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01-28-2018, 01:49 PM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I take your points, but the sensor format and physical size of the camera and lenses are a greater part of the buying decision than you give them credit for. Canon has APS-C models with greater resolution than the 5D MkIII and 1DX MkII, and I don't believe the full-frame model sales are affected. That aside, I don't see much point in going above 24MP for APS-C. I believe APS-C users are more interested in increased high ISO performance, better AF, flagship build and features etc.

You might have a point regarding a very high resolution full-frame model cutting into "645Z II" sales, but perhaps not if there's a big resolution jump for the medium format model...
i totally understand where you're coming from, but:

think positive, want everything

you can't compare what canon does to what pentax does.... just doesn't make sense. canon does everything... 50mp ff, 30+mp ff, 24+- mp ff, bazillion crop cameras, milc, etc... pentax can only do a small handful of things. canon will always be canon, while pentax has to be very measured if they're going to survive.

every new model of every new camera has more mp than the last, universal, across every brand(insert exceptions to the rule here). this is the way things are going, and this is the way things will continue to go until we're all using 200mp at 200fps if pentax stays at 24mp, all smaller/lighter systems will have caught up and that puts all pentax crop cameras/lenses in a difficult situation. i take for granted that with pentax, better high iso/af/build are a given with every new camera... although faster af really is coming through new lenses, not new cameras.

now everyone chant "three new cameras, three new cameras, three new cameras" while taking a picture in the mirror, and wait for the ricoh genie to appear. also, ricoh should make a medium format printer like the canon pro-100 so all of my ink purchases don't go towards arming the canon army (or whatever).

01-28-2018, 01:55 PM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxke Quote
Probably I am not thinking out of the box enough, but besides the usual suspects (better sensor, bigger buffer, better AF), I can't imagine much that can be approved on the K-1. Now if they can come out with the K1 in a smaller and lighter form factor, that would be something (hey, I can think out of the box...) :-p
AF could be improved a lot though: I believe K-1 uses basically the same AF module that was designed for crop cameras. As a result we can have AF for the middle of the frame only. Developing a new AF module is a huge task, somehow I doubt this will happen.

I personally will be really happy to see the mirrorless FF camera with a K mount. But this is even less likely to happen.
01-28-2018, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
every new model of every new camera has more mp than the last
insert...$ony A7r3...Oly Omd 10 mk3....Pano G9/Gh5s....Fuji XE-3 so they are only mirrorless!

QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
wait for the ricoh genie to appear
The prime lens engineers are waiting too![COLOR="Silver"]

Last edited by surfar; 01-28-2018 at 02:07 PM.
01-28-2018, 02:14 PM - 2 Likes   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
you can't compare what canon does to what pentax does.... just doesn't make sense. canon does everything... 50mp ff, 30+mp ff, 24+- mp ff, bazillion crop cameras, milc, etc... pentax can only do a small handful of things. canon will always be canon, while pentax has to be very measured if they're going to survive.
Agreed... and yet, Canon wouldn't compromise sales of its full-frame models by releasing APS-C cameras that overlap too closely. My point is 24, 28 or even 30MP APS-C is still APS-C, while 24, 36 or 42MP full-frame is still full-frame. Different formats, different sizes, different lenses. There's always going to be some overlap in functionality and performance, but I think APS-C and full-frame are different markets, to some extent.

QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
every new model of every new camera has more mp than the last, universal, across every brand(insert exceptions to the rule here). this is the way things are going, and this is the way things will continue to go until we're all using 200mp at 200fps
Yes, kind of, but surrounding technology is still a limiting factor. Note the Sony A9 with its mega-fast fps is still "only" 24MP, while the A7RIII with 42MP manages half the fps (though still very fast), And both take significant time clearing their buffers. For the resolution to rise much further than it has already, surrounding technologies need to improve. So, too, does the size of computer hard disk and SSD storage, and processor power for image processing software, to cope with the increasingly huge files.

If Ricoh had to choose between greater resolution (for any format camera) vs better high ISO, better fps, faster buffer clearing times, better AF etc., I suspect potential buyers would consider greater resolution of somewhat less importance.

Of course, my opinions are worth exactly what I charge for them, and I've been known to be wrong before (actually, more often than I'm right ). It'll be interesting to see what's released next

01-28-2018, 02:31 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
It'll be interesting to see what's released next
Will it ever!...Even an announcement is rare these days....I'm sceptical,but like surprises.
01-28-2018, 02:42 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Will it ever!...Even an announcement is rare these days....I'm sceptical,but like surprises.
Oh yea of little faith
01-28-2018, 02:44 PM - 1 Like   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
every new model of every new camera has more mp than the last, universal, across every brand(insert exceptions to the rule here). this is the way things are going, and this is the way things will continue to go until we're all using 200mp at 200fps if pentax stays at 24mp, all smaller/lighter systems will have caught up and that puts all pentax crop cameras/lenses in a difficult situation. i take for granted that with pentax, better high iso/af/build are a given with every new camera... although faster af really is coming through new lenses, not new cameras.
Two things in this paragraph I don't agree with

(1) I'm not convinced there is an unending climb to denser and denser sensors. We are already getting more detail than we ever got with film. Denser sensors create issues with Color Depth, Dynamic Range, and Noise. Denser sensors put more of a load on the processor and queue. 36mp {or whatever is available} done better {especially at higher and higher ISO values} may have more of a market than more MP.

(2) AF is more than just lenses. Canikon use a special processor to achieve better AF in their top models. There is no reason Pentax couldn't do the same thing.




Added: Maybe the primary difference between the K-1 and the K-1ii is new AF hardware.

Last edited by reh321; 01-28-2018 at 02:51 PM. Reason: added comment
01-28-2018, 02:49 PM - 1 Like   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm not convinced there is an unending climb to denser and denser sensors
Yes, correct....In a recent interview i saw,the $ony VP(Kimio Maki) commented that they thought that MPs had kinda reached their limit.Indicating why they stuck with 42mp in the A7riii.


Last edited by surfar; 01-28-2018 at 03:01 PM.
01-28-2018, 03:44 PM - 1 Like   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Two things in this paragraph I don't agree with

(1) I'm not convinced there is an unending climb to denser and denser sensors. We are already getting more detail than we ever got with film. Denser sensors create issues with Color Depth, Dynamic Range, and Noise. Denser sensors put more of a load on the processor and queue. 36mp {or whatever is available} done better {especially at higher and higher ISO values} may have more of a market than more MP.

(2) AF is more than just lenses. Canikon use a special processor to achieve better AF in their top models. There is no reason Pentax couldn't do the same thing.




Added: Maybe the primary difference between the K-1 and the K-1ii is new AF hardware.
How much difference is there really between 36 and 42 megapixels. The bigger difference is the read out speed of the sensors. The 42 megapixel sensor allows for 10 frames per second versus, what, 4.5 with the 36 megapixel sensor? From what I can see, the 42 is not quite as good at low iso (slightly lower dynamic range), but actually better with high iso situations. I think I would be fine with that, particularly since for low iso situations I can always use pixel shift when I need max dynamic range and that would put them close enough as makes no difference.

I don't need more than 36 megapixels, but having better frame rates and (in particular) buffer size would be awfully nice.
01-28-2018, 05:27 PM - 1 Like   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by sculptor666 Quote
i totally understand where you're coming from, but:

think positive, want everything

you can't compare what canon does to what pentax does.... just doesn't make sense. canon does everything... 50mp ff, 30+mp ff, 24+- mp ff, bazillion crop cameras, milc, etc... pentax can only do a small handful of things. canon will always be canon, while pentax has to be very measured if they're going to survive.

every new model of every new camera has more mp than the last, universal, across every brand(insert exceptions to the rule here). this is the way things are going, and this is the way things will continue to go until we're all using 200mp at 200fps if pentax stays at 24mp, all smaller/lighter systems will have caught up and that puts all pentax crop cameras/lenses in a difficult situation. i take for granted that with pentax, better high iso/af/build are a given with every new camera... although faster af really is coming through new lenses, not new cameras.

now everyone chant "three new cameras, three new cameras, three new cameras" while taking a picture in the mirror, and wait for the ricoh genie to appear. also, ricoh should make a medium format printer like the canon pro-100 so all of my ink purchases don't go towards arming the canon army (or whatever).
Well, we've got a defector from Canon joining the forum, Gahspidy writes:

"Hello All,

Iíve been shooting with Canon SLRís for 15 years and when it came time that I felt I needed to upgrade from my 5d mkll I decided it was time to switch systems since Canons sensors havenít been able to keep up with Sonyís. I had considered the D850, but when I searched into it a little more and came across the K1 score in DxO labs I gave it some serious consideration.
Comparing it against the D850 and the 810 I felt the K1 just offered something really unique and it was obvious it was the best bang for the buck as well.

I went all in and ordered the Silver Edition with three lenses which should be arriving this afternoon. Really looking forward to it. A solidly built and sealed body, WiFi, built in gps, 300,000 cycle shutter, loads of tricks off that shifting sensor and IQ on par with the 810 and close to the 850. Oh, and a grand less than the 810.
I couldnít resist, seems to me like the best value in FF DSLRís out there.

Just discovered this forum while browsing for more info on the K1. Looks like a great bunch of people here.

Hello from New York."

We've even got him fooled that we're a 'great bunch of people'!
01-28-2018, 06:06 PM - 2 Likes   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
We've even got him fooled that we're a 'great bunch of people'!
Overall, this place is full of "Great people." Just takes a little while with the close up lens to see the warts on our personalities!
01-28-2018, 06:16 PM - 1 Like   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
We've even got him fooled that we're a 'great bunch of people'!
He musn't have read enough so far
This said, there's a brunch of great posters here.
01-28-2018, 11:29 PM - 1 Like   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The 42 megapixel sensor allows for 10 frames per second versus, what, 4.5 with the 36 megapixel sensor?
That's only since the event of the D850 or A7III. Before that event, you wouldn't need 10 FPS @ 42Mp; you'd use crop for that, of get a 20Mp camera :-)

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't need more than 36 megapixels, but having better frame rates and (in particular) buffer size would be awfully nice.
You 10 FPS for landscapes?

---------- Post added 29-01-18 at 07:31 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I went all in and ordered the Silver Edition with three lenses which should be arriving this afternoon. Really looking forward to it.
Did he return the system after trying AF tracking? :-) :-) :-)
01-28-2018, 11:34 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's only since the event of the D850 or A7III
Biz, somehow your wires got crossed...D850 only does 7fps and has 45megapixels...it can do 9fps if you attach a grip with 2nd battery.

The A7lll doesnt even exist!
01-28-2018, 11:45 PM   #285
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I don't see how high FPS is important for an already very good all-around camera. It's applications are extremely niche to the vast majority of buyers.
I have yet to see proof of it being more often or even just similarly relevant than pixelshift on a statistical basis.
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