapsed monopod as a kind of handle, when I'm too rushed or in an awkward position to extend it properly.
10-04-2018, 10:14 AM   #1914
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Got my figures from Pentax and Nikon web sites.
But anyway. Not saying it should be lighter than Canikon counterparts. Just saying that Pentax should try to make the new k3 lighter than previous generation. Not heavier.
You have to be careful whether the figure includes or excludes the battery.

I'm torn on the subject of camera weight. On one hand I appreciate the denseness of Pentax cameras, on the other I find even my K-7 to be a little much for a full day's outing.
10-04-2018, 11:06 AM   #1915
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I refuse to carry a camera that doesn't have every available void filled with lead ballast. Sometimes I hang a carabiner off the tripod mount and attach a cinder block just to add a little heft I thought was missing.
You do that too??????
10-04-2018, 11:11 AM   #1916
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Are you sure about the weight? Wikipedia has the D750 as 40 grams heavier than the K-3.

Some of those lighter bodies are a bit plasticity. Also, the SR system (added coils, magnets, bearings, and mounting plates) in a Pentax body will always make them heavier than Canikons which lack this crucial feature.

Personally, I think there is an optimal camera body weight for both balance with longer lenses and for added stability. Back in ye olden times when I shot film with an OM-4ti (which is 230 grams lighter than a K-3), i'd often bolt a collapsed tripod to the bottom of the body like an improvised steady-cam to improve the stability of the camera.
I've seen a you tube video of someone attaching a bungee to the tripod mount and standing on the lower end of the bungee then pulling up on the camera to help stabilize the camera. Seemed to work pretty well as a stabilization method.
10-04-2018, 12:47 PM   #1917
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
I refuse to carry a camera that doesn't have every available void filled with lead ballast. Sometimes I hang a carabiner off the tripod mount and attach a cinder block just to add a little heft I thought was missing.
😂 Rofl
10-04-2018, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #1918
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trickortreat Quote
Not really. There are a lot of new material that are lighter than standard plastic/metal used...
And why not try to cut weight. Why do people even want a new version of a camera if they dont want things to be improved.
For example Nikon's d7xxx line lost weight during last few iterations same pattern with Canon's 60-70-80d, and Pentax top of the line crop gained weight.
The thing is, as always, it's a compromise. So, Camera has a very thin stainless steel frame which gains rigidity by being connected to the magnesium alloy body. Removing the stainless steel frame and replacing that with, say, a carbon fibre frame, would be a poor solution because the carbon fibre frame would require a bulkier camera. Likewise, the magnesium alloy body could be changed to plastics, but, it will again result in greater bulk.

So, while that may satisfy those that want a few extra grams it will upset those that want less size.
10-04-2018, 01:25 PM - 2 Likes   #1919
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
The thing is, as always, it's a compromise. So, Camera has a very thin stainless steel frame which gains rigidity by being connected to the magnesium alloy body. Removing the stainless steel frame and replacing that with, say, a carbon fibre frame, would be a poor solution because the carbon fibre frame would require a bulkier camera. Likewise, the magnesium alloy body could be changed to plastics, but, it will again result in greater bulk.

So, while that may satisfy those that want a few extra grams it will upset those that want less size.
So, Mark, what you are saying is that no matter what Ricoh/Pentax does its still doomed......right???
10-04-2018, 01:46 PM   #1920
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
The thing is, as always, it's a compromise. So, Camera has a very thin stainless steel frame which gains rigidity by being connected to the magnesium alloy body. Removing the stainless steel frame and replacing that with, say, a carbon fibre frame, would be a poor solution because the carbon fibre frame would require a bulkier camera. Likewise, the magnesium alloy body could be changed to plastics, but, it will again result in greater bulk.

So, while that may satisfy those that want a few extra grams it will upset those that want less size.
A bit more bulk is not an issue. Pentax cameras arent too big. They are just too heavy. Besides - little more realestate doesnt hurt. More room for direct controls.
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