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02-16-2018, 12:08 PM   #451
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
You just need to look at some sample images:
Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review
Clear b&w lines are best.
You only need to use your own eyes and check for which camera you see the most clear line separation the farthest to the left, with as little moire as possible.
The KP looses the least detail with the Fuji XT2 being 90% similar. Very closely the K-3II follows and the Nikon clearly lags behind (same with Canon 80D or Sony 6500).

From what you can get out of Lightroom the KP seems the Queen of APSC noise and detail retention.
Which is why so many of us are annoyed. There hasn't been a fast FPS, large buffer flagship. It pains me that I need the performance from one body, and the IQ from another body, but I can't get both in the same body. To my mind the flagship should have come first. However that being said, Pentax tends to try things out in cheaper bodies before they bring them to the flagship. The first body to introducethe aspherical element to improve tungsten focusing was the K-30. It came to the K-3 long after the K-30 was introduced.

So I don't have my hopes up. I think the K-P system is going to be thoroughly analyzed and studied before an AF system is designed for the K-3 successor.


Last edited by normhead; 02-16-2018 at 05:02 PM.
02-16-2018, 12:50 PM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
However that being said, Pentax tends to try things out in cheaper bodies before bring them to the flagship. The first body to intrudes the aspherical element to improve tungsten focusing was the K-30. It came to the K-3 long after the K-30 was introduced.
I wonder if that is planned or if the new tech just comes out in the next body in the pipeline, regardless of high or low end. I have not really studied this and I'm not arguing with your statement just wondering.
02-16-2018, 02:11 PM   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote



Hitler liked dogs. That is one thing in his favour anyway.
I think he also would read reports - but he also didn't listen to sound advice
02-16-2018, 02:21 PM   #454
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Which is why so many of us are annoyed. There hasn't been a fast FPS, large buffer flagship. It pains me that I need the performance from one body, and the IQ from another body, but I can't get both in the same body. To my mind the flagship should have come first. However that being said, Pentax tends to try things out in cheaper bodies before bring them to the flagship. The first body to intrudes the aspherical element to improve tungsten focusing was the K-30. It came to the K-3 long after the K-30 was introduced.

So I don't have my hopes up. I think the K-P system is going to be thoroughly analyzed and studied before an AF system is designed for the K-3 successor.
A decent AF (just get close to the D7500), KP image quality and 9fps at 1300-1400 with some fast lenses would put a lot of pressure on the D500/7500. Pentax already has a better APS-C lens selection it just needs a few quick focus lenses available. Even better would be the opportunity to add stabilized lenses and use the IBIS and lens combined like Olympus which would give unrivaled stabilization and image quality in APS-C. Throw in EV -4 focus just to show off.

02-16-2018, 02:25 PM   #455
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QuoteOriginally posted by AyeYo Quote
Who's trashing it? In my short time on this forum I've quickly identified two groups of people: 1. Pentax can do no wrong and everything they produce is the best thing ever, 2. The realists.

Being a realist isn't "trashing" the brand. Having an unrealistic view of the brand's capabilities is even less beneficial.
Well folks, it looks like I can retire. The fledglings have left the nest.

---------- Post added 02-16-18 at 03:38 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RockvilleBob Quote
I think he also would read reports - but he also didn't listen to sound advice
Did he use a crayon to sign his name?
02-16-2018, 03:24 PM - 1 Like   #456
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Which is why so many of us are annoyed. There hasn't been a fast FPS, large buffer flagship. It pains me that I need the performance from one body, and the IQ from another body, but I can't get both in the same body. To my mind the flagship should have come first. However that being said, Pentax tends to try things out in cheaper bodies before bring them to the flagship. The first body to intrudes the aspherical element to improve tungsten focusing was the K-30. It came to the K-3 long after the K-30 was introduced.

So I don't have my hopes up. I think the K-P system is going to be thoroughly analyzed and studied before an AF system is designed for the K-3 successor.
Obviously its surprising they have not released a K3 successor as it is their most successful platform. However if you consider the following factors.

The 5 axis stabilisation may have required a new body.
The sony 24mp BSI chip may have been scheduled for an earlier release.
AF modules and refinements may have been delayed due to teething problems in the development of the ring type SDM.

So if pentax had committed to making a new body aps-c flagship with all of these parts then they are going to wait for the new BSI sensor from sony and perfect a new AF module before releasing it. They would have used up all the K3 parts and may of started manufacturing components for the new camera, but are still missing key parts. Thatís why they would have brough forward the K1ii even if other cameras are needed first.
02-16-2018, 03:27 PM   #457
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There is a new stm/plm lens design coming forward. Its much faster with Current (what we have) cameras. I believe alot of the delay is they have to make it work with next generation cameras. This is a critical time in developing the future. I expect delays. Get this lens focusing motor to work AND be furure proof. THEN get cameras that can optimize on this. Don't put out 10 new lenses now. Get it right and then let them come.
02-16-2018, 03:46 PM   #458
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What new PLM lens? Do you have aby source for that?

02-16-2018, 04:19 PM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Most of the supposed "realists" are just closet pessimists.

Known deficiencies of Nikon: no IBIS/PS/astrotracer/AA-simulator, bloated over-priced pro bodies, defective products. Nikon sucks!

Known deficiencies of Canon: no IBIS/PS/astrotracer/AA-simulator, bloated over-priced pro bodies, crap sensors. Canon sucks!

Known deficiencies of Sony: flimsy over-priced bodies with bad WR, crap software, baked RAWs, no OVFs. Sony sucks!

Known deficiencies of Fuji: waxy purple X-trans images, silly retro dials, no FF, no OVFs. Fuji sucks!

Known deficiencies of Pentax: slow tracking AF, slow SD, slow USB, crap video. Pentax sucks!


To the supposed "realist," every camera on the market sucks runny dog turds in some way and must a complete failure. And yet these brands and cameras continue to sell (even the DSLRs!) Moreover, people take great pictures with all these cameras every day. (It must really irritate the "realist" that people have the gall to enjoy imperfect products.)

-----

As normhead said, it's up to each photographer to figure out what matters to them and pick a brand & camera that's the best fit. The true realist would be just as vocal with their praise as with their criticism. The true realist would know that every feature comes with a cost in either money, size, or other features.

For me, what's "wrong" with Pentax does not matter much and is vastly outweighed by what's right with Pentax. And although Pentax might sell more cameras if they fixed their supposed deficiencies, they might sell fewer cameras if the fix adds too much costs or prevents Pentax from focusing on improvements that differentiate Pentax from Canikonyji.
I was going to ignore this thread but the KP chat is really interesting and this post is genius there is a lot said about the shortcomings of the different Pentax models but providing you don't want them for video or fast moving stuff, the quality is undeniable (and much admired by fans of Nikon) as is the quality of its users as indicated by this forum. Thanks guys for a fascinating read
02-16-2018, 04:59 PM   #460
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@reed yes sdm/plm means the soon 50mm and 85mm
02-17-2018, 12:26 AM - 1 Like   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
So, why is everyone upset?
I don't experience "everyone". More "a loud handful". No reason to be upset.
02-17-2018, 10:37 AM - 3 Likes   #462
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There's good baking & there's bad baking and only a careful analysis of the images will reveal what's going on.

The key fact is that the RAW signal coming out of the sensor is not the pure image formed by the light. Instead, it's the light image transformed by the pixel-by-pixel attributes of the sensor and then corrupted by other sensor & electronic artifacts (voltage offsets, thermal noise, read noise, hot pixels, dead pixels, EMI, cross-talk, amplifier artifacts, ADC artifacts, etc.) If the baking process is all about recovering the image and suppressing the artifacts, then it's all good. In contrast, Sony's rightly maligned baking was there to reduce the file size of the RAW as well as deal with hot-pixels but it corrupted some kinds of high-DR images such as very bright points of light on a very black background (aka astrophotography).

Although it's very wise to be concerned about exactly how RAWs are processed, whether Pentax employs better analog semiconductors or better digital semiconductors & software to get the best signal with the least noise is irrelevant. A properly cooked RAW is actually a truer record of the scene than the raw raw.

There are statistical analyses that can establish whether Pentax is cooking the RAWs to legitimately cook-off the artifacts in the sensor or is boiling them to mush.
02-17-2018, 12:49 PM - 3 Likes   #463
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
There are statistical analyses that can establish whether Pentax is cooking the RAWs to legitimately cook-off the artifacts in the sensor or is boiling them to mush.
I can see it now. Soon we'll be saying we want our RAWs al dente....
02-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #464
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
the pure image formed by the light.
With all due respect, considering an image with noise "pure" might be a little bit misleading. The light coming to the camera is "pure" noise is an impurity. Calling a noisy the pure image is in my mind backwards. If you can clean up noise without affecting resolution, you are cleaning up impurities. Not creating them.
02-17-2018, 03:07 PM   #465
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I can see it now. Soon we'll be saying we want our RAWs al dente....
I couldn't have any it other way!
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