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01-26-2018, 12:58 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by Google Translate:
You will be worried about the following news.


01-26-2018, 01:03 PM - 2 Likes   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Do you seriously think a K-1 needs to be priced that low to be attractive??
Yes, as it will not happen today but in 6 months yes. And $1500 is only $300 bellow introduction price for something like 2 year later. What the problem ? This may be more substainable than make a low spec 24MP FF that may cost more to manufacture due to low volume. K1 is already available.

The K1 isn't really highend on some aspects, it is hard to justify the $2000+ segment but on the opposite, Pentax can't make much money from buyers with lot of money if they don't price it high.

With K1 + K1-II, market segmentation is possible. Because honestly this is that. The additional batch of K1 is maybe costly $300 to Ricoh per unit. Maybe less, maybe more, but this is a low price. Maybe K1-II will cost $200 more for the BSI sensor or something if they take it. They'll price it $1000 more so no issue. Most of the cost is R&D and also the bodies taking dust at shops or warehouses now that the early adopter all got their own. The cost isn't really manufacturing. The problem then is getting enough money to cover the cost and to make a benefit.

Bellow $1500, even better maybe $1200-$1300, you get many people that want to get they toes wet on FF but don't want to spend $2000-3000 on it. And at that price, maybe having pixel shift or 36MP or better high iso while the other FF in the price range are typically 24MP would give a differentiation, would give sales. The AF of Pentax K1 is soso, but the AF of theses FF bodies in the $1000-1500 isn't better while the FF in the $2000+ range kill the K1 for AF performance. If they could pay $3000+ they would already think of A7RIII, D850 or Canon 5D IV. Not a K1, and honestly likely not a K1-II except if it really have something outstanding, unique and well marketed that the other don't have.

Pentax has almost no market share and is behind technology wise. The echosystem is not as good as the competition. Many say go highend, but there still isn't a justification for anybody to get a Pentax vs something else if he isn't invested in Pentax and Pentax users are not expecting Leica out of Pentax. Otherwise they would have a Leica already.

By making things attractive, with price and packed with features, then you get people on board, and theses people will actually spend more over the years. If they brought a Canikon or Sony like 99% of them because pentax has nothing outstanding in the segment, they never switch later on. It is just not substainable for them to buy a 6D or D610, a lens or 2 and in two year upgrade to K1-III instead of a D810 or 5D mark IV. Why would they take the Pentax while they have Canon, Nikon or Sony lenses ? No way.

if Pentax doesn't provide more for the price as they are the underdog and have obvious shortcomings that detractors will not hesitate to mention, there no way they are going to make money. They'll never get enough volume to fund R&D for high end.
01-26-2018, 01:11 PM - 2 Likes   #108
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But $1000 - the lower limit you mentioned - is almost half the introduction price. If that's how little you want to pay for a FF camera, no offense but get a Sony A7. An inferior camera from every point of view.
At the current price, especially at the current U.S. price, the K-1 is tremendous value for money. And no, I don't think it's a good idea to go into a price war with the aforementioned Sony A7.

Pentax tried once to play the "cheap" game, its effects can be seen even today.
01-26-2018, 01:13 PM - 1 Like   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by xandos Quote
I'm still debating about that (still using a K-5). I'd quite like to try astrotracer and pixelshift, as I think they are super cool. But what I really want from a camera is good noise performance in low light and long exposure times. According to this, the K-5 is quite a lot better than the K-3 in that respect. In fact, if that website is to be believed, the K-5 handles itself extremely well at 300s, even compared to much more expensive new cameras.
lDPReview's Studio Shot Comparison Too is an excellent way to see the difference in file quality between cameras. The K-5 isn't on the list but the K-50 has the 16mp APS-C to compare against the K-3II, KP etc. The problem for K-5 owners to move to KP is incompatible batteries.

The currency and coins in the lower left section is a good spot in the scene to see what a difference Pixel Shift adds to the three dimensional quality of objects. Just to the right the colored circle swirls really shows how Pixel Shift helps eliminate moire.

01-26-2018, 01:14 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Yes because it consists of one camera. The K-1
And for all future cameras
01-26-2018, 01:23 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
no offense but get a Sony A7. An inferior camera from every point of view.
He already has one!
01-26-2018, 01:39 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But $1000 - the lower limit you mentioned - is almost half the introduction price. If that's how little you want to pay for a FF camera, no offense but get a Sony A7. An inferior camera from every point of view.
At the current price, especially at the current U.S. price, the K-1 is tremendous value for money. And no, I don't think it's a good idea to go into a price war with the aforementioned Sony A7.

Pentax tried once to play the "cheap" game, its effects can be seen even today.
You can even buy an a7II for less than 1000... that's the camera I'd be looking at if something definitive happened to the Pentax line of products.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
*snip*

The problem for K-5 owners to move to KP is incompatible batteries.
No, the problem is not incompatible batteries, it's ludicrous batteries.
I have them on the K-30, and compared to the D-LI90 in the lowly K-01 they are a joke.
01-26-2018, 01:48 PM   #113
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I could, but why would I do that?

L.E. And... less than 1000€, that must be used. The thought that a K-1 is not worth more than an used A7 II is absurd.
Pentax needs customers willing to pay for their products, not people looking for the cheapest Sony they can find.


Last edited by Kunzite; 01-26-2018 at 01:53 PM.
01-26-2018, 01:50 PM - 2 Likes   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by LensBeginner Quote
You can even buy an a7II for less than 1000... that's the camera I'd be looking at if something definitive happened to the Pentax line of products.



No, the problem is not incompatible batteries, it's ludicrous batteries.
I have them on the K-30, and compared to the D-LI90 in the lowly K-01 they are a joke.
You'd be shocked by the Sony batteries, LB.
01-26-2018, 01:52 PM - 1 Like   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
You'd be shocked by the Sony batteries, LB.
Yeah, I heard that story... holding on to my K-01 as long as I can
01-26-2018, 02:06 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Silver model is out, so a K1ii is on the horizon.
K-3II silver edition was released in 2016 so that blows that theory out of the water.
01-26-2018, 02:14 PM - 1 Like   #117
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The final release date of the K1 was much later than Ricoh initially intended. A lot of that had to do with the major earthquake in Japan and damage to the factory that made the sensors. So while the K1 has been on the market for two years, it is a loooooooooong two years. By the time it finally did reach retailers it was already a bit behind the curve.

I do credit Ricoh with bringing out one heck of camera. Especially for the price. The K1 was a game winning goal right out of the gate. I own a K5, K5-IIS, K3 and a K1. Of them all. the K1 is the first camera that finally made me forget about film.
01-26-2018, 02:19 PM   #118
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The 645z was moved up a year because a new sensor became available. Presumably that could happen to any model at any time.
01-26-2018, 02:26 PM - 1 Like   #119
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The batteries and the lack of an LCD on the top plate are probably the biggest reasons I'm not very interested in the KP. I'm sure that some would regard this as silly but there it is.
01-26-2018, 02:30 PM   #120
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Hm.. I hope it can offer at least all the top specs,
the A99 Mark II offers.
That would come down to
42MP
12pics per second burst rate , buffer for 50-60pix
4K Video,
maybe even 120fps FullHD video...
amazing PENTAX-calibrated sensor performance/ IQ,
18MP crop images...
In combination with the upcoming DFA lenses, such a PENTAX could easily compete against a D850...
And I would love to buy it.
If it's weaker than a99II, I will have to wait for the third FF.


I don't care about all the "I would rather prefer"-lord-byron-talk. - I like the idea of such a camera. And I am sure there will also be a new APS-C flagship also.

So if that rumour is true, I give it all thumbs up!
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