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02-11-2018, 02:54 PM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
I would be surprised to see a 400f/5.6, 500f/5.6 and 600f/5.6. By the looks of the patents for the 600f/5.6 the total length is going to be 330mm long and if the old version of the 600f/5.6 gives us a idea on weight it should be around 2800g
If Canon can build a 400 F4 for $6800 it should not be to hard for Nikon to produce a 600 for around the same price.

The 500mm could be for around 4500 to 5000
Interesting math. Canon can build a 400mm f4 for 6800 dollars (which by my poor calculations is more than 6000 dollars, not less) and so Nikon can build a 600mm f4 for under 6000 dollars?

I'm sorry, but these lenses are expensive because of a number of factors, one of which is that even for Canon and Nikon, there aren't a bunch of sales of them. And over time, most lens prices go up and not down. I don't really care -- I don't shoot super telephoto lenses and I don't shoot Nikon, but I just don't know that the prices on these lenses are going to go down that much without cutting corners a fair amount.

02-11-2018, 03:06 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yes. Stop spreading FUD. They’ll be Pentax patents, just like the patents on the other * lenses linked in reply to your intentionally disruptive posts on DPR.

another one for the boriscleto list, I guess. Shame really. We already have that place. Why here too?
I think its pretty funny how excited people get on this forum. its not about spreading FUD but stating a possibility. Tokina still sells lenses that are Pentax/Tokina designs i don't really care who designed them as long as they are good. No one really knows what we are getting until it is released. I do think its asking for rumors releasing tease images and announcing lenses without optical formulas. At this point are they still working on optical design for the announced lenses if so will they be ready in spring?
02-11-2018, 03:08 PM   #258
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Fresnel optics

The patents are for fresnel lenses. Nikon has a 300 version. I look forward to their availability.
02-11-2018, 03:14 PM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
nteresting math. Canon can build a 400mm f4 for 6800 dollars (which by my poor calculations is more than 6000 dollars, not less) and so Nikon can build a 600mm f4 for under 6000 dollars?
Never said that Nikon can build a 600 F4 for 6000 I said they can build a 600/f5.6 for the price of the 400f4 around $6000

02-11-2018, 03:18 PM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ascencio Quote
I think its pretty funny how excited people get on this forum. its not about spreading FUD but stating a possibility. Tokina still sells lenses that are Pentax/Tokina designs i don't really care who designed them as long as they are good. No one really knows what we are getting until it is released. I do think its asking for rumors releasing tease images and announcing lenses without optical formulas. At this point are they still working on optical design for the announced lenses if so will they be ready in spring?
That's how FUD works - by stating "possibilities".
Let's get real: Tokina, AFAIK, gave one optical design to Pentax - the 12-24mm f/4. The other lenses subject to their collaboration were Pentax designs (and there are patent numbers to prove it, somewhere on this site). And that one occurrence happened more than a decade ago.
02-11-2018, 03:19 PM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by RockvilleBob Quote
The patents are for fresnel lenses. Nikon has a 300 version. I look forward to their availability.
Even if they didn't build it as a Fresnel lens I would still be happy if it follow the size of their older model
Thanks to ken

02-11-2018, 03:28 PM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
Never said that Nikon can build a 600 F4 for 6000 I said they can build a 600/f5.6 for the price of the 400f4 around $6000
But the lens being discussed was 600mm f4. It is clear that if you make the aperture smaller or allow for mirror lenses or just don't try for great sharpness till you are stopped down a couple of stops, you can make a cheaper lens. I think that is probably obvious.
02-11-2018, 03:45 PM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But the lens being discussed was 600mm f4
Never said anything about a 600mmf/4 lens the reason why I feel that the Nikon 600mmf/5.6 lens would be priced around the cost of the canon is that they both would have to accommodate the same size of aperture 600mm/5.6=107mm ------400mm/4= 100mm

02-11-2018, 05:00 PM   #264
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Nikon has experience building fresnel lenses, their 300 fresnel lens is terrific
AF-S NIKKOR 300mm f/4E PF ED VR | Interchangeable Lens for Nikon DSLR Cameras
The reviews and owner feedback are very complimentary.
If you need f4 you can buy their f4 600 - if I were a professional photographer the extra stop would be worth the price
An f5.6 high performance fresnel lens would be ideal for my use.
The good news is that if the fresnel 600 is introduced I could pick between two high performance 600 mm lenses.
The lower cost and lower weight with top notch performance would have me get the fresnel version.
I have used the 600 f4 and it is not complimentary to my mobile style, I found a tripod and good gimbal a must.
So I am hoping that by applying for a patent Nikon plans to add 400, 500 and 600 mm to their fresnel line of telephoto lenses.
02-11-2018, 06:36 PM - 2 Likes   #265
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Turning another K-3 thread into a Nikon thread?

Start your own thread in the Nikon part of the forum so folks like me can avoid it. I have absolutely no interest in it and this is the Pentax part of the forum. Don't make me complain to a mod about you guys. But since a few of you have taken the time to do the same to me and had me removed from threads in the "Other camera" section , I won't even blink if there's more promotion of Nikon product. Fair is fair.

This is a Pentax thread. Here, we have every right to complain about folks posting their Nikon wet dreams.
02-11-2018, 06:43 PM - 1 Like   #266
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Do not care about Nikon, I would like information on a possible K3 II successor and not FUD.
02-12-2018, 01:35 AM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by SSGGeezer Quote
Do not care about Nikon, I would like information on a possible K3 II successor and not FUD.
At the risk of being put to the stakes , so do I, but my problem is (don't let it be yours) that Pentax is going for full frame, and envisioned the KP as the new mid-class positioned Dslr under the K1. They withdrew their intentions, sure do not want their reputation hurt. But see the dry "facts" (facts to me), a K1mkII coming, a new MF next according to source "X" (a credible source to me), no rumors of any credible kind on a new APS-C body, and add it all up. (just my opinion of course!!!)

So Nikon is at the moment suddenly very relevant for a few (perhaps just me), users with very specific needs, like me, and the Nikon 600/5.6 freshnel lens patent is very interesting, as a possible DA560 replacement.

Did I oversee any places to add my opinion? Oh, and of course based on unfounded rumors

Of course, only Pentax route open would be using a 42mp FF in crop mode, but a 42mp BSI FF will not be cheap. It should offer compelling IQ though, and could be a very good solution if the AF module were significantly upgraded. It would be cheaper than a system switch to Nikon for me, but I am not that sure the K1mkII will have either the 42mp BSI sensor r a new AF module. It seems the only reliable route left open, I assume investment in FF will continue.

Chris

Last edited by Chris Mak; 02-12-2018 at 02:20 AM.
02-12-2018, 02:39 AM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
At the risk of being put to the stakes , so do I, but my problem is (don't let it be yours) that Pentax is going for full frame, and envisioned the KP as the new mid-class positioned Dslr under the K1. They withdrew their intentions, sure do not want their reputation hurt. But see the dry "facts" (facts to me), a K1mkII coming, a new MF next according to source "X" (a credible source to me), no rumors of any credible kind on a new APS-C body, and add it all up. (just my opinion of course!!!)

So Nikon is at the moment suddenly very relevant for a few (perhaps just me), users with very specific needs, like me, and the Nikon 600/5.6 freshnel lens patent is very interesting, as a possible DA560 replacement.

Did I oversee any places to add my opinion? Oh, and of course based on unfounded rumors

Of course, only Pentax route open would be using a 42mp FF in crop mode, but a 42mp BSI FF will not be cheap. It should offer compelling IQ though, and could be a very good solution if the AF module were significantly upgraded. It would be cheaper than a system switch to Nikon for me, but I am not that sure the K1mkII will have either the 42mp BSI sensor r a new AF module. It seems the only reliable route left open, I assume investment in FF will continue.

Chris
Pentax are in a tricky position. Ricoh will never give them the funds to build a true D500 or X-H1 class of camera. Even if they did, the result would cost around 2K at retail, a lot more than many who want “flagship” would be prepared to pay, in reality. There’s a degree of fantasy football going on here.

Maybe the best chance for Pentax is to take the next generation of sensors and processors, which will be a lot faster and more capable than ones now 3-5 years old, and wrap them in a more K3-like body. They can add as many features as they can afford while keeping the price to a low enough level for the majority of Pentax customers. The result still won’t be D500 but it will be a little closer to it than a KP, especially in terms of ergos and battery.

Bear in mind that APS-C probably isn’t as nearly sexy as it was. Mirrorless cameras are eating their way through what is left of the sector after the declines of recent years. And Pentax have to put their modest funds where they can secure the best return. They are likely correct to think that is FF and other high-value items. APS-C is likely going through an awkward change-over period as mirrorless cameras come to the fore. There will be even more of those in a year’s time. Pentax are right to be a little diffident about pouring money into the sector. The world’s changed.

Last edited by mecrox; 02-12-2018 at 02:46 AM.
02-12-2018, 02:57 AM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Pentax are in a tricky position. Ricoh will never give them the funds to build a true D500 or X-H1 class of camera. Even if they did, the result would cost around 2K at retail, a lot more than many who want “flagship” would be prepared to pay, in reality. There’s a degree of fantasy football going on here.

Maybe the best chance for Pentax is to take the next generation of sensors and processors, which will be a lot faster and more capable than ones now 3-5 years old, and wrap them in a more K3-like body. They can add as many features as they can afford while keeping the price to a low enough level for the majority of Pentax customers. The result still won’t be D500 but it will be a little closer to it than a KP, especially in terms of ergos and battery.

Bear in mind that APS-C probably isn’t as nearly sexy as it was. Mirrorless cameras are eating their way through what is left of the sector after the declines of recent years. And Pentax have to put their modest funds where they can secure the best return. They are likely correct to think that is FF and other high-value items. APS-C is likely going through an awkward change-over period as mirrorless cameras come to the fore. There will be even more of those in a year’s time. Pentax are right to be a little diffident about pouring money into the sector. The world’s changed.
I don't think anyone ever realistically hoped for a D500, I did not at least. I hoped for a further K3 evolution, tackling a few weaknesses in the K3, related to AF, processor power and reliability, high iso performance. It was and is a viable evolution, but Pentax chose the KP route, creating something of an abyss between the Pentax APS-C flagship and the Nikon D500.

No use though lingering in what culd have been, Pentax go the FF route for now, and if at least they up the resolution to 42mp and hopefully even higher in the K1mkIII to offer the crop shooters decent resolution, than sure, it is an option for me. But if they stay at 36mp, than it's a system switch for sure not all too far ahead.
It's still tricky for Pentax to terminate the K3 line....

Chris
02-12-2018, 03:31 AM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
Never said anything about a 600mmf/4 lens the reason why I feel that the Nikon 600mmf/5.6 lens would be priced around the cost of the canon is that they both would have to accommodate the same size of aperture 600mm/5.6=107mm ------400mm/4= 100mm
Norm was the one that mentioned the 600mm f4 with camera combination being roughly 10 grand and I repeated the comment defending. Then everyone comes out of the wood work to say that there are cheaper (and slower) long lenses out there. That's true. Pentax already has a 560mm f5.6 lens for 4000 dollars. I doubt they will work on a 600 f4 though due to cost and poor sales (I don't know how many DA 560s they sell right now, but I wouldn't think it is many).
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