Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-02-2018, 04:16 PM - 5 Likes   #436
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 13,166
What's worse, the dongle won't fit:


02-02-2018, 05:20 PM   #437
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Larrymc's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mississippi, USA
Posts: 3,822
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Perfect!!!!!!
02-02-2018, 05:35 PM   #438
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
c.a.m's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,565
That's it! A K-1 II-DD, for Digital Dongle. One can imagine all sorts of potential new features in a dongle-ized system.
02-02-2018, 06:52 PM - 9 Likes   #439
Pentaxian
rangercarp's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 417
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My sonís 7D is faster, has a deeper buffer, does better video and I think it is touch-screen. Pentax better get with the program on K-1 Super. And the new APSc flagship better be a complete new design (ending the K-7 platform) or Iím jumping ship.
Earlier this week Wheatfield was posting positive things about Pentax, and now Monochrome is thinking about jumping ship. This appears to be one more indicator that the Earth's magnetic poles are about to flip.

02-03-2018, 01:41 AM - 3 Likes   #440
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,910
I recently bought a second K-1.... as I realised I don't need anything more.... and it will always be better then me..... and I'm not saving the world with my photos anyhow..... and I'm sick of them moving buttons around.
02-03-2018, 03:59 AM - 1 Like   #441
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 22,569
QuoteOriginally posted by serothis Quote
This is a very broad generalization. I do landscape photography. Megapixels means much more to me than AF or burst rate. Other things I considered were features like pixelshift and price. If it were a 24MP camera, it would have been a much harder sell.

Now, obviously, different styles of photography will have different technological priorities, but to claim that everyone who bought the K-1 would have bought one anyway at 24MP is NOT accurate. Or that high MP is a "craze" is extremely narrow minded.



An amusing but a very narrow minded article. "Digital zoom" is not a thing but cropping is. And if the author doesn't comprehend the prospective difference between physically getting closer, and staying further back then cropping, He needs to go back to the fundamentals of photography. And some times you don't have the luxury of moving closer.

Ironically the author complains about "low quality" when you crop. A higher MP sensor allows you to do cropping without losing detail when you enlarge it.

So yes, megapixels do matter.

EDIT:

On topic, I don't think there will be K-1 Mk2. from a product line up stand point it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. The K-3III, GR III, 645Z successor are all much more dire need than a refresh/successor to the K-1. One of the big complaints about the K-1 are the lack of modern FF lenses.

Ricoh/Pentax have a laundry list of things they need to push out that are more important than a K-1 II.
The basic question (I guess) is which is more important frame rate or megapixels. The answer of course is neither. And both. But these days, the A7r III is doing 42 megapixels at 10 frames per second. Sure, the A9 can go to 20 fps at 24 megapixels, but you have to ask the question "Who needs 20 frames per second frame rate?" It is good a question as the similarly silly question "Who really needs 42 megapixels anyway?"

Other than hard drive space and slower (but still decent) frame rates, there is no particular negative to having higher megapixels and it sure does seem as though it is a feature that the average consumer does understand.
02-03-2018, 07:31 AM   #442
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,914
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The basic question (I guess) is which is more important frame rate or megapixels. The answer of course is neither.
Agreed. When viewing an entire image within the angle of view of human eyes (as opposed to pixel peeping) enlargement doesn't matter anymore, the eye can perceive the extra resolution. The perceived quality of the displayed photograph depends on the quality of the display media (print or screen). But when AF is missed, it is visible on a 1Mpixels image. Autofocus is more important than resolution or frame rate.
02-03-2018, 08:34 AM   #443
Pentaxian
Ontarian50's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 516
QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I recently bought a second K-1.... as I realised I don't need anything more.... and it will always be better then me..... and I'm not saving the world with my photos anyhow..... and I'm sick of them moving buttons around.

I completely understand and sympathize. But that's also a big reason why the camera industry is in the doldrums, and everyone's predicting doom and gloom. After a decade of rapid upgrades, and trade-ins to chase more megapixels and other features, we photographers are starting to wonder if we will live up to the potential of our 5 year old camera bodies, and anything newer is a waste of cash.

If every K-1 owner decides they have reached their limit, and every Nikon D-800 owner does the same, and every Canon 5Diii also ... well, it's not hard to see how the predicted 2018 unit sales don't look so good.

Especially when the phone makers have something shiny and new to show off every few days.

02-03-2018, 08:59 AM   #444
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,209
Rest aussred, some guys like I still did not upgrade from old K-5 (not II).
I will at a time and will be for full frame. It may, however be my final upgrade for a loooong time.
Not enough photography to justify constant upgrades. But a K mount full frame of some sort will end on my shelf whatever its name.

Second hand K-1 might be exactly what I need. Waiting for new K-1 to fall as much as possible to get better 2nd hand price
02-03-2018, 09:04 AM   #445
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Working From Home
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,237
I suspect the camera industry will look a lot like 1989 - 1999, minus the compact AF film cameras (which were replaced by compact digital - which were replaced by phones). Problem is the cash flow com compacts is gone forever to Apple and Samsung.
02-03-2018, 09:41 AM - 5 Likes   #446
Pentaxian
photoptimist's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,452
The ongoing quest for more resolution reflects both the underlying architecture of human vision and changes in how images are viewed.

First, a key aspect of the human visual system is that it is a foveal visual system. Instead of the human retina having a uniform resolution (like a piece of film or digital sensor), the center has extremely high resolution and the periphery has very low resolution. Our brains build up an incredibly detailed view of the world by panning the high resolution fovea all over the scene. At some level, the total resolution of the mind's eye is unbounded. Even in an incredibly detailed cityscape, the mind can see or imagine every license plate, every red blouse hanging from a 20th-story window, every cigarette butt in the gutter, the menus on the street food carts, and every white dog hair on the black fleece jacket of the man who just walked by. We see and seek detail.

Second, image viewing has changed. We used to print images which is a fixed resolution output medium. And if prints were still the only output medium, then there would be no point in higher resolution than having say 100-300 ppi on some typical print size. Probably 24 MPix would be way more than enough and most prints would be fine with 10 MPix. But now most images are viewed digitally and everyone is used to zooming and panning. And that zooming and panning is perfectly natural because that's exactly what the human eye was design to do.

Humans are biologically designed to be pixel peepers and now we have the technology to satisfy that biological urge. There's no end to the resolution that we might want!
02-03-2018, 10:59 AM - 1 Like   #447
Pentaxian
LeeRunge's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Alabama
Posts: 520
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The basic question (I guess) is which is more important frame rate or megapixels. The answer of course is neither. And both. But these days, the A7r III is doing 42 megapixels at 10 frames per second. Sure, the A9 can go to 20 fps at 24 megapixels, but you have to ask the question "Who needs 20 frames per second frame rate?" It is good a question as the similarly silly question "Who really needs 42 megapixels anyway?"

Other than hard drive space and slower (but still decent) frame rates, there is no particular negative to having higher megapixels and it sure does seem as though it is a feature that the average consumer does understand.
High megapixels are great for cropping potential. High FPS might snag *just* the right action moment as well. They both come with costs though. High MP means way more storage needed (RAW 100mb files) and less card space, less buffer for shots etc. It also isn't ideal if you edit and post on the fly with an Ipad. These days I do almost all my editing in Lightroom mobile on an Ipad transfering RAW through wireless. I specifically went after 24mb FF just to keep that process flowing at a reasonable rate. I don't print past 16x20 so the extra cropping would be nice but mostly wasted while actually hurting performance that I use every day. High frame rate means sifting through zillions of photos which is a time killer and wears out shutters much faster.

If transfer speeds didn't mean anything and storage, by all means why not keep adding resolution so long as the lenses can keep up.

---------- Post added 02-03-2018 at 11:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Ontarian50 Quote
I completely understand and sympathize. But that's also a big reason why the camera industry is in the doldrums, and everyone's predicting doom and gloom. After a decade of rapid upgrades, and trade-ins to chase more megapixels and other features, we photographers are starting to wonder if we will live up to the potential of our 5 year old camera bodies, and anything newer is a waste of cash.

If every K-1 owner decides they have reached their limit, and every Nikon D-800 owner does the same, and every Canon 5Diii also ... well, it's not hard to see how the predicted 2018 unit sales don't look so good.

Especially when the phone makers have something shiny and new to show off every few days.
I think we'll see a big slow down. I've upgraded body's a bunch of times in the last ten years. K7 to K5, huge jump in ISO and DR. K5 to K3, big jump in resolution (not really needed though) and AF got much better in low light, camera was also faster to operate. I skipped K-1 as I don't want larger files for my editing process and wanted a longer reach than 450mm. Went D750 to get the AF and lens I want. Where I'm at now I've got great AF, great DR, great ISO, enough resolution to print any size I'd want. I think many people are in that same happy place with the newer body's just not showing a big leap in performance like they used too. Like the D850 for me, no need to upgrade as the cheaper D750 fills all my needs.

It's sort of the same scenario gaming computers had in the past. You would upgrade every year because performance was increasing so fast. Now a PC will last 5 years and everything runs great on it. I see the same time gap happening with Camera bodys unless they introduce features that are very attractive to lure us into another body.

Sensors are all getting to the point now where they do well up to ISO 6400 (even M43) and all of them get good results. I've got prints around the house from multiple systems and nobody but me knows what came from which.
02-03-2018, 11:39 AM   #448
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 22,569
QuoteOriginally posted by LeeRunge Quote
High megapixels are great for cropping potential. High FPS might snag *just* the right action moment as well. They both come with costs though. High MP means way more storage needed (RAW 100mb files) and less card space, less buffer for shots etc. It also isn't ideal if you edit and post on the fly with an Ipad. These days I do almost all my editing in Lightroom mobile on an Ipad transfering RAW through wireless. I specifically went after 24mb FF just to keep that process flowing at a reasonable rate. I don't print past 16x20 so the extra cropping would be nice but mostly wasted while actually hurting performance that I use every day. High frame rate means sifting through zillions of photos which is a time killer and wears out shutters much faster.

If transfer speeds didn't mean anything and storage, by all means why not keep adding resolution so long as the lenses can keep up.

---------- Post added 02-03-2018 at 11:08 AM ----------



I think we'll see a big slow down. I've upgraded body's a bunch of times in the last ten years. K7 to K5, huge jump in ISO and DR. K5 to K3, big jump in resolution (not really needed though) and AF got much better in low light, camera was also faster to operate. I skipped K-1 as I don't want larger files for my editing process and wanted a longer reach than 450mm. Went D750 to get the AF and lens I want. Where I'm at now I've got great AF, great DR, great ISO, enough resolution to print any size I'd want. I think many people are in that same happy place with the newer body's just not showing a big leap in performance like they used too. Like the D850 for me, no need to upgrade as the cheaper D750 fills all my needs.

It's sort of the same scenario gaming computers had in the past. You would upgrade every year because performance was increasing so fast. Now a PC will last 5 years and everything runs great on it. I see the same time gap happening with Camera bodys unless they introduce features that are very attractive to lure us into another body.

Sensors are all getting to the point now where they do well up to ISO 6400 (even M43) and all of them get good results. I've got prints around the house from multiple systems and nobody but me knows what came from which.
You would have to more than double resolution to see 100 megabyte files. Currently, typical raw DNG files from the K-1 are about 40 megabytes and jpegs are 15 or 16 megabytes. At a certain point there is probably little benefit, but here, we aren't talking about huge increases by going, say, from 36 to 42 megapixels with an actual boost in frame rates if it is desired.

As biz-engineer says, the biggest question is really not one of resolution or frame rates but of auto focus speed and whether or not the camera and lens can keep up with the frame rates. Currently, Pentax can't -- at least not with tracking auto focus -- but I expect they are working to improve that and it should be possible with newest DC lenses.
02-03-2018, 11:56 AM   #449
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 13,166
The thing is, resolution and auto focus speed are kinda orthogonal, in other words having one doesn't preclude the other. The "I'd have X rather than Y" doesn't work. The real problem with the AF speed is, well, the AF speed/AF system - not the sensor resolution; and you can't solve a problem by working on another.
How about the buffer? Going for the 24MP sensor would not be a solution either: while the file sizes would decrease somewhat, the faster burst speed would mean there's more data to take care of. Unless the real problem is being solved (card write speeds), the camera would still be unbalanced in this regard.
02-03-2018, 03:28 PM - 1 Like   #450
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Working From Home
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,237
I suspect for quite some time the ILC segment of the camera industry will resemble the end of the AE manual film camera era, when advancements were incremental and bodies lasted years (decades, actually). There just wasn’t much reason to upgrade, so prices and margins rose. Camera companies had a lot of cash flow from automatic fixed lens cameras (and then compact digital cameras) but since June, 2007 the iPhone and its brethren have completely replaced compact digital and captured that cash flow.

The MILC evolution is really equivalent to the AF evolution of film cameras. It’s just advancement, not replacement - it doesn’t expand the market and it doesn’t replace an entire segment. Phone cameras do both.

ILC maker’s will learn to survive on lower unit volume and higher margins. Or they won’t.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
announced, apsc, body, camera, cant, ff, glass, ii, information, k-1, k-1 mark, k-3, k1, k3, kp, line, mark, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, pentax to sony, people, photography, photos, resolution, rumor, sensor, stage, version
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax K3 ii vs Canon 5D mark ii mogge Welcomes and Introductions 49 03-27-2016 02:39 AM
两部K-r,月内新机,全部出现反光板乱跳问题! anna Pentax DSLR Discussion 3 09-27-2011 11:35 AM
My God! 'Independent Lens'-- Mark Hogencamp Ira Photographic Technique 27 05-06-2011 08:32 AM
a discussion on god... god i was bored.. Gooshin General Talk 9 02-11-2010 01:01 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:09 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top