K3ii replacement

**Merv-O** · 11-13-2018, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Larrymc

About half of my lens are DA and at my age I really don't need to be investing a lot of money in different lens that's why I didn't buy a K-1 after their price dropped. I've given my daughter my K-50 and some lens so other than my little Panasonic FZ35 and my film Minolta XD11, I'm down to a lightly used K-3 with less than 20,000 shutter actuations. When a new High Spec APS-C body hits the market, I'm grabbing it and plan to have it and the K-3 as my last cameras.

I understand. the K-3 is a solid camera. I'm selling men due to the backward compatibility in the K-1ii (you can have APS-c and FF views in one camera) and use both DA and AF lenses, for my purposes, the K-3 is now redundant (I bought a leftover new K-S2 so I can travel, light and allow my daughter to learn more about photography). Speaking of the K-50....I had one for several years and some of the photos I took with that are still hanging in my office. Excellent clarity and IQ for its time.

biz-engineer · 11-13-2018, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by reh321

So, your figures assume having the main LCD turned off?

The back LCD is a small contributor only. Although, when shooting sports, burst mode, we have the eye stuck to the OVF most of the time and settings fixed in advance, thus possible to save some battery energy by having the back LCD switched off.

ogl · 11-13-2018, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

That's because power management tends to improve with newer models. .

He said about K-5....

If I'm not wrong...

C_Jones · 11-13-2018, 07:51 AM - **1 Like**

What I like about having the K-3 II and the K-1 II is that I can get the aps-c distance with approximately 24 megapixel with the K-3 II, and with the K-1 II I have the 36 megapixel for closer subjects at the full frame level. For example I could use the K-3 II with my Sigma 150-500 DG OS for birding and my K-1 II for portrait or other closer distance subjects with my Pentax 70-200. The K-1 II is capable of cropping at approximately 16 mp, but the K-3 II yields the 24 mp at that crop. It all depends on what the user wants to shoot. If a new aps-c comes out with more megapixels than 24, it will be valuable for distance for birding and wildlife for example.

**Merv-O** · 11-13-2018, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by C_Jones

What I like about having the K-3 II and the K-1 II is that I can get the aps-c distance with approximately 24 megapixel with the K-3 II, and with the K-1 II I have the 36 megapixel for closer subjects at the full frame level. For example I could use the K-3 II with my Sigma 150-500 DG OS for birding and my K-1 II for portrait or other closer distance subjects with my Pentax 70-200. The K-1 II is capable of cropping at approximately 16 mp, but the K-3 II yields the 24 mp at that crop. It all depends on what the user wants to shoot. If a new aps-c comes out with more megapixels than 24, it will be valuable for distance for birding and wildlife for example.

True: the K-3 shoots at a 24mp crop, but the pixel size and absorption of the K-1ii will still produce a superior image. I took with the K-1ii and a old 50-200mm plastic Pentax kit lens....the Bokeh and the density of the detail is as much or more than my K-3 or my K-S2 (20mp). The IQ, the firmware and the technology of a 2018 design just overwhelms the K-3 series at this juncture. Don't misunderstand, the K-3 is more than enough camera for most applications, but it is overshadowed by the K-1 series.

dafbp · 11-13-2018, 02:38 PM

Yes, I was talking about K5 (also valid for K5iis).
And the 1500 is VERY conservative, and I don't have the LCD off, I just have the auto-power off at 1 minute. No flash. Reasonable percentage at 800+ ISO, and that is noticeable in battery life.
I do some reviewing/deleting every now and then.
I have 3 Li90 [for K5 and K5iis], 2 are from when the K5 came out. Don't know how many years that is, but both cameras are way over the rated shutter life, so they've seen more than a few full cycles (I try to avoid that now as I notice a performance drop coinciding with the first drop in the battery meter, and it's not good for the battery).
At the end of the day I'd have 1 empty battery, move the half used from primary to secondary camera, and also charge the one in the secondary (was at 1/2). This was for 3000+.
I you're getting the CIPA or less, and not being heavy on flash, I'd say you have a problem.
Or a very demanding use of battery

**microlight** · 11-13-2018, 02:51 PM

K-3 overshadowed by the K-1 series? Not surprising - they’re different formats. Like saying the 645z overshadows the K-1. Apples and oranges...

**Merv-O** · 11-13-2018, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by microlight

K-3 overshadowed by the K-1 series? Not surprising - they’re different formats. Like saying the 645z overshadows the K-1. Apples and oranges...

Let me clarify K-3 "overshadowed" by the K-1 series. In the 4 years since the K-3 was designed, RIcoh created additional, improved technology that simply makes the images pop. Even in the 15mp crop mode on the K-1ii, the images are beautiful and clean, particularly in raw, with less noise than most K-3 series photos at similar aperture and speeds. I like APS-c formats, I'm talking simply about IQ. If Ricoh/Pentax makes a K-1ii APS-c camera, that would be a great evolutionary tool. The screen would articulate, the stabilization would be 3 stops faster , the focus would improve, and you would have a true "mini-K-1".

The K-3 limits are not in its format, it in its technological limits as a 5 year old design. Still, it renders excellent pictures with the right person at the controls.

**clackers** · 11-13-2018, 04:07 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Merv-O

Let me clarify K-3 "overshadowed" by the K-1 series. In the 4 years since the K-3 was designed, RIcoh created additional, improved technology that simply makes the images pop.

Well, the K-3 sensor is newer than the K-1 sensor, Merv, the K-1 has old tech, basically a double sized K-5 wafer, you can see that in DxO measurements, and it's why it's priced so attractively.

Like the KP, the K-1 II does have the pixel shift option for static subjects, and that onboard noise reduction chip kicking in after ISO400, which some people like and some people don't.

**microlight** · 11-13-2018, 04:46 PM - **2 Likes**

Thanks for the explanation, Merv-O, I understand the point that you're making, although to me, image 'pop' is substantially influenced by the lens in use, as APS-c Limited and DA* users will attest. So this is not just down to improved technology IMHO. IQ isn't only about image 'cleanliness', it's also about resolution (where the K-3 bests the K-1 in crop mode), contrast (where the lens used comes in) plus a lot of other factors. So while it's clear that you're enthusing about the K-1ii (and why wouldn't you?), don't forget that these are indeed two different formats; holistically they have their individual strengths and weaknesses and it would be invidious to apply the same expectations to both. I'll take you back to the comparison of the K-1 with the 645z - the latter is an older design than the former (same approximate vintage as the K-3 in fact), and there are advantages and disadvantages to both of those formats, as there are with the 35mm and APS-c, and in pretty much the same areas. It's like saying that a car overshadows a motorbike because it's got more wheels.

You'd expect me to defend the K-3 - after all, this is the 'K-3II replacement' thread! And if the mooted replacement does turn up next year with some of the K-1ii tech in it, then that would be great, and who knows, the K-3II could become my second camera...

surfar · 11-13-2018, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by reh321

so if Pentax were to sell a 24mp FF camera below $1300, I am in a position to consider it without purchasing any other lenses ....

What about a used K-1, 36mp with a 16mp Apsc built in(you are used to 16mp)....K-1 is rated for 300k accutations.

reh321 · 11-13-2018, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by surfar

What about a used K-1, 36mp with a 16mp Apsc built in(you are used to 16mp)....K-1 is rated for 300k accutations.

My preference right now is for a KP - I was simply saying that I can think of things that Pentax could do with a 24mp FF sensor that would grab my attention - so I'm putting off my decision until I see what does happen in the next year.

The Squirrel Mafia · 11-13-2018, 06:17 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by reh321

My preference right now is for a KP - I was simply saying that I can think of things that Pentax could do with a 24mp FF sensor that would grab my attention - so I'm putting off my decision until I see what does happen in the next year.

Very wise decision. Next year is only a month & a few days away. Then CP+ will arrive at the end of Februeary. Ricoh will probably reveal their "playing cards" around then. Like they say, "Good things come to those who wait."

pts1958 · 11-14-2018, 02:00 AM

Hello, the sounds heard at the photo show in Paris make me think that 2019 should bring us something nice in APSC. the 100 years of Asahi are a great opportunity! Will we have a K2? In a quarter we should know a little more

Wait and see !

ogl · 11-14-2018, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by dafbp

Yes, I was talking about K5 (also valid for K5iis).
And the 1500 is VERY conservative, and I don't have the LCD off, I just have the auto-power off at 1 minute. No flash. Reasonable percentage at 800+ ISO, and that is noticeable in battery life.
I do some reviewing/deleting every now and then.
At the end of the day I'd have 1 empty battery, move the half used from primary to secondary camera, and also charge the one in the secondary (was at 1/2). This was for 3000+.
I you're getting the CIPA or less, and not being heavy on flash, I'd say you have a problem.
Or a very demanding use of battery

It's funny story. If I have CIPA level's shots is normal. It's not a problem. Your story is unique for Pentax cameras. I had K-5 too and several original D-Li90 and never heard such fabs. Yes, I can get approx. 1000 shots with manual lens. And I know such users. But 1500+ with AF-C - you can't prove it.

11-13-2018, 04:46 PM - 2 Likes	#2395
microlight Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,129	Thanks for the explanation, Merv-O, I understand the point that you're making, although to me, image 'pop' is substantially influenced by the lens in use, as APS-c Limited and DA* users will attest. So this is not just down to improved technology IMHO. IQ isn't only about image 'cleanliness', it's also about resolution (where the K-3 bests the K-1 in crop mode), contrast (where the lens used comes in) plus a lot of other factors. So while it's clear that you're enthusing about the K-1ii (and why wouldn't you?), don't forget that these are indeed two different formats; holistically they have their individual strengths and weaknesses and it would be invidious to apply the same expectations to both. I'll take you back to the comparison of the K-1 with the 645z - the latter is an older design than the former (same approximate vintage as the K-3 in fact), and there are advantages and disadvantages to both of those formats, as there are with the 35mm and APS-c, and in pretty much the same areas. It's like saying that a car overshadows a motorbike because it's got more wheels. You'd expect me to defend the K-3 - after all, this is the 'K-3II replacement' thread! And if the mooted replacement does turn up next year with some of the K-1ii tech in it, then that would be great, and who knows, the K-3II could become my second camera... Last edited by microlight; 11-13-2018 at 04:55 PM.

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11-13-2018, 04:15 AM	#2386
Merv-O Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Albums Posts: 2,098	Originally posted by Larrymc About half of my lens are DA and at my age I really don't need to be investing a lot of money in different lens that's why I didn't buy a K-1 after their price dropped. I've given my daughter my K-50 and some lens so other than my little Panasonic FZ35 and my film Minolta XD11, I'm down to a lightly used K-3 with less than 20,000 shutter actuations. When a new High Spec APS-C body hits the market, I'm grabbing it and plan to have it and the K-3 as my last cameras. I understand. the K-3 is a solid camera. I'm selling men due to the backward compatibility in the K-1ii (you can have APS-c and FF views in one camera) and use both DA and AF lenses, for my purposes, the K-3 is now redundant (I bought a leftover new K-S2 so I can travel, light and allow my daughter to learn more about photography). Speaking of the K-50....I had one for several years and some of the photos I took with that are still hanging in my office. Excellent clarity and IQ for its time.

11-13-2018, 04:21 AM	#2387
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by reh321 So, your figures assume having the main LCD turned off? The back LCD is a small contributor only. Although, when shooting sports, burst mode, we have the eye stuck to the OVF most of the time and settings fixed in advance, thus possible to save some battery energy by having the back LCD switched off.

11-13-2018, 04:25 AM	#2388
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by biz-engineer That's because power management tends to improve with newer models. . He said about K-5.... If I'm not wrong...

11-13-2018, 07:51 AM - 1 Like	#2389
C_Jones Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,088	What I like about having the K-3 II and the K-1 II is that I can get the aps-c distance with approximately 24 megapixel with the K-3 II, and with the K-1 II I have the 36 megapixel for closer subjects at the full frame level. For example I could use the K-3 II with my Sigma 150-500 DG OS for birding and my K-1 II for portrait or other closer distance subjects with my Pentax 70-200. The K-1 II is capable of cropping at approximately 16 mp, but the K-3 II yields the 24 mp at that crop. It all depends on what the user wants to shoot. If a new aps-c comes out with more megapixels than 24, it will be valuable for distance for birding and wildlife for example.

11-13-2018, 02:33 PM	#2390
Merv-O Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Albums Posts: 2,098	Originally posted by C_Jones What I like about having the K-3 II and the K-1 II is that I can get the aps-c distance with approximately 24 megapixel with the K-3 II, and with the K-1 II I have the 36 megapixel for closer subjects at the full frame level. For example I could use the K-3 II with my Sigma 150-500 DG OS for birding and my K-1 II for portrait or other closer distance subjects with my Pentax 70-200. The K-1 II is capable of cropping at approximately 16 mp, but the K-3 II yields the 24 mp at that crop. It all depends on what the user wants to shoot. If a new aps-c comes out with more megapixels than 24, it will be valuable for distance for birding and wildlife for example. True: the K-3 shoots at a 24mp crop, but the pixel size and absorption of the K-1ii will still produce a superior image. I took with the K-1ii and a old 50-200mm plastic Pentax kit lens....the Bokeh and the density of the detail is as much or more than my K-3 or my K-S2 (20mp). The IQ, the firmware and the technology of a 2018 design just overwhelms the K-3 series at this juncture. Don't misunderstand, the K-3 is more than enough camera for most applications, but it is overshadowed by the K-1 series.

11-13-2018, 02:38 PM	#2391
dafbp Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 233	Yes, I was talking about K5 (also valid for K5iis). And the 1500 is VERY conservative, and I don't have the LCD off, I just have the auto-power off at 1 minute. No flash. Reasonable percentage at 800+ ISO, and that is noticeable in battery life. I do some reviewing/deleting every now and then. I have 3 Li90 [for K5 and K5iis], 2 are from when the K5 came out. Don't know how many years that is, but both cameras are way over the rated shutter life, so they've seen more than a few full cycles (I try to avoid that now as I notice a performance drop coinciding with the first drop in the battery meter, and it's not good for the battery). At the end of the day I'd have 1 empty battery, move the half used from primary to secondary camera, and also charge the one in the secondary (was at 1/2). This was for 3000+. I you're getting the CIPA or less, and not being heavy on flash, I'd say you have a problem. Or a very demanding use of battery

11-13-2018, 02:51 PM	#2392
microlight Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,129	K-3 overshadowed by the K-1 series? Not surprising - they’re different formats. Like saying the 645z overshadows the K-1. Apples and oranges...

11-13-2018, 03:33 PM	#2393
Merv-O Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Albums Posts: 2,098	Originally posted by microlight K-3 overshadowed by the K-1 series? Not surprising - they’re different formats. Like saying the 645z overshadows the K-1. Apples and oranges... Let me clarify K-3 "overshadowed" by the K-1 series. In the 4 years since the K-3 was designed, RIcoh created additional, improved technology that simply makes the images pop. Even in the 15mp crop mode on the K-1ii, the images are beautiful and clean, particularly in raw, with less noise than most K-3 series photos at similar aperture and speeds. I like APS-c formats, I'm talking simply about IQ. If Ricoh/Pentax makes a K-1ii APS-c camera, that would be a great evolutionary tool. The screen would articulate, the stabilization would be 3 stops faster , the focus would improve, and you would have a true "mini-K-1". The K-3 limits are not in its format, it in its technological limits as a 5 year old design. Still, it renders excellent pictures with the right person at the controls.

11-13-2018, 04:07 PM - 2 Likes	#2394
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Merv-O Let me clarify K-3 "overshadowed" by the K-1 series. In the 4 years since the K-3 was designed, RIcoh created additional, improved technology that simply makes the images pop. Well, the K-3 sensor is newer than the K-1 sensor, Merv, the K-1 has old tech, basically a double sized K-5 wafer, you can see that in DxO measurements, and it's why it's priced so attractively. Like the KP, the K-1 II does have the pixel shift option for static subjects, and that onboard noise reduction chip kicking in after ISO400, which some people like and some people don't.

11-13-2018, 05:58 PM	#2396
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,141	Originally posted by reh321 so if Pentax were to sell a 24mp FF camera below $1300, I am in a position to consider it without purchasing any other lenses .... What about a used K-1, 36mp with a 16mp Apsc built in(you are used to 16mp)....K-1 is rated for 300k accutations.

11-13-2018, 06:04 PM	#2397
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,180	Originally posted by surfar What about a used K-1, 36mp with a 16mp Apsc built in(you are used to 16mp)....K-1 is rated for 300k accutations. My preference right now is for a KP - I was simply saying that I can think of things that Pentax could do with a 24mp FF sensor that would grab my attention - so I'm putting off my decision until I see what does happen in the next year.

11-13-2018, 06:17 PM - 2 Likes	#2398
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,054	Originally posted by reh321 My preference right now is for a KP - I was simply saying that I can think of things that Pentax could do with a 24mp FF sensor that would grab my attention - so I'm putting off my decision until I see what does happen in the next year. Very wise decision. Next year is only a month & a few days away. Then CP+ will arrive at the end of Februeary. Ricoh will probably reveal their "playing cards" around then. Like they say, "Good things come to those who wait."

11-14-2018, 02:00 AM	#2399
pts1958 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Orleans (France) Posts: 103	Hello, the sounds heard at the photo show in Paris make me think that 2019 should bring us something nice in APSC. the 100 years of Asahi are a great opportunity! Will we have a K2? In a quarter we should know a little more Wait and see !

11-14-2018, 05:25 AM	#2400
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by dafbp Yes, I was talking about K5 (also valid for K5iis). And the 1500 is VERY conservative, and I don't have the LCD off, I just have the auto-power off at 1 minute. No flash. Reasonable percentage at 800+ ISO, and that is noticeable in battery life. I do some reviewing/deleting every now and then. At the end of the day I'd have 1 empty battery, move the half used from primary to secondary camera, and also charge the one in the secondary (was at 1/2). This was for 3000+. I you're getting the CIPA or less, and not being heavy on flash, I'd say you have a problem. Or a very demanding use of battery It's funny story. If I have CIPA level's shots is normal. It's not a problem. Your story is unique for Pentax cameras. I had K-5 too and several original D-Li90 and never heard such fabs. Yes, I can get approx. 1000 shots with manual lens. And I know such users. But 1500+ with AF-C - you can't prove it.