Pentax K3ii officially discontinued

**ffking** · 02-16-2018, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by The Squirrel Mafia

From playing around & comparing lots of low ISO to high ISO "studio scene" RAW files from Imaging-Resource, DPR, & other websites in RawTherapee & DxO 11, about the only thing I have noticed with the K-70 in particular is that as the ISO climbs, the color begins to fade out when compared to the K-3II or even the K-50. It does hold on to fine detail better than the K-3II, but the color definitely starts fading out when the ISO gets higher. You can start to notice it at ISO 6400, more noticeable at ISO 12800, & really obvious by ISO 25600. Like the color gets washed out. I'm guessing that the K-70 was used as the test platform for that new chip. If I had a K-70, I'd still set the auto ISO from 100 to 25600 & basically turn images after ISO 12800 into black & white.

That sort of makes sense from my largely ignorant point of view - the modern Pentax cameras are much more aggressive towards colour noise than luminance noise - quite rightly as colour noise is plain ugly while luminance noise is just like digital grain - it can look good in some sorts of photography

victormeldrew · 02-16-2018, 09:36 AM

Wow.... How did 'K-3II discontinued' turn into an argument on how and how well the KP's noise reduction works?
If this thread stays open until CP+ it will have turned into an argument on the merits of Trump vs Hitler.
Unsubscribing now...

AyeYo · 02-16-2018, 09:44 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by victormeldrew

Wow.... How did 'K-3II discontinued' turn into an argument on how and how well the KP's noise reduction works?
If this thread stays open until CP+ it will have turned into an argument on the merits of Trump vs Hitler.
Unsubscribing now...

Because the K3ii getting discontinued is a major business decision, which then had other business decisions getting brought up like the creation of the KP. Not at all a stretch.

Wheatfield · 02-16-2018, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by WillWeaverRVA

This is absolutely disappointing. It doesn't even have native KAF4 lens support (the original K-1 needed a firmware update for this)! I understand this is a FF camera at a low price point, but as a sports photographer I would probably even take a Nikon D610 over this if I had the money.

As a sports photographer you bought into the wrong system right from the start.

---------- Post added 02-16-18 at 10:53 AM ----------

Originally posted by victormeldrew

Wow.... How did 'K-3II discontinued' turn into an argument on how and how well the KP's noise reduction works?
If this thread stays open until CP+ it will have turned into an argument on the merits of Trump vs Hitler.
Unsubscribing now...

Hitler liked dogs. That is one thing in his favour anyway.

reh321 · 02-16-2018, 09:59 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by beholder3

You just need to look at some sample images:
Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review
Clear b&w lines are best.
You only need to use your own eyes and check for which camera you see the most clear line separation the farthest to the left, with as little moire as possible.
The KP looses the least detail with the Fuji XT2 being 90% similar. Very closely the K-3II follows and the Nikon clearly lags behind (same with Canon 80D or Sony 6500).

From what you can get out of Lightroom the KP seems the Queen of APSC noise and detail retention.

So, why is everyone upset?

photoptimist · 02-16-2018, 10:37 AM - **6 Likes**

Most of the supposed "realists" are just closet pessimists.

Known deficiencies of Nikon: no IBIS/PS/astrotracer/AA-simulator, bloated over-priced pro bodies, defective products. Nikon sucks!

Known deficiencies of Canon: no IBIS/PS/astrotracer/AA-simulator, bloated over-priced pro bodies, crap sensors. Canon sucks!

Known deficiencies of Sony: flimsy over-priced bodies with bad WR, crap software, baked RAWs, no OVFs. Sony sucks!

Known deficiencies of Fuji: waxy purple X-trans images, silly retro dials, no FF, no OVFs. Fuji sucks!

Known deficiencies of Pentax: slow tracking AF, slow SD, slow USB, crap video. Pentax sucks!

To the supposed "realist," every camera on the market sucks runny dog turds in some way and must a complete failure. And yet these brands and cameras continue to sell (even the DSLRs!) Moreover, people take great pictures with all these cameras every day. (It must really irritate the "realist" that people have the gall to enjoy imperfect products.)

-----

As normhead said, it's up to each photographer to figure out what matters to them and pick a brand & camera that's the best fit. The true realist would be just as vocal with their praise as with their criticism. The true realist would know that every feature comes with a cost in either money, size, or other features.

For me, what's "wrong" with Pentax does not matter much and is vastly outweighed by what's right with Pentax. And although Pentax might sell more cameras if they fixed their supposed deficiencies, they might sell fewer cameras if the fix adds too much costs or prevents Pentax from focusing on improvements that differentiate Pentax from Canikonyji.

thibs · 02-16-2018, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

You folks dismissing the KP for "baking" RAWs, did you test the actual camera?

You mean that some would not want to understand that once you go further than the sensor built-in amplification, the rest is always completely software ?

In the K5 case, if I'm not mistaken, the sensor gain went up to about iso 1600 (3200 for Fuji but that's just pulling legs) the rest was all software. So if course it's cooked. Always and by all.

Not that I'm fan of it...

Kunzite · 02-16-2018, 10:46 AM

What I mean is that you don't have a clue about what they're doing with this Accelerator Unit.

thibs · 02-16-2018, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

What I mean is that you don't have a clue about what they're doing with this Accelerator Unit.

Slow down I'm not the enemy here, if at least you take time to read properly.

Kunzite · 02-16-2018, 11:20 AM

Thibs, I'm not treating you as an enemy; I'm stating a fact.
And believe me, I know what software is.

reh321 · 02-16-2018, 11:21 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

What I mean is that you don't have a clue about what they're doing with this Accelerator Unit.

We don't know how it works.
By looking at KP images, we should be able to tell what effect it has.

Kunzite · 02-16-2018, 11:23 AM

Yes, and that's what we should do, instead of moaning about "baked" RAWs.

thibs · 02-16-2018, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Thibs, I'm not treating you as an enemy; I'm stating a fact.
And believe me, I know what software is.

I never said anything about what the accelerator does or does not.

What I say is: the raw is cooked/baked/whatever anyway so the debate about whether to cook or not to cook (no, no kitchen) is completely pointless and so is the debate about the accelerator because even if it did, it would not change a thing.

Now, as you say, we dunno how it works. And I never wrote I did.

Kunzite · 02-16-2018, 11:43 AM

The problems here are the unverified assumptions about detail loss and doing it better on a PC.

biz-engineer · 02-16-2018, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

Justin Kruger, David Dunning: Unskilled and unaware of it. How difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. In: Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

If you read that article, you might fall into a loop hole.

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02-16-2018, 09:21 AM	#436
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by The Squirrel Mafia From playing around & comparing lots of low ISO to high ISO "studio scene" RAW files from Imaging-Resource, DPR, & other websites in RawTherapee & DxO 11, about the only thing I have noticed with the K-70 in particular is that as the ISO climbs, the color begins to fade out when compared to the K-3II or even the K-50. It does hold on to fine detail better than the K-3II, but the color definitely starts fading out when the ISO gets higher. You can start to notice it at ISO 6400, more noticeable at ISO 12800, & really obvious by ISO 25600. Like the color gets washed out. I'm guessing that the K-70 was used as the test platform for that new chip. If I had a K-70, I'd still set the auto ISO from 100 to 25600 & basically turn images after ISO 12800 into black & white. That sort of makes sense from my largely ignorant point of view - the modern Pentax cameras are much more aggressive towards colour noise than luminance noise - quite rightly as colour noise is plain ugly while luminance noise is just like digital grain - it can look good in some sorts of photography

02-16-2018, 09:36 AM	#437
victormeldrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: South West UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,493	Wow.... How did 'K-3II discontinued' turn into an argument on how and how well the KP's noise reduction works? If this thread stays open until CP+ it will have turned into an argument on the merits of Trump vs Hitler. Unsubscribing now...

02-16-2018, 09:44 AM - 1 Like	#438
AyeYo Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 78	Originally posted by victormeldrew Wow.... How did 'K-3II discontinued' turn into an argument on how and how well the KP's noise reduction works? If this thread stays open until CP+ it will have turned into an argument on the merits of Trump vs Hitler. Unsubscribing now... Because the K3ii getting discontinued is a major business decision, which then had other business decisions getting brought up like the creation of the KP. Not at all a stretch.

02-16-2018, 09:51 AM	#439
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by WillWeaverRVA This is absolutely disappointing. It doesn't even have native KAF4 lens support (the original K-1 needed a firmware update for this)! I understand this is a FF camera at a low price point, but as a sports photographer I would probably even take a Nikon D610 over this if I had the money. As a sports photographer you bought into the wrong system right from the start. ---------- Post added 02-16-18 at 10:53 AM ---------- Originally posted by victormeldrew Wow.... How did 'K-3II discontinued' turn into an argument on how and how well the KP's noise reduction works? If this thread stays open until CP+ it will have turned into an argument on the merits of Trump vs Hitler. Unsubscribing now... Hitler liked dogs. That is one thing in his favour anyway.

02-16-2018, 09:59 AM - 1 Like	#440
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by beholder3 You just need to look at some sample images: Studio shot comparison: Digital Photography Review Clear b&w lines are best. You only need to use your own eyes and check for which camera you see the most clear line separation the farthest to the left, with as little moire as possible. The KP looses the least detail with the Fuji XT2 being 90% similar. Very closely the K-3II follows and the Nikon clearly lags behind (same with Canon 80D or Sony 6500). From what you can get out of Lightroom the KP seems the Queen of APSC noise and detail retention. So, why is everyone upset?

02-16-2018, 10:37 AM - 6 Likes	#441
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,122	Most of the supposed "realists" are just closet pessimists. Known deficiencies of Nikon: no IBIS/PS/astrotracer/AA-simulator, bloated over-priced pro bodies, defective products. Nikon sucks! Known deficiencies of Canon: no IBIS/PS/astrotracer/AA-simulator, bloated over-priced pro bodies, crap sensors. Canon sucks! Known deficiencies of Sony: flimsy over-priced bodies with bad WR, crap software, baked RAWs, no OVFs. Sony sucks! Known deficiencies of Fuji: waxy purple X-trans images, silly retro dials, no FF, no OVFs. Fuji sucks! Known deficiencies of Pentax: slow tracking AF, slow SD, slow USB, crap video. Pentax sucks! To the supposed "realist," every camera on the market sucks runny dog turds in some way and must a complete failure. And yet these brands and cameras continue to sell (even the DSLRs!) Moreover, people take great pictures with all these cameras every day. (It must really irritate the "realist" that people have the gall to enjoy imperfect products.) ----- As normhead said, it's up to each photographer to figure out what matters to them and pick a brand & camera that's the best fit. The true realist would be just as vocal with their praise as with their criticism. The true realist would know that every feature comes with a cost in either money, size, or other features. For me, what's "wrong" with Pentax does not matter much and is vastly outweighed by what's right with Pentax. And although Pentax might sell more cameras if they fixed their supposed deficiencies, they might sell fewer cameras if the fix adds too much costs or prevents Pentax from focusing on improvements that differentiate Pentax from Canikonyji.

02-16-2018, 10:38 AM	#442
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Kunzite You folks dismissing the KP for "baking" RAWs, did you test the actual camera? You mean that some would not want to understand that once you go further than the sensor built-in amplification, the rest is always completely software ? In the K5 case, if I'm not mistaken, the sensor gain went up to about iso 1600 (3200 for Fuji but that's just pulling legs) the rest was all software. So if course it's cooked. Always and by all. Not that I'm fan of it...

02-16-2018, 10:46 AM	#443
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	What I mean is that you don't have a clue about what they're doing with this Accelerator Unit.

02-16-2018, 10:54 AM	#444
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Kunzite What I mean is that you don't have a clue about what they're doing with this Accelerator Unit. Slow down I'm not the enemy here, if at least you take time to read properly.

02-16-2018, 11:20 AM	#445
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Thibs, I'm not treating you as an enemy; I'm stating a fact. And believe me, I know what software is.

02-16-2018, 11:21 AM - 1 Like	#446
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Kunzite What I mean is that you don't have a clue about what they're doing with this Accelerator Unit. We don't know how it works. By looking at KP images, we should be able to tell what effect it has.

02-16-2018, 11:23 AM	#447
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Yes, and that's what we should do, instead of moaning about "baked" RAWs.

02-16-2018, 11:32 AM	#448
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Kunzite Thibs, I'm not treating you as an enemy; I'm stating a fact. And believe me, I know what software is. I never said anything about what the accelerator does or does not. What I say is: the raw is cooked/baked/whatever anyway so the debate about whether to cook or not to cook (no, no kitchen) is completely pointless and so is the debate about the accelerator because even if it did, it would not change a thing. Now, as you say, we dunno how it works. And I never wrote I did.

02-16-2018, 11:43 AM	#449
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The problems here are the unverified assumptions about detail loss and doing it better on a PC.

02-16-2018, 11:59 AM	#450
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by beholder3 Justin Kruger, David Dunning: Unskilled and unaware of it. How difficulties in recognizing one’s own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments. In: Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. If you read that article, you might fall into a loop hole.