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02-09-2018, 06:53 PM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
+1.
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Scandalous.
+2...................................

02-09-2018, 07:20 PM - 19 Likes   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Oh come on, like the last year has been anything other than lament over endlessly delayed primes, Pentax standing still, releasing nothing other than the KP, which went by almost unnoticed.
I know: now that CP+ is near, everyone expects great things, naturally. But after, it will be business as usual, or worse, when all the expectations have not been met. I am recalibrating my notion of what Pentax has become under Ricoh over the past years. Sorry if this raises offense with anyone.

Chris
Chris Mac - I’ve seen a number of your posts on this forum of the other in the last week or so. Your complaints about Ricoh/Pentax seem to boil down to the following.

You think the KP is intended as a top-of-the-line APS-C and it is not an acceptable successor to the K-3 ii
- The press release for the KP said in the very title that it was a “mid-class” camera. You can see it here: PENTAX KP A mid-class digital SLR camera, featuring a new APS-C-sized image sensor and super-high-sensitivity night-scene snapshot photography at ISO 819200 in a newly designed, compact body?RICOH IMAGING
- The K-3 ii has coexisted with the KP for a whole year year. It has only just been discontinued, but remains available.
- I think it’s obvious from the marketing pages and video that the KP is targeting a different kind of photographer, and designed to be used with the smaller lenses, which are a long-standing Pentax selling point.
- The KP’s price peers are the Nikon D7500 and the Canon 80D. Comparison of those cameras shows the classic differences in build and capabilities between the brands, but I think on balance the KP is entirely competitive with them.

You think Ricoh is backing away from APS-C and focusing on full frame too much
- The last three products Ricoh released are APS-C products (K-70, 55-300PLM, KP), and of the two future lenses shown, one of them is a high-end APS-C lens.
- Pentax and the few people who seem to have some inside knowledge have stated that they will not reduce their commitment to APS-C.
- There are not many lenses on the APS-C roadmap. However, when APS-C lenses do come, they usually come without pre-announcement, because they are replacing an existing model.
- In comparison, Nikon has a very mixed history with DX format. It has formed a large part of their sales for 15 years, but they have bee pretty negligent in building a lens line-up for it. I just checked what they have and was shocked to see almost nothing but variable aperture zooms. Nikon’s line-up is notorious for frustrating APS-C users with crippled features and missing lenses to twist their arms into a full frame upgrade.
- On top of that, consider what would happen to Nikon F-mount APS-C development if a mirrorless system is announced at CP+ this year. My guess is new DX lenses development would practically dry up.

You want more communication from Ricoh about their future plans
- At least Ricoh has some kind of roadmap. You don’t see any more transparency from Canon or Nikon. They offer no indication of their future products. You only get that kind of transparency from companies when they are in a “system building” phase.
- Pentax APS-C is effectively a full system. Almost any future product that they let on to would have the potential to undermine the sales of a current one. So it doesn’t make sense to tease and leak information about new products. Full frame is a bit different, because there are some significant gaps that could deter system adoption without an indication that they will be filled in future. This is why you see more on the full frame roadmap.
- I think the issue is that the internet is just full of people who amuse themselves by trying to upset others with negative rumors. It’s not so much that Ricoh are bad at communication, as it is that the trolls are such prolific communicators - probably because they have nothing better to do than communicate. Ricoh can’t get into the business of responding to every negative supposition on the internet, because it would make the seem defensive and just fuel the discussion.

Ultimately, you seem to be building a case for yourself to switch to Nikon. It might be the best idea for you, especially if you find Sigma’s lens offerings attractive. You're unlikely to get them in K-mount. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise, but your commentaries on Ricoh are not really backed up by my observations.

Last edited by JPT; 02-09-2018 at 08:16 PM.
02-09-2018, 08:58 PM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Chris Mac - I’ve seen a number of your posts on this forum of the other in the last week or so. Your complaints about Ricoh/Pentax seem to boil down to the following.

You think the KP is intended as a top-of-the-line APS-C and it is not an acceptable successor to the K-3 ii
- The press release for the KP said in the very title that it was a “mid-class” camera. You can see it here: PENTAX KP A mid-class digital SLR camera, featuring a new APS-C-sized image sensor and super-high-sensitivity night-scene snapshot photography at ISO 819200 in a newly designed, compact body?RICOH IMAGING
- The K-3 ii has coexisted with the KP for a whole year year. It has only just been discontinued, but remains available.
- I think it’s obvious from the marketing pages and video that the KP is targeting a different kind of photographer, and designed to be used with the smaller lenses, which are a long-standing Pentax selling point.
- The KP’s price peers are the Nikon D7500 and the Canon 80D. Comparison of those cameras shows the classic differences in build and capabilities between the brands, but I think on balance the KP is entirely competitive with them.

You think Ricoh is backing away from APS-C and focusing on full frame too much
- The last three products Ricoh released are APS-C products (K-70, 55-300PLM, KP), and of the two future lenses shown, one of them is a high-end APS-C lens.
- Pentax and the few people who seem to have some inside knowledge have stated that they will not reduce their commitment to APS-C.
- There are not many lenses on the APS-C roadmap. However, when APS-C lenses do come, they usually come without pre-announcement, because they are replacing an existing model.
- In comparison, Nikon has a very mixed history with DX format. It has formed a large part of their sales for 15 years, but they have bee pretty negligent in building a lens line-up for it. I just checked what they have and was shocked to see almost nothing but variable aperture zooms. Nikon’s line-up is notorious for frustrating APS-C users with crippled features and missing lenses to twist their arms into a full frame upgrade.
- On top of that, consider what would happen to Nikon F-mount APS-C development if a mirrorless system is announced at CP+ this year. My guess is new DX lenses development would practically dry up.

You want more communication from Ricoh about their future plans
- At least Ricoh has some kind of roadmap. You don’t see any more transparency from Canon or Nikon. They offer no indication of their future products. You only get that kind of transparency from companies when they are in a “system building” phase.
- Pentax APS-C is effectively a full system. Almost any future product that they let on to would have the potential to undermine the sales of a current one. So it doesn’t make sense to tease and leak information about new products. Full frame is a bit different, because there are some significant gaps that could deter system adoption without an indication that they will be filled in future. This is why you see more on the full frame roadmap.
- I think the issue is that the internet is just full of people who amuse themselves by trying to upset others with negative rumors. It’s not so much that Ricoh are bad at communication, as it is that the trolls are such prolific communicators - probably because they have nothing better to do than communicate. Ricoh can’t get into the business of responding to every negative supposition on the internet, because it would make the seem defensive and just fuel the discussion.

Ultimately, you seem to be building a case for yourself to switch to Nikon. It might be the best idea for you, especially if you find Sigma’s lens offerings attractive. You're unlikely to get them in K-mount. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise, but your commentaries on Ricoh are not really backed up by my observations.
I fully concur with your assessment!! Very well put!

Larry
02-10-2018, 01:27 AM   #214
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Really people,
You are all making far too much out of this. All I hoped for and expected for this year, was a contemporary APS-C body to put my DA560 on. Well, it is my opinion that it is for sure not coming this year because Pentax has put much/most/possibly nearly all of its higher end efforts in the K1 successor and matching high end prime lenses, and APS-C is now low on their priority list.
That is my opinion and I reserve the right to believe it without further doubt, based on asahiman's input, but even mote on my own observations off the last years, to which were added recently, solid K1mkII rumors.

So if everyone can live with this, then I would say: case closed.

Chris


Last edited by Chris Mak; 02-10-2018 at 01:33 AM.
02-10-2018, 01:32 AM - 1 Like   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
APS-C is now low on their priority list.
Its not!
02-10-2018, 01:36 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Its not!
Ok then, my last rephrase: it has been low on their priority list in recent years, whereas FF has been high on their priority list, leading to a most likely K1mkII announcement this month.
02-10-2018, 01:50 AM   #217
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If you think about the small production line they have, so yes
02-10-2018, 03:55 AM - 1 Like   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Ok then, my last rephrase: it has been low on their priority list in recent years, whereas FF has been high on their priority list, leading to a most likely K1mkII announcement this month.
It is funny that you think that they have been focusing on full frame, because people who shoot full frame have been complaining about the slow release of lenses for the K-1 and most definitely have not been asking for a new camera. I think Pentax has a pretty slow pace of movement. The K-1's release was put off for quite awhile, mostly because the release of the 645z took most of their resources.

I would say that your impression of Nikon's support of APS-C is different from Nikonians. Yes, they have a D500 now, but the D300 was released in August of 2007 and the D500 was released in January of 2016 -- almost 10 years between "flagship" models. Thom Hogan and others were clamoring for a D400 in between times, but Nikon was apparently afraid it would steal full frame sales and so hesitated to release such a camera. It isn't to say that Nikon doesn't have nice lenses and cameras, just that they have their own priorities and at least traditionally, their company has been focused on getting every photographer into full frame cameras that they can and they have done that by limiting APS-C only lenses and limiting the performance of APS-C camera bodies in comparison to full frame options.

02-10-2018, 04:34 AM   #219
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Yes, and when the K-3 was released the Nikon users claimed that it was what the D400 should be like....
02-10-2018, 06:30 AM   #220
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We'll just don't whine if Nikon takes another 10 years to replace D500...
02-10-2018, 06:37 AM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Ok then, my last rephrase: it has been low on their priority list in recent years, whereas FF has been high on their priority list, leading to a most likely K1mkII announcement this month.
Not to get your hopes up - well, actually - but see the viral image from asahiman discussion HERE.
02-10-2018, 09:34 AM   #222
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I want to go a different direction instead of us arguing about whether they're introducing a replacement to the K-3ii next month. If they do, here is what I'm hoping for. First & foremost, improved auto-focus. I do mostly nature photography, but even with that there are times when moving animals stretch the current auto-focus system. I often take pictures for an elementary school & there moving children are frequently too much for the auto-focus. Second, since it has been 4.5 years since the K-3ii was introduced, I expect an improvement in ISO performance. Third, & of course this is a preference item, I hope they bring back the pop up flash. I like the convenience of having it available when I want to add a little fill light. Fourth, although I'm generally satisfied with image quality, I expect after nearly 5 years image quality will improve at least slightly. Finally, I expect the smooth refined user experience Pentax engineers into their flagship APS-C sensor cameras to continue. Please don't attack me if my preferences are different than yours, just share what you hope for IF AND WHEN the K-3ii is replaced. I look forward to reading other users wish list.

Last edited by PentaxRev; 02-10-2018 at 09:42 AM.
02-10-2018, 10:09 AM   #223
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The improvement in ISO performance is a given, since they already have that on the market.
I hope they're really working on performance. That's what would make me spend more money on cameras... otherwise, the K-1 is fantastic!
02-10-2018, 10:37 AM - 1 Like   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The improvement in ISO performance is a given, since they already have that on the market.
I hope they're really working on performance. That's what would make me spend more money on cameras... otherwise, the K-1 is fantastic!
Exactly, my K-3 is in it's 5th year. My question to Pentax is, will there be a model I'm interested n buying? My K-3 is rated 200,000 shutter actuations. Since adding the K-1 for landscape my usage is cut in half, and it may take me 10 years to use half that. The simple fact is, I'm happy with my set up and the only thing that can sell me a new is 10 fps, a 100+ shot buffer, and a much improved AF system for wildlife and sports in the APS_c flagship.

Unfortunately the K-70 and K-P have none of those things. I feel like I did when complaining about the lack of ƒ4 and variable aperture lenses for the K-1. I'm thinking one way, Pentax is thinking something else.

But, I have at least 5 years for them to come to their senses before my K-3 gives out.

But, I'm also pretty sure, Pentax doesn't think much about shooters like me when they design their cameras. As a company they seem to go after a specific niche, and the low hanging fruit within that niche.

Last edited by normhead; 02-10-2018 at 11:38 AM.
02-10-2018, 10:48 AM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Pentax needs to fill obvious holes in the FF line-up and the 645 system. It may well be that APS will have to wait awhile. They may think that the APS line is reasonably served by the KP in the mean time. This doesn't mean that there won't be true K3 replacement, just reflecting priorities.
Agreed. If the 645z is to be a complete system, then an ultra-wide zoom or primes are needed, like with Fuji and Hasselblad! Fortunately for K1 shooters, the Swiss company called Irix makes two great 15mm a 11mm lenses. I have the 11mm and have seen even better reviews of the 15mm. New super telephotos, however, are still a problem...
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