K-1 Mark II!

awscreo · 01-27-2018, 06:42 AM

What if instead of doing a K-1 mark 2 they make K-2, a 24-30mp ff camera with better af, higher FPS, better low light and better video, similar price. Aimed at sport, street, journalists etc, stuff that K-1 isn't great at. Hypothetically, would it dig into K-1 sales, or would it create a good alternative for people that needed all those features and didn't get K-1 for that reason?

K-1 doesn't seem old enough to be outright replaced, I can't think of many features we're missing that warrant a new version right now, but I guess it is almost 2 years since it's release, and whatever gets announced wouldn't be released for another year or so, making it a 3 year cycle, pretty reasonable

Nicolas06 · 01-27-2018, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

But $1000 - the lower limit you mentioned - is almost half the introduction price. If that's how little you want to pay for a FF camera, no offense but get a Sony A7. An inferior camera from every point of view.
At the current price, especially at the current U.S. price, the K-1 is tremendous value for money. And no, I don't think it's a good idea to go into a price war with the aforementioned Sony A7.

Pentax tried once to play the "cheap" game, its effects can be seen even today.

I brought the Sony A7 for Christmas, got it for €900 with kit lens. So that make it €750 body only. This is a great price. K1 isn't much better, no really better AF, heavier, bigger, back/front focus issues inherent to its AF system... Why shall I pay much more for that sort of things. Doesn't at all make sense.

Kunzite · 01-27-2018, 06:46 AM - **3 Likes**

Then, what are you doing here?

**ffking** · 01-27-2018, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by awscreo

What if instead of doing a K-1 mark 2 they make K-2, a 24-30mp ff camera with better af, higher FPS, better low light and better video, similar price. Aimed at sport, street, journalists etc, stuff that K-1 isn't great at. Hypothetically,

It's a perfectly viable way to go, but I think it's a bit against the logic of the direction of travel of current lens development - they seem to be making ultimate IQ their thing - not quite a USP, but a good value proposition in that area. Still, as someone who wasn't expecting a new FF yet at all, what do I know?

**monochrome** · 01-27-2018, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

645D was based on tech developed for K7, which was released a year before 645D.
K5 where mostly a K7 with a new sensor.

K3 was released 6 month before 645Z.

That was my memory but I didn’t believe myself, so I looked at the release dates of the cameras. The point is Ricoh spreads technology development costs over many formats to reduce cost per unit (and make lower volume 645 and K-1 even possible). Whatever new stuff should show up in a rumored K-1 Super would likely also appear in the next 645 and a new flagship APSc body. The order of release doesn’t really change that.

Thanks for correcting.

Nicolas06 · 01-27-2018, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I'm not talking about having some cheap cameras; but having a strategy built around "cheap". We can see the damage when people say, a K-1 should cost no more than the cheapest, lousiest piece of *@&# FF camera out there.

It is actually BECAUSE they don't have a strategy for people that want the price and don't have a body that can keep up with high end they are there.

The K1-II can fix both issue. I don't see why do you complain. Would that hurt you that much to have many happy people getting a K1 at a low price and people that want the latest greatest to get a more refined product than K1 ? Maybe BSI, 4K, new AF module, a bit faster bursts and deeper buffer...

What the issue with that, really ? You really want them to fail that much just because you got the K1 for $300-500 more when it came out? Come on.

D1N0 · 01-27-2018, 07:03 AM - **2 Likes**

Nicolas06 · 01-27-2018, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Then, what are you doing here?

I am not worthy enough for you with K3, DA10-17, DA15, DA21, FA31, FA77, FA135 to participate to Pentax forum because I brought gear from a competitor too ?

Kunzite · 01-27-2018, 07:08 AM - **3 Likes**

Nicolas, you just stated that you'd have to be paid to use a K-1 before editing it out. Why would they take your advice regarding the K-1's pricing? Why would they take your advice on a K-1 mark II for that matter, it's obviously yet another camera you'd have to be paid to use?
Isn't it better to listen to actual, and potential customers?

P.S. It's not nice to edit your posts after people responds to it, then attack these people. My question was: what is someone claiming that he would have to be paid to use a K-1 doing here?
And yes, next time I'll make sure to quote you even if it breaks netiquette.

**BigMackCam** · 01-27-2018, 07:19 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Nicolas06

I brought the Sony A7 for Christmas, got it for €900 with kit lens. So that make it €750 body only. This is a great price. K1 isn't much better, no really better AF, heavier, bigger, back/front focus issues inherent to its AF system... Why shall I pay much more for that sort of things. Doesn't at all make sense.

Nicolas, I have the A7 MkII - the successor to your A7, with lossless uncompressed RAW capability. It's a fantastic camera with excellent IQ, and yes - it costs less than the K-1. But the A7II, like your A7, is a mirrorless system camera with lenses, while the K-1 is a DSLR with different lenses. They both offer completely different shooting experiences, and they aren't - IMHO - directly comparable (except for sensor format). The K-1 also offers much higher resolution, and whilst I'm very happy with the IQ of my A7II, I've compared RAW images side by side between the two cameras. You can see a big difference due to that extra 12MP.

Of course, every photographer is different and has different priorities. For the photography I do, the cropping room I need, and the reproduction sizes I'm interested in, 24MP on FF is ample. Why, I'm happy with 10MP on APS-C from my K10D / GX-10

For you, I've no doubt the A7 was a good choice.

If I didn't already have my Hasselblad HV and Sony A-mount lenses, I would be all over the K-1 - but in addition to the A7II, not instead of it...

awscreo · 01-27-2018, 07:28 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Nicolas06

I brought the Sony A7 for Christmas, got it for €900 with kit lens. So that make it €750 body only. This is a great price. K1 isn't much better, no really better AF, heavier, bigger, back/front focus issues inherent to its AF system... Why shall I pay much more for that sort of things. Doesn't at all make sense.

It's much better though, a7 iq falls apart at high iso, lower res, battery life, build quality, old generation evf with lag and grain in low light. Plus of course pixelshift, in body stabilization, astrotracer, real weather sealing, much higher dynamic range, tonal range, really good high iso performance etc.

If you like a7 - great, vote with your wallet, which you did. But get your facts straight before attacking other people's choices.

**BigMackCam** · 01-27-2018, 07:32 AM - **2 Likes**

Folks, comparisons between kit are always useful, and I know I replied to an A7-related post in this thread myself, but let's get back to the K-1 II. We have the non-Pentax forum for other cameras.

Thanks!

Nicolas06 · 01-27-2018, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by awscreo

What if instead of doing a K-1 mark 2 they make K-2, a 24-30mp ff camera with better af, higher FPS, better low light and better video, similar price. Aimed at sport, street, journalists etc, stuff that K-1 isn't great at. Hypothetically, would it dig into K-1 sales, or would it create a good alternative for people that needed all those features and didn't get K-1 for that reason?

It would dig into K1 sales and it would broaden the sales overall by people more interrested by that set of compromizes. So it would be doing both.

Nicolas06 · 01-27-2018, 07:38 AM - **1 Like**

Deleted => to comply to moderator advice.

Tatouzou · 01-27-2018, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

1) Why does releasing a new FF body mean that a new APS-C body is not also in development? Is Pentax that short of staff that they cannot work on more than one project at a time?

2) Why does releasing a new FF body mean everyone owning a K-1 has to upgrade? Are we required to buy every new body that is released?

3) Why does releasing a new FF body mean it has to be much if any different than the K-1? Why can it not just be an incremental improvement over the K-1 for NEW purchasers of the K-1?

4) Why does releasing a new FF body mean that lenses will be delayed? Again, is Pentax so short of staff that only one thing can be worked on at a time?

Just random rhetorical questions sparked by reading this thread. No answers really needed, just food for thought.

Not enough sales = not enough cashflow = no money for R&D = out of business soon!

01-27-2018, 06:45 AM	#167
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Kunzite But $1000 - the lower limit you mentioned - is almost half the introduction price. If that's how little you want to pay for a FF camera, no offense but get a Sony A7. An inferior camera from every point of view. At the current price, especially at the current U.S. price, the K-1 is tremendous value for money. And no, I don't think it's a good idea to go into a price war with the aforementioned Sony A7. Pentax tried once to play the "cheap" game, its effects can be seen even today. I brought the Sony A7 for Christmas, got it for €900 with kit lens. So that make it €750 body only. This is a great price. K1 isn't much better, no really better AF, heavier, bigger, back/front focus issues inherent to its AF system... Why shall I pay much more for that sort of things. Doesn't at all make sense. Last edited by Nicolas06; 01-27-2018 at 06:53 AM.

01-27-2018, 06:57 AM	#171
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Kunzite I'm not talking about having some cheap cameras; but having a strategy built around "cheap". We can see the damage when people say, a K-1 should cost no more than the cheapest, lousiest piece of @&# FF camera out there. It is actually BECAUSE they don't have a strategy for people that want the price and don't have a body that can keep up with high end they are there. The K1-II can fix both issue. I don't see why do you complain. Would that hurt you that much to have many happy people getting a K1 at a low price and people that want the latest greatest to get a more refined product than K1 ? Maybe BSI, 4K, new AF module, a bit faster bursts and deeper buffer... What the issue with that, really ? You really want them to fail that much just because you got the K1 for $300-500 more when it came out? Come on. Last edited by Nicolas06; 01-27-2018 at 07:07 AM.*

01-27-2018, 07:04 AM	#173
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Kunzite Then, what are you doing here? I am not worthy enough for you with K3, DA10-17, DA15, DA21, FA31, FA77, FA135 to participate to Pentax forum because I brought gear from a competitor too ? Last edited by Nicolas06; 01-27-2018 at 07:10 AM.

01-27-2018, 07:32 AM - 2 Likes	#177
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Folks, comparisons between kit are always useful, and I know I replied to an A7-related post in this thread myself, but let's get back to the K-1 II. We have the non-Pentax forum for other cameras. Thanks! Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-27-2018 at 07:47 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Pentax K3 ii vs Canon 5D mark ii	mogge	Welcomes and Introductions	49	03-27-2016 02:39 AM
两部K-r，月内新机，全部出现反光板乱跳问题！	anna	Pentax DSLR Discussion	3	09-27-2011 11:35 AM
My God! 'Independent Lens'-- Mark Hogencamp	Ira	Photographic Technique	27	05-06-2011 08:32 AM
a discussion on god... god i was bored..	Gooshin	General Talk	9	02-11-2010 01:01 PM

01-27-2018, 06:42 AM	#166
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	What if instead of doing a K-1 mark 2 they make K-2, a 24-30mp ff camera with better af, higher FPS, better low light and better video, similar price. Aimed at sport, street, journalists etc, stuff that K-1 isn't great at. Hypothetically, would it dig into K-1 sales, or would it create a good alternative for people that needed all those features and didn't get K-1 for that reason? K-1 doesn't seem old enough to be outright replaced, I can't think of many features we're missing that warrant a new version right now, but I guess it is almost 2 years since it's release, and whatever gets announced wouldn't be released for another year or so, making it a 3 year cycle, pretty reasonable

01-27-2018, 06:46 AM - 3 Likes	#168
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Then, what are you doing here?

01-27-2018, 06:50 AM	#169
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by awscreo What if instead of doing a K-1 mark 2 they make K-2, a 24-30mp ff camera with better af, higher FPS, better low light and better video, similar price. Aimed at sport, street, journalists etc, stuff that K-1 isn't great at. Hypothetically, It's a perfectly viable way to go, but I think it's a bit against the logic of the direction of travel of current lens development - they seem to be making ultimate IQ their thing - not quite a USP, but a good value proposition in that area. Still, as someone who wasn't expecting a new FF yet at all, what do I know?

01-27-2018, 06:54 AM	#170
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Fogel70 645D was based on tech developed for K7, which was released a year before 645D. K5 where mostly a K7 with a new sensor. K3 was released 6 month before 645Z. That was my memory but I didn’t believe myself, so I looked at the release dates of the cameras. The point is Ricoh spreads technology development costs over many formats to reduce cost per unit (and make lower volume 645 and K-1 even possible). Whatever new stuff should show up in a rumored K-1 Super would likely also appear in the next 645 and a new flagship APSc body. The order of release doesn’t really change that. Thanks for correcting.

01-27-2018, 07:03 AM - 2 Likes	#172
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802

01-27-2018, 07:08 AM - 3 Likes	#174
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Nicolas, you just stated that you'd have to be paid to use a K-1 before editing it out. Why would they take your advice regarding the K-1's pricing? Why would they take your advice on a K-1 mark II for that matter, it's obviously yet another camera you'd have to be paid to use? Isn't it better to listen to actual, and potential customers? P.S. It's not nice to edit your posts after people responds to it, then attack these people. My question was: what is someone claiming that he would have to be paid to use a K-1 doing here? And yes, next time I'll make sure to quote you even if it breaks netiquette.

01-27-2018, 07:19 AM - 1 Like	#175
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Originally posted by Nicolas06 I brought the Sony A7 for Christmas, got it for €900 with kit lens. So that make it €750 body only. This is a great price. K1 isn't much better, no really better AF, heavier, bigger, back/front focus issues inherent to its AF system... Why shall I pay much more for that sort of things. Doesn't at all make sense. Nicolas, I have the A7 MkII - the successor to your A7, with lossless uncompressed RAW capability. It's a fantastic camera with excellent IQ, and yes - it costs less than the K-1. But the A7II, like your A7, is a mirrorless system camera with lenses, while the K-1 is a DSLR with different lenses. They both offer completely different shooting experiences, and they aren't - IMHO - directly comparable (except for sensor format). The K-1 also offers much higher resolution, and whilst I'm very happy with the IQ of my A7II, I've compared RAW images side by side between the two cameras. You can see a big difference due to that extra 12MP. Of course, every photographer is different and has different priorities. For the photography I do, the cropping room I need, and the reproduction sizes I'm interested in, 24MP on FF is ample. Why, I'm happy with 10MP on APS-C from my K10D / GX-10 For you, I've no doubt the A7 was a good choice. If I didn't already have my Hasselblad HV and Sony A-mount lenses, I would be all over the K-1 - but in addition to the A7II, not instead of it...

01-27-2018, 07:28 AM - 1 Like	#176
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by Nicolas06 I brought the Sony A7 for Christmas, got it for €900 with kit lens. So that make it €750 body only. This is a great price. K1 isn't much better, no really better AF, heavier, bigger, back/front focus issues inherent to its AF system... Why shall I pay much more for that sort of things. Doesn't at all make sense. It's much better though, a7 iq falls apart at high iso, lower res, battery life, build quality, old generation evf with lag and grain in low light. Plus of course pixelshift, in body stabilization, astrotracer, real weather sealing, much higher dynamic range, tonal range, really good high iso performance etc. If you like a7 - great, vote with your wallet, which you did. But get your facts straight before attacking other people's choices.

01-27-2018, 07:34 AM	#178
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by awscreo What if instead of doing a K-1 mark 2 they make K-2, a 24-30mp ff camera with better af, higher FPS, better low light and better video, similar price. Aimed at sport, street, journalists etc, stuff that K-1 isn't great at. Hypothetically, would it dig into K-1 sales, or would it create a good alternative for people that needed all those features and didn't get K-1 for that reason? It would dig into K1 sales and it would broaden the sales overall by people more interrested by that set of compromizes. So it would be doing both.

01-27-2018, 07:38 AM - 1 Like	#179
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Deleted => to comply to moderator advice.

01-27-2018, 07:40 AM	#180
Tatouzou Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 175	Originally posted by jatrax 1) Why does releasing a new FF body mean that a new APS-C body is not also in development? Is Pentax that short of staff that they cannot work on more than one project at a time? 2) Why does releasing a new FF body mean everyone owning a K-1 has to upgrade? Are we required to buy every new body that is released? 3) Why does releasing a new FF body mean it has to be much if any different than the K-1? Why can it not just be an incremental improvement over the K-1 for NEW purchasers of the K-1? 4) Why does releasing a new FF body mean that lenses will be delayed? Again, is Pentax so short of staff that only one thing can be worked on at a time? Just random rhetorical questions sparked by reading this thread. No answers really needed, just food for thought. Not enough sales = not enough cashflow = no money for R&D = out of business soon!