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02-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I understand what you say, but still I assume a K-3 III would be a very attractive camera at that price point if it was a KP in a K-3 shaped alloy body with 2 card slots, top lcd, without any higher FPS.
Low end FF cameras as you mentioned are in many ways crippled, clunky, cheaply built and require expensive glass for the same tele reach, so they are not necessarily at a advantage competing with fully featured APSC models without those manifold weaknesses.

The breadth of user requirements is large. No single aspect drives a majority.
Frame rate in only one of many metrics that people look at. To me, the most important thing is image quality and that is where the KP and even the K70 seem to have it over the K3 II. They really do seem to have significantly better high iso performance and probably better low iso performance as well. It would be nice to see that come to a semi-pro body for Pentax.

But honestly, if it is priced too low, you won't sell KP cameras and if it is priced too high it won't sell because it is too high. I don't know the market well enough to know what range of specs you would need to justify a given price point, but certainly Ricoh has seemed to be pretty intelligent in where they have priced their cameras and if they aren't selling at a given price point, they are pretty quick to drop the price a little to generate sales.

02-13-2018, 09:56 AM   #317
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There are about +-16 more days until CP+.

My guess is that we will probably find out the fate of the K-3II replacement whether it's actually revealed (which I highly doubt) or Ricoh confirms that they have one on the way or they say nothing about it.

In either case, we have until the end of Sunday March 4. That's when the CP+ ends. One of 2 things will happen, those waiting for it will either rejoice or go into panic/confused/angry/jump ship mode. Hahahaha!
02-13-2018, 10:01 AM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
And no countdown on PF!
02-13-2018, 10:09 AM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That's what is so bad about the current situation. The K-P is an excellent camera and has a lot going for it. And it's expensive like a K-3. But it lacks K-3 features I depend on. Did Pentax ditch the requirements that are important to me and just aren't telling me? Who knows?

Is the K-3ii the last Pentax with the performance features I want. Should I snap one up during the closeouts? Or should I just gamble, waiting and hoping Pentax has something better for action than a K-3ii in the pipeline? It's a conundrum.

Compared to even a D7100 for tracking AF, the K-3II just isn't that good. Did Pentax just throw in the towel and abandon the specs needed by action shooters? Or are they readying for big splash.... hardly anyone knows apparently, and those who do aren't talking.

But with the K-3ii out of production, the pressure is on. I'm still amazed they cancelled it without a replacement on the horizon. They clearly don't care a whole lot about this end of the market. My guess is, the K-3ii isn't selling and they stopped the production run before, R&D has had a chance to come up with a replacement. Pentax has said the K-P isn't the K-3ii replacement, and I whole heartedly agree. But Bottom line, K-3ii production is over. The K-P is the current high end APS-c model in production. Pentax is confusing their opinions (ie. the K-P is not a K-3 replacement) with the facts. If my K-3 breaks today, a K-P would be the only relatively recent choice.) The K-P is the current high end APS-c model in production, and no plans for K-3 replacement are announced. So, right now the K-P is the only replacement for those of us with K-3 series cameras. Pentax can claim whatever they want. That doesn't make it true.

At current reading, Pentax has said the K-P isn't the K-3 replacement. But they also haven't said there is going to be a K-3 replacement. The K-3 may be the end of Pentax's attempts to go higher performance. We don't know, and that's disturbing.

Looking at models currently in production, I'd rather have the 8.3 FPS and 23 shot buffer, than the plusses for the K-P. That's pretty sad, when a shooter like me would buy a second (5 year old) K-3 before the most advanced model in current production.
If they don't up their AF game, they may not be able to sell enough to justify a new design. I'm guessing that might require a new processor dedicated to AF - it might also require hiring a software developer away from Nikon.

02-13-2018, 10:14 AM - 1 Like   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
If they don't up their AF game, they may not be able to sell enough to justify a new design. I'm guessing that might require a new processor dedicated to AF - it might also require hiring a software developer away from Nikon.
We don't really know if it's the engineers who can't do it, or if it's cost prohibitive. It could be either. Canon and Nikon have had the bleed down effect of high tech for high end cameras bleeding down into their APS_c systems for years. It's huge advantage. Pentax has no systems for the tech to bleed down from. I'd say look at what Sony has done from scratch, but Pentax isn't Sony. They seem to have a much narrower vision at the moment.
02-13-2018, 10:15 AM   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Squirrel Mafia Quote
There are about +-16 more days until CP+.

My guess is that we will probably find out the fate of the K-3II replacement whether it's actually revealed (which I highly doubt) or Ricoh confirms that they have one on the way or they say nothing about it.

In either case, we have until the end of Sunday March 4. That's when the CP+ ends. One of 2 things will happen, those waiting for it will either rejoice or go into panic/confused/angry/jump ship mode. Hahahaha!
I'm expecting an announcement in the next sixteen days. If there just be a hint, it will be in the next few days after that - during CP+. They may have expected the K-1 to cover all "flagship" needs ...they may hint at that, but I doubt they would actually say it.
02-13-2018, 10:18 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
We don't really know if it's the engineers who can't do it, or if it's cost prohibitive. It could be either. Canon and Nikon have had the bleed down effect of high tech for high end cameras bleeding down into their APS_c systems for years. It's huge advantage. Pentax has no systems for the tech to bleed down from. I'd say look at what Sony has done from scratch, but Pentax isn't Sony. They seem to have a much narrower vision at the moment.
Or, much narrower resources
02-13-2018, 10:22 AM - 1 Like   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Or, much narrower resources
One of the saddest things in recent years was the Pentax talking heads at some show saying the predictive AF system had been improved in a coming upgrade, and when the upgrade was installed, no one could tell the difference between the new and the old. You can also make a case for, they just don't know what they're doing when it comes to AF and tracking.

02-13-2018, 10:22 AM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
We don't really know if it's the engineers who can't do it, or if it's cost prohibitive. It could be either. Canon and Nikon have had the bleed down effect of high tech for high end cameras bleeding down into their APS_c systems for years. It's huge advantage. Pentax has no systems for the tech to bleed down from. I'd say look at what Sony has done from scratch, but Pentax isn't Sony. They seem to have a much narrower vision at the moment.
Looking at the 645Z and K-1, I was thinking they might have decided they're not large enough to compete in the wildlife, events and sports markets. I'm guessing people will be carefully parsing their every word - and they will probably be equally careful in constructing their every word.

Last edited by reh321; 02-13-2018 at 10:52 AM. Reason: added wildlife
02-13-2018, 10:26 AM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Looking at the 645Z and K-1, I was thinking they might have decided they're not large enough to compete in the events and sports markets. I'm guessing people will be carefully parsing their every word - and they will probably be equally careful in constructing their every word.
If you aren't saying things people want to hear, you better say it very carefully.

Try and minimize the disappointment.

Let them down easy.

Really what could they do to follow the K-1, where everyone just leaped for Joy?

Joy was overwhelmed.

She wants to know why y'all did that, she still doesn't understand.
02-13-2018, 10:26 AM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
They seem to have a much narrower vision at the moment.
I believe the "Q" family died because of a lack of vision.

---------- Post added 02-13-18 at 12:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If you aren't saying things people want to hear, you better say it very carefully.

Try and minimize the disappointment.

Let them down easy.
I wonder whether they'll agree to an interview with Adam; if they're trying to hide bad news, skipping interviews like that might be the prudent thing to do.
02-13-2018, 10:45 AM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I believe the "Q" family died because of a lack of vision.

---------- Post added 02-13-18 at 12:32 PM ----------


I wonder whether they'll agree to an interview with Adam; if they're trying to hide bad news, skipping interviews like that might be the prudent thing to do.
I would assume that any bad news they have wouldn't be bad news for what they consider to be their core users. Looking at the last few years since the release of the K-3ii, I doubt they see users who are looking for performance upgrades as their core users. Clearly they are looking for users who are willing to take a small performance hit for better low light IQ. I'm guessing they know which side their bread is buttered on.
02-13-2018, 11:11 AM   #328
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Maybe they'll just drop the KP price to about $800 and come it with the new K3 iii at somewhere near the normal launch price for the flagship crop sensor camera.


QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Frame rate in only one of many metrics that people look at. To me, the most important thing is image quality and that is where the KP and even the K70 seem to have it over the K3 II. They really do seem to have significantly better high iso performance and probably better low iso performance as well. It would be nice to see that come to a semi-pro body for Pentax.

But honestly, if it is priced too low, you won't sell KP cameras and if it is priced too high it won't sell because it is too high. I don't know the market well enough to know what range of specs you would need to justify a given price point, but certainly Ricoh has seemed to be pretty intelligent in where they have priced their cameras and if they aren't selling at a given price point, they are pretty quick to drop the price a little to generate sales.
02-13-2018, 11:26 AM   #329
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?? | RICOH IMAGING
Ricoh has only 5 DSLR in production

645Z
K-1
KP
K-70
K-S2
02-13-2018, 11:29 AM   #330
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GRII, WG-50, WG-40, WG-M2 and Q-S1

Rather narrow range of goods
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