K3ii replacement

Eskimoky · 10-21-2018, 09:16 PM

I'm deep into lenses but I'm looking at fujifilm or sony,I love my k5 but need more pixels and something with the shoulder screen and built in wireless.

ogl · 10-21-2018, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

And the NX mount is technically wrong. .

In which part?
The problem of Samsung NX is not technical, but extremely marketing.

Kunzite · 10-21-2018, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by ogl

In which part?
The problem of Samsung NX is not technical, but extremely marketing.

Diameter - barely larger than m4/3's.
I said already, that's an APS-C only mount; and it would not be smart at all to use it instead of a proper FF-capable mount.

There's also nothing to gain from using the NX mount. A new lens line would still be needed, it would be every bit as difficult as if they'd design a new mount. Unless they'd want to make a FF, then it would be impossible.

ogl · 10-22-2018, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Diameter - barely larger than m4/3's.
I said already, that's an APS-C only mount; and it would not be smart at all to use it instead of a proper FF-capable mount.

There's also nothing to gain from using the NX mount. A new lens line would still be needed, it would be every bit as difficult as if they'd design a new mount. Unless they'd want to make a FF, then it would be impossible.

Strange explanation.
It' was APS-C system. Fuji and Olympus have no FF system too. Samsung planned to go Fuji's way - MF and APS-C cameras.

Kunzite · 10-22-2018, 03:14 AM - **1 Like**

Nothing strange - just think of it from today's perspective. Yes, we do have the advantage of thinking in retrospective

Perhaps it made sense for Samsung to design an APS-C mount a decade ago. But now, Pentax has (DSLR) FF; Sony has (mirrorless) FF; Canon has (mirrorless) FF; Nikon has (mirrorless) FF; Leica/Panasonic/Sigma have (mirrorless) FF. And Samsung wasn't a success story in any case.
In retrospective, Canon's decision to make the EOS-M was a mistake - as they needed to launch another (incompatible with the EOS-M) mirrorless mount; Sony's mount is barely FF capable.

Yes, there's the option of intentionally limit themselves into the APS-C-only corner. Hint: you can use a FF-capable mount for APS-C cameras.
The only advantage would be the theoretical ability to make a somewhat smaller cameras or lenses... but then, just compare higher-end Olympus and Fuji with - say - an A7RIII...

Besides:
a. there's no incentive for Pentax to "save" the failed Samsung NX mount. None whatsoever. Zero. Nada. Nil. So why pay Samsung for it?

b. years ago a Pentax official hypothetically described in an interview a mirrorless mount which would have to be large diameter.
c. Pentax' strategy is at this time DSLR centric.

Winder · 10-22-2018, 05:38 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Mark Ransom

If Pentax is switching to a new processor, that would explain the delays. I'm sure the software from one camera generation to the next has only undergone minor changes, but switching processors would probably require something more major.

The last time they used a Samsung sensor was the K-7. The major change from the K-7 to the K-5 was replacing it with a Sony sensor, and I'm sure you remember how that turned out. Do you think Samsung has improved greatly since then?

I have no idea what Ricoh will actually do, but the Samsung NX was a technically excellent camera even by current generation standards. Both the sensor and the image processor were and are still cutting edge. I would love to see Samsung and Ricoh partner to bring the NX mount back with a Ricoh/Pentax body and bring put the Samsung sensor and image processor in a FF K-1 body. Ricoh needs a partner. Like Panasonic/Olympus or Panasonic/Leica/Sigma.

**BROO** · 10-22-2018, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by Winder

I have no idea what Ricoh will actually do, but the Samsung NX was a technically excellent camera even by current generation standards. Both the sensor and the image processor were and are still cutting edge. I would love to see Samsung and Ricoh partner to bring the NX mount back with a Ricoh/Pentax body and bring put the Samsung sensor and image processor in a FF K-1 body. Ricoh needs a partner. Like Panasonic/Olympus or Panasonic/Leica/Sigma.

Yes I agree.To start with, the Pentax K mount wasn't designed for ASP-C it is a FF mount. I think Ricoh should look at filling the ASP-C market place with a mirrorless camera (maybe NX mount) and leave the K mount for the OVF(hybrid?) Full Frame DSLR. I doubt that they could compete in the FF mirrorless arena now with a new mount.

Trickortreat · 10-22-2018, 05:56 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Winder

I have no idea what Ricoh will actually do, but the Samsung NX was a technically excellent camera even by current generation standards. Both the sensor and the image processor were and are still cutting edge. I would love to see Samsung and Ricoh partner to bring the NX mount back with a Ricoh/Pentax body and bring put the Samsung sensor and image processor in a FF K-1 body. Ricoh needs a partner. Like Panasonic/Olympus or Panasonic/Leica/Sigma.

Just a sensor wont make Pentax a better option. Currently Pentax has the best sensor on the market (Sony) and it isnt giving Pentax cameras any edge over competition.
And Pentax market share is just too small for a giant like Samsung to build sensors exclusively for Pentax.

reh321 · 10-22-2018, 06:20 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Just a sensor wont make Pentax a better option. Currently Pentax has the best sensor on the market (Sony) and it isnt giving Pentax cameras any edge over competition.

How are you ranking sensors?? What makes Sony "the best sensor on the market"??? If you look at DxOMark tests, the NX-500 did better than the K-3ii even though it had 28mb.
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Pentax-K-3-II-versus-Sa...00___1026_1007

Originally posted by Trickortreat

.And Pentax market share is just too small for a giant like Samsung to build sensors exclusively for Pentax.

Nobody is talking about having Samsung design and build a sensor just for Pentax ..... but it would be little bother for them to switch 'die' and run off a bunch of old-to-them integrated circuits. Yes, I said 'circuits', because the processor is part of that rumor - and this might be a way for Pentax to finally deliver the video that so many clamor for.

Winder · 10-22-2018, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Trickortreat

Just a sensor wont make Pentax a better option. Currently Pentax has the best sensor on the market (Sony) and it isnt giving Pentax cameras any edge over competition.
And Pentax market share is just too small for a giant like Samsung to build sensors exclusively for Pentax.

Who said they were building exclusively for Pentax? The rumor originated with Samsung making some sensors for Fuji and added that they would also supply sensors to Ricoh. We will see what will actually happen if anything.

Trickortreat · 10-22-2018, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Who said they were building exclusively for Pentax? The rumor originated with Samsung making some sensors for Fuji and added that they would also supply sensors to Ricoh. We will see what will actually happen if anything.

The rumored Samsung sensor for Fuji is confirmed to be a Sony sensor.

Kunzite · 10-22-2018, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by reh321

How are you ranking sensors?? What makes Sony "the best sensor on the market"??? If you look at DxOMark tests, the NX-500 did better than the K-3ii even though it had 28mb.
Pentax K-3 II vs Samsung NX500

Nobody is talking about having Samsung design and build a sensor just for Pentax ..... but it would be little bother for them to switch 'die' and run off a bunch of old-to-them integrated circuits. Yes, I said 'circuits', because the processor is part of that rumor - and this might be a way for Pentax to finally deliver the video that so many clamor for.

The K-3's sensor is outdated; and an older camera than the NX500. Still, I'm not sure it's worse than the Samsung. Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

Compare with the KP, which is better.

reh321 · 10-22-2018, 08:08 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Kunzite

The K-3's sensor is outdated; and an older camera than the NX500. Still, I'm not sure it's worse than the Samsung. Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review

Compare with the KP, which is better.

The K-3ii, which I used in the comparison, was released in April 2015, two months after the NX-500 was released; the comparison I provided was totally appropriate.

I doubt if DxOMark will ever evaluate the KP or the KP-1ii, because I'm guessing use of the 'accelerator' will prevent their 'raw' files from meeting DxOMark requirements.

Kunzite · 10-22-2018, 08:23 AM

The K-3 II used the exact same sensor as the K-3 which was launched in 2013.
Look at the comparison I've given: the KP has both less noise and better detail. I don't care about DxOMark's "requirements".

photoptimist · 10-22-2018, 08:30 AM - **2 Likes**

The NX is not a "replacement for the K3" in the sense of what most people on this forum and tread seem to want (do we need a survey to confirm that?). The desired replacement for the K3 seems to be another flagship, APS-C, K-mount camera -- an upgrade to K-3. Changing the mount and obsoleting all the Pentax DA lenses used by current Pentax APS-C camera owners seems like the worst possible strategy.

If Pentax forces current Pentax users to switch mounts, those users might as well look at other brands.

10-22-2018, 08:30 AM - 2 Likes	#2130
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,127	The NX is not a "replacement for the K3" in the sense of what most people on this forum and tread seem to want (do we need a survey to confirm that?). The desired replacement for the K3 seems to be another flagship, APS-C, K-mount camera -- an upgrade to K-3. Changing the mount and obsoleting all the Pentax DA lenses used by current Pentax APS-C camera owners seems like the worst possible strategy. If Pentax forces current Pentax users to switch mounts, those users might as well look at other brands. Last edited by photoptimist; 10-22-2018 at 08:36 AM. Reason: typo

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10-21-2018, 09:16 PM	#2116
Eskimoky New Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 4	I'm deep into lenses but I'm looking at fujifilm or sony,I love my k5 but need more pixels and something with the shoulder screen and built in wireless.

10-21-2018, 10:05 PM	#2117
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Kunzite And the NX mount is technically wrong. . In which part? The problem of Samsung NX is not technical, but extremely marketing.

10-21-2018, 11:14 PM	#2118
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by ogl In which part? The problem of Samsung NX is not technical, but extremely marketing. Diameter - barely larger than m4/3's. I said already, that's an APS-C only mount; and it would not be smart at all to use it instead of a proper FF-capable mount. There's also nothing to gain from using the NX mount. A new lens line would still be needed, it would be every bit as difficult as if they'd design a new mount. Unless they'd want to make a FF, then it would be impossible.

10-22-2018, 01:16 AM	#2119
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Kunzite Diameter - barely larger than m4/3's. I said already, that's an APS-C only mount; and it would not be smart at all to use it instead of a proper FF-capable mount. There's also nothing to gain from using the NX mount. A new lens line would still be needed, it would be every bit as difficult as if they'd design a new mount. Unless they'd want to make a FF, then it would be impossible. Strange explanation. It' was APS-C system. Fuji and Olympus have no FF system too. Samsung planned to go Fuji's way - MF and APS-C cameras.

10-22-2018, 03:14 AM - 1 Like	#2120
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Nothing strange - just think of it from today's perspective. Yes, we do have the advantage of thinking in retrospective Perhaps it made sense for Samsung to design an APS-C mount a decade ago. But now, Pentax has (DSLR) FF; Sony has (mirrorless) FF; Canon has (mirrorless) FF; Nikon has (mirrorless) FF; Leica/Panasonic/Sigma have (mirrorless) FF. And Samsung wasn't a success story in any case. In retrospective, Canon's decision to make the EOS-M was a mistake - as they needed to launch another (incompatible with the EOS-M) mirrorless mount; Sony's mount is barely FF capable. Yes, there's the option of intentionally limit themselves into the APS-C-only corner. Hint: you can use a FF-capable mount for APS-C cameras. The only advantage would be the theoretical ability to make a somewhat smaller cameras or lenses... but then, just compare higher-end Olympus and Fuji with - say - an A7RIII... Besides: a. there's no incentive for Pentax to "save" the failed Samsung NX mount. None whatsoever. Zero. Nada. Nil. So why pay Samsung for it? b. years ago a Pentax official hypothetically described in an interview a mirrorless mount which would have to be large diameter. c. Pentax' strategy is at this time DSLR centric.

10-22-2018, 05:38 AM - 2 Likes	#2121
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Mark Ransom If Pentax is switching to a new processor, that would explain the delays. I'm sure the software from one camera generation to the next has only undergone minor changes, but switching processors would probably require something more major. The last time they used a Samsung sensor was the K-7. The major change from the K-7 to the K-5 was replacing it with a Sony sensor, and I'm sure you remember how that turned out. Do you think Samsung has improved greatly since then? I have no idea what Ricoh will actually do, but the Samsung NX was a technically excellent camera even by current generation standards. Both the sensor and the image processor were and are still cutting edge. I would love to see Samsung and Ricoh partner to bring the NX mount back with a Ricoh/Pentax body and bring put the Samsung sensor and image processor in a FF K-1 body. Ricoh needs a partner. Like Panasonic/Olympus or Panasonic/Leica/Sigma.

10-22-2018, 05:52 AM	#2122
BROO Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 656	Originally posted by Winder I have no idea what Ricoh will actually do, but the Samsung NX was a technically excellent camera even by current generation standards. Both the sensor and the image processor were and are still cutting edge. I would love to see Samsung and Ricoh partner to bring the NX mount back with a Ricoh/Pentax body and bring put the Samsung sensor and image processor in a FF K-1 body. Ricoh needs a partner. Like Panasonic/Olympus or Panasonic/Leica/Sigma. Yes I agree.To start with, the Pentax K mount wasn't designed for ASP-C it is a FF mount. I think Ricoh should look at filling the ASP-C market place with a mirrorless camera (maybe NX mount) and leave the K mount for the OVF(hybrid?) Full Frame DSLR. I doubt that they could compete in the FF mirrorless arena now with a new mount.

10-22-2018, 05:56 AM - 1 Like	#2123
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Originally posted by Winder I have no idea what Ricoh will actually do, but the Samsung NX was a technically excellent camera even by current generation standards. Both the sensor and the image processor were and are still cutting edge. I would love to see Samsung and Ricoh partner to bring the NX mount back with a Ricoh/Pentax body and bring put the Samsung sensor and image processor in a FF K-1 body. Ricoh needs a partner. Like Panasonic/Olympus or Panasonic/Leica/Sigma. Just a sensor wont make Pentax a better option. Currently Pentax has the best sensor on the market (Sony) and it isnt giving Pentax cameras any edge over competition. And Pentax market share is just too small for a giant like Samsung to build sensors exclusively for Pentax.

10-22-2018, 06:20 AM - 1 Like	#2124
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Trickortreat Just a sensor wont make Pentax a better option. Currently Pentax has the best sensor on the market (Sony) and it isnt giving Pentax cameras any edge over competition. How are you ranking sensors?? What makes Sony "the best sensor on the market"??? If you look at DxOMark tests, the NX-500 did better than the K-3ii even though it had 28mb. https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Pentax-K-3-II-versus-Sa...00___1026_1007 Originally posted by Trickortreat .And Pentax market share is just too small for a giant like Samsung to build sensors exclusively for Pentax. Nobody is talking about having Samsung design and build a sensor just for Pentax ..... but it would be little bother for them to switch 'die' and run off a bunch of old-to-them integrated circuits. Yes, I said 'circuits', because the processor is part of that rumor - and this might be a way for Pentax to finally deliver the video that so many clamor for.

10-22-2018, 07:09 AM	#2125
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Trickortreat Just a sensor wont make Pentax a better option. Currently Pentax has the best sensor on the market (Sony) and it isnt giving Pentax cameras any edge over competition. And Pentax market share is just too small for a giant like Samsung to build sensors exclusively for Pentax. Who said they were building exclusively for Pentax? The rumor originated with Samsung making some sensors for Fuji and added that they would also supply sensors to Ricoh. We will see what will actually happen if anything.

10-22-2018, 07:47 AM	#2126
Trickortreat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 561	Originally posted by Winder Who said they were building exclusively for Pentax? The rumor originated with Samsung making some sensors for Fuji and added that they would also supply sensors to Ricoh. We will see what will actually happen if anything. The rumored Samsung sensor for Fuji is confirmed to be a Sony sensor.

10-22-2018, 07:59 AM	#2127
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by reh321 How are you ranking sensors?? What makes Sony "the best sensor on the market"??? If you look at DxOMark tests, the NX-500 did better than the K-3ii even though it had 28mb. Pentax K-3 II vs Samsung NX500 Nobody is talking about having Samsung design and build a sensor just for Pentax ..... but it would be little bother for them to switch 'die' and run off a bunch of old-to-them integrated circuits. Yes, I said 'circuits', because the processor is part of that rumor - and this might be a way for Pentax to finally deliver the video that so many clamor for. The K-3's sensor is outdated; and an older camera than the NX500. Still, I'm not sure it's worse than the Samsung. Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review Compare with the KP, which is better.

10-22-2018, 08:08 AM - 2 Likes	#2128
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,181	Originally posted by Kunzite The K-3's sensor is outdated; and an older camera than the NX500. Still, I'm not sure it's worse than the Samsung. Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review Compare with the KP, which is better. The K-3ii, which I used in the comparison, was released in April 2015, two months after the NX-500 was released; the comparison I provided was totally appropriate. I doubt if DxOMark will ever evaluate the KP or the KP-1ii, because I'm guessing use of the 'accelerator' will prevent their 'raw' files from meeting DxOMark requirements.

10-22-2018, 08:23 AM	#2129
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The K-3 II used the exact same sensor as the K-3 which was launched in 2013. Look at the comparison I've given: the KP has both less noise and better detail. I don't care about DxOMark's "requirements".