Full frame Pentax (Ricoh) GR-E with curved sensor?

Kunzite · 01-05-2018, 10:59 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

because GR people would pay whatever Ricoh charges if the DNA is still there.

I very much doubt that.

**geomez** · 01-05-2018, 11:16 AM

Losing snap focus would be a terrible loss. It's such a great feature for digital cameras without a manual focusing ring.

**monochrome** · 01-05-2018, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I very much doubt that.

I very much believe it.

What I question is how the GR cult would respond to a tiny xatneP printed on the back.

credos4u · 01-06-2018, 02:49 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by monochrome

I very much believe it.

What I question is how the GR cult would respond to a tiny xatneP printed on the back.

i would say they will show much better behaviour than most of us pentaxians did when there was RICOH printed on the 1st series of K-3 bodies....

this is one thing i couldnt care less about... as long as the K-mount lives and cool cameras arrive at the market.
I once surfed a bit on the pentax-maniac-train, but since i also use sony i feel free and am happy about every new camera with the right grip and handling . no matter whats printed on it.

Kunzite · 01-06-2018, 03:21 PM

On DPR's Ricoh Talk Forum there are a few people who see Pentax as an enemy, and fear that Ricoh Imaging would abandon "the Ricoh way" for Pentax

**monochrome** · 01-06-2018, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

On DPR's Ricoh Talk Forum there are a few people who see Pentax as an enemy, and fear that Ricoh Imaging would abandon "the Ricoh way" for Pentax

Were that the case, wouldn’t it be Ricoh that had abandoned the Ricoh Way?

Kunzite · 01-06-2018, 04:01 PM

One recent concern was about the "Pentax team" taking over camera design. It was triggered by the same rumor we're discussing on this thread: "apparently Ricoh will cease all camera production and the GR line will be moved over to the Pentax brand" (from the OP).

stevebrot · 01-06-2018, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

It was triggered by the same rumor we're discussing on this thread

Ah, yes! The rumor that began with rumors traceable back to wishful thinking by forum fan boys. Give the source, a certain amount of paranoia would be perfectly acceptable. I for one would love to see a cult favorite like the GR continue on indefinitely. The GR has certainly earned its chops in the real world and deserves to live on as a logical extension of the concept.

Steve

JPT · 01-06-2018, 05:10 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Kunzite

One recent concern was about the "Pentax team" taking over camera design. It was triggered by the same rumor we're discussing on this thread: "apparently Ricoh will cease all camera production and the GR line will be moved over to the Pentax brand" (from the OP).

Actually, this concern among existing Ricoh users about former Pentax people taking over has been going on much longer than that. I can absolutely understand where it comes from. Most Pentax lines have continued, and full frame added, but look what has happened to the Ricoh line.

PX (waterproof compact) - Discontinued and the Ricoh name placed on the WG series instead.
CX (consumer zoom compact) - Discontinued, with no replacement.
GX (enthusiast compact, EVF option) - Discontinued. There nearest thing to a successor was the MX-1, but that did not have the same controls or EVF option, and it was branded Pentax, with a rather kitschy retro design
GXR - Discontinued
GR - Continued and developed
G800 (extra rugged camera) - Continued, but hardly developed

It's not so much the name that's on the cameras; it's more that so many cameras with former Ricoh DNA have gone. If you liked Ricoh's prior philosophy of quality compacts that offered a bit more of an understated, serious approach at the consumer end, and an extensive levels of control at the enthusiast end, it's mostly gone now. Looking at recent history, it's easy to imagine a scenario of former Pentax management focusing almost exclusively on K-mount, to the detriment of everything else. I'm not saying it's that simple, but Ricoh fans have more reason to be disappointed than Pentaxians.

**Mikesul** · 01-06-2018, 07:25 PM

Don't you think Ricoh abandoned all or most of those cameras as a part of the industry wide flight from small, point and shoot style cameras? I realize some of them were a bit more than point and shoot but in general they seem to fit that trend. Those kinds of cameras do not seem to be being made by anybody anymore.

JPT · 01-06-2018, 09:21 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Mikesul

Don't you think Ricoh abandoned all or most of those cameras as a part of the industry wide flight from small, point and shoot style cameras? I realize some of them were a bit more than point and shoot but in general they seem to fit that trend. Those kinds of cameras do not seem to be being made by anybody anymore.

I think so, but I'm not sure when Ricoh decided that because they did it in a round-about way. First, they integrated two of the compact cameras into to GXR system as lens units. The GX200 became the S10 24-72mm VC unit and the CX6 became the P10 28-300mm VC unit. So in the GXR you had an expensive but reasonably versatile system (compared to compact cameras) which has the Ricoh control scheme. Since they discontinued the GXR, the 28mm GR is all that's left.

I don't think there is much appetite for a return to cameras like the PX and CX lines, but the market seems strong for the more expensive enthusiast compacts. That's where the Ricoh brand belongs in my opinion, and they should have more than one 28mm camera.

I might provoke some eye-rolling with this, but the "real" Ricoh cameras always have a rather unique approach to image processing. The JPEG output is quite the opposite of the "punchy" look that most camera makers seem to go for. They also seem to really focus on the quality of the black and white output. Most of all, it's like they feel noise in images is not necessarily a bad thing as long as it looks like a natural grain and doesn't distract from the image. I don't have a current GR II, but from what I can see it retains these traits.

The proposed GRZ and GRE cameras that this person has started rumors about might be complete fiction - probably are. But if that's the case, I would say that he has good taste in the fictional cameras he makes up. I would buy the GRZ myself and I think the GRE would bring back the wow factor to the GR. I don't think it's impossible. I was truly astonished that they put an APS-C sensor in such a small body. I would love to be astonished again.

Zygonyx · 01-06-2018, 11:37 PM

What about Theta branding ?
Plus i don't see Sony bringing a new hi-tech sensor made by its semiconductor R&D for the benefit of a yet small selling volumes, but new competitor to its RX1...

Kunzite · 01-07-2018, 01:52 AM

@JPT: yes, it's older than my recent example

I've seen people blaming the acquisition of Pentax for the disappearance of those Ricoh lines - it's easier to blame an "outsider" than to accept those products simply didn't work. AFAIK Ricoh made a loss in their camera division, before buying Pentax, and were going nowhere.

Kenn100D · 01-07-2018, 08:38 AM

I think there must be a solution within the company itself to merge the two in order to survive. May it be Pentax or Ricoh brand somebody from the higher ups decided it (including the board), if the rumor was true. Nevertheless we should support both since its the only camera company that exist that produces our beloved cameras. Though times....

BTW .. Still saving to buy the a Set of GXR and MX-1. both i like...

Mistral75 · 01-07-2018, 10:44 AM

Let's be clear: I don't believe in this GR-E rumour.

However, if Ricoh were to label Pentax the successor to the GR II and the next WG, I would interpret this move as a step before divesting the 'traditional', declining camera business: compact cameras and ILCs, as opposed to the 360° cameras (Theta) and other development such as cameras for autonomous cars which would keep the Ricoh label and be further developed by Ricoh.

01-06-2018, 11:37 PM	#72
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	What about Theta branding ? Plus i don't see Sony bringing a new hi-tech sensor made by its semiconductor R&D for the benefit of a yet small selling volumes, but new competitor to its RX1... Last edited by Zygonyx; 01-06-2018 at 11:42 PM.

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01-05-2018, 10:59 AM - 1 Like	#61
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by monochrome because GR people would pay whatever Ricoh charges if the DNA is still there. I very much doubt that.

01-05-2018, 11:16 AM	#62
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	Losing snap focus would be a terrible loss. It's such a great feature for digital cameras without a manual focusing ring.

01-05-2018, 11:36 AM	#63
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Kunzite I very much doubt that. I very much believe it. What I question is how the GR cult would respond to a tiny xatneP printed on the back.

01-06-2018, 02:49 PM - 1 Like	#64
credos4u Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 53	Originally posted by monochrome I very much believe it. What I question is how the GR cult would respond to a tiny xatneP printed on the back. i would say they will show much better behaviour than most of us pentaxians did when there was RICOH printed on the 1st series of K-3 bodies.... this is one thing i couldnt care less about... as long as the K-mount lives and cool cameras arrive at the market. I once surfed a bit on the pentax-maniac-train, but since i also use sony i feel free and am happy about every new camera with the right grip and handling . no matter whats printed on it.

01-06-2018, 03:21 PM	#65
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	On DPR's Ricoh Talk Forum there are a few people who see Pentax as an enemy, and fear that Ricoh Imaging would abandon "the Ricoh way" for Pentax

01-06-2018, 03:27 PM	#66
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Kunzite On DPR's Ricoh Talk Forum there are a few people who see Pentax as an enemy, and fear that Ricoh Imaging would abandon "the Ricoh way" for Pentax Were that the case, wouldn’t it be Ricoh that had abandoned the Ricoh Way?

01-06-2018, 04:01 PM	#67
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	One recent concern was about the "Pentax team" taking over camera design. It was triggered by the same rumor we're discussing on this thread: "apparently Ricoh will cease all camera production and the GR line will be moved over to the Pentax brand" (from the OP).

01-06-2018, 04:29 PM	#68
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Kunzite It was triggered by the same rumor we're discussing on this thread Ah, yes! The rumor that began with rumors traceable back to wishful thinking by forum fan boys. Give the source, a certain amount of paranoia would be perfectly acceptable. I for one would love to see a cult favorite like the GR continue on indefinitely. The GR has certainly earned its chops in the real world and deserves to live on as a logical extension of the concept. Steve

01-06-2018, 05:10 PM - 2 Likes	#69
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	Originally posted by Kunzite One recent concern was about the "Pentax team" taking over camera design. It was triggered by the same rumor we're discussing on this thread: "apparently Ricoh will cease all camera production and the GR line will be moved over to the Pentax brand" (from the OP). Actually, this concern among existing Ricoh users about former Pentax people taking over has been going on much longer than that. I can absolutely understand where it comes from. Most Pentax lines have continued, and full frame added, but look what has happened to the Ricoh line. PX (waterproof compact) - Discontinued and the Ricoh name placed on the WG series instead. CX (consumer zoom compact) - Discontinued, with no replacement. GX (enthusiast compact, EVF option) - Discontinued. There nearest thing to a successor was the MX-1, but that did not have the same controls or EVF option, and it was branded Pentax, with a rather kitschy retro design GXR - Discontinued GR - Continued and developed G800 (extra rugged camera) - Continued, but hardly developed It's not so much the name that's on the cameras; it's more that so many cameras with former Ricoh DNA have gone. If you liked Ricoh's prior philosophy of quality compacts that offered a bit more of an understated, serious approach at the consumer end, and an extensive levels of control at the enthusiast end, it's mostly gone now. Looking at recent history, it's easy to imagine a scenario of former Pentax management focusing almost exclusively on K-mount, to the detriment of everything else. I'm not saying it's that simple, but Ricoh fans have more reason to be disappointed than Pentaxians.

01-06-2018, 07:25 PM	#70
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Don't you think Ricoh abandoned all or most of those cameras as a part of the industry wide flight from small, point and shoot style cameras? I realize some of them were a bit more than point and shoot but in general they seem to fit that trend. Those kinds of cameras do not seem to be being made by anybody anymore.

01-06-2018, 09:21 PM - 1 Like	#71
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	Originally posted by Mikesul Don't you think Ricoh abandoned all or most of those cameras as a part of the industry wide flight from small, point and shoot style cameras? I realize some of them were a bit more than point and shoot but in general they seem to fit that trend. Those kinds of cameras do not seem to be being made by anybody anymore. I think so, but I'm not sure when Ricoh decided that because they did it in a round-about way. First, they integrated two of the compact cameras into to GXR system as lens units. The GX200 became the S10 24-72mm VC unit and the CX6 became the P10 28-300mm VC unit. So in the GXR you had an expensive but reasonably versatile system (compared to compact cameras) which has the Ricoh control scheme. Since they discontinued the GXR, the 28mm GR is all that's left. I don't think there is much appetite for a return to cameras like the PX and CX lines, but the market seems strong for the more expensive enthusiast compacts. That's where the Ricoh brand belongs in my opinion, and they should have more than one 28mm camera. I might provoke some eye-rolling with this, but the "real" Ricoh cameras always have a rather unique approach to image processing. The JPEG output is quite the opposite of the "punchy" look that most camera makers seem to go for. They also seem to really focus on the quality of the black and white output. Most of all, it's like they feel noise in images is not necessarily a bad thing as long as it looks like a natural grain and doesn't distract from the image. I don't have a current GR II, but from what I can see it retains these traits. The proposed GRZ and GRE cameras that this person has started rumors about might be complete fiction - probably are. But if that's the case, I would say that he has good taste in the fictional cameras he makes up. I would buy the GRZ myself and I think the GRE would bring back the wow factor to the GR. I don't think it's impossible. I was truly astonished that they put an APS-C sensor in such a small body. I would love to be astonished again.

01-07-2018, 01:52 AM	#73
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	@JPT: yes, it's older than my recent example I've seen people blaming the acquisition of Pentax for the disappearance of those Ricoh lines - it's easier to blame an "outsider" than to accept those products simply didn't work. AFAIK Ricoh made a loss in their camera division, before buying Pentax, and were going nowhere.

01-07-2018, 08:38 AM	#74
Kenn100D Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Paranaque City, Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 697	I think there must be a solution within the company itself to merge the two in order to survive. May it be Pentax or Ricoh brand somebody from the higher ups decided it (including the board), if the rumor was true. Nevertheless we should support both since its the only camera company that exist that produces our beloved cameras. Though times.... BTW .. Still saving to buy the a Set of GXR and MX-1. both i like...

01-07-2018, 10:44 AM	#75
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Let's be clear: I don't believe in this GR-E rumour. However, if Ricoh were to label Pentax the successor to the GR II and the next WG, I would interpret this move as a step before divesting the 'traditional', declining camera business: compact cameras and ILCs, as opposed to the 360° cameras (Theta) and other development such as cameras for autonomous cars which would keep the Ricoh label and be further developed by Ricoh.