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02-12-2018, 10:34 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
They have never planned to stop with high end APS-C. But they haven't got the structure to make both at the same time, so FF and new lenses had the priority recent time. And yes, I dont know when a high end APS-C will come, but I know it will come..same with a new GR I am 100% focused on FF to be fair. I will never go back to APS-C But I also certain on, that we will see the future for Pentax the coming months.
I don't think anyone suggested an end to APS-C as such of course. You will have to admit though, that we do have a doubtful situation here, when Pentax' aps-c flagship dates back 4,5 years without a successor in sight. Even if aps-c does not interest you personally, it must be clear that aps-c is pushed further back with the lack of a new higher end release this year. The question is how far Pentax can push it back before it goes beyond repair.

Such concerns now surface with CP+ in sight, and I for one truly wonder if Ricoh can give aps-c users a reason not to leave, coming CP+.
In spite of your position as ambassador, and your exitement about FF, you must surely understand the concerns among aps-c users.

Chris

02-12-2018, 10:42 AM - 1 Like   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
[...]Bodies not compatible with KAF4 will physically mount and focus a KAF4 lens but won't be able to control its aperture and so will only shoot the lens wide open. [...]
If the lens gave you a random aperture it would be more 'fun' to shoot with.
02-12-2018, 10:45 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
(...)

Just the other day asahi man was just saying (in that other place that must never be named ) that Ricoh had decided to not do any more high end APS-C cameras but then recently changed their mind due to customer feedback, and now want to do K-3 successor but might take a while (until next year) to do that.

(...)
Actually asahi man didn't write that and what he wrote over there is close to what kenspo wrote here.

02-12-2018, 10:51 AM - 8 Likes   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Such concerns now surface with CP+ in sight, and I for one truly wonder if Ricoh can give aps-c users a reason not to leave, coming CP+
With respect, isn't that a little extreme?

We're only talking about "flagship" APS-C users, since the K-70 and K-P are still current and extremely capable.

For the flagship APS-C user population, we can break that down into those that (a) actually need a new body, (b) want but don't need one, (c) don't want one yet, but might be persuaded to buy one, and (d) neither want nor need one because they're satisfied with what they have (or can't justify the spend).

Of those groups, only (a) might have to consider leaving if a new flagship body doesn't materialise soon, and I'd suggest that's a pretty small group. But if they're heavily invested in lenses, they could still get a new K-3II, used K-3, new or used K-P, K-70 or any other model while they wait for a new flagship to materialise. Let's be honest, even the older bodies are incredibly capable, and I doubt we have many photographers on these forums who are unable to achieve what they want due to camera body limitations.

02-12-2018, 11:25 AM - 1 Like   #185
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Seconded BigMackCam.

Pentax is said to have one of the most complete APS-C systems, I think even the folks at DPR have said so, in spite of their tendency to be Pentax naysayers. It doesn't make sense to abandon a known strength.

A brief hiatus perhaps for APS-C would make sense and fits in with the also established fact that Ricoh's camera division is small and has limited resources, hence the extended (permanent even?) hiatus for the Q-mount.

Personally, I don't like what I see as the high-turnover rate of consumer electronics being imposed on cameras, and the popular expectations that creates. Obviously that side of things is a strength of Sony and Panasonic, and is a way of applying pressure on competitors I would guess.

For me at this point, between the K-3II and KP, I'm leaning toward the latter, even though there's be additional cost and space needed for the different batteries and extra chargers for the KP and I'd lose the deeper buffer of the K-3II its IR remote sensors. I'd gain built in WiFi and better high ISO.


QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, isn't that a little extreme?

We're only talking about "flagship" APS-C users, since the K-70 and K-P are still current and extremely capable.

For the flagship APS-C user population, we can break that down into those that (a) actually need a new body, (b) want but don't need one, (c) don't want one yet, but might be persuaded to buy one, and (d) neither want nor need one because they're satisfied with what they have (or can't justify the spend).

Of those groups, only (a) might have to consider leaving if a new flagship body doesn't materialise soon, and I'd suggest that's a pretty small group. But if they're heavily invested in lenses, they could still get a new K-3II, used K-3, new or used K-P, K-70 or any other model while they wait for a new flagship to materialise. Let's be honest, even the older bodies are incredibly capable, and I doubt we have many photographers on these forums who are unable to achieve what they want due to camera body limitations.
02-12-2018, 11:34 AM - 1 Like   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, isn't that a little extreme?

We're only talking about "flagship" APS-C users, since the K-70 and K-P are still current and extremely capable.
No, you are only talking about a fraction of those users, because for a substantial part of K-5 and K-5II flagship users the K-P fits the bill very well. And even K-3 and K-3II flagship users have upgraded to a KP.
There is no proof that the remaining ones number even as high as those flagship users who see the KP as perfect fit.
So we listen to a fraction (APSC) of a fraction (current flagship users) of a fraction (those who do not like the KP's advantages) of a <3% marketshare (I'd call that a fraction as well) userbase.

I know that is hard so swallow if one believes the sun circles around oneself, but it wont change facts.
02-12-2018, 11:55 AM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, isn't that a little extreme?

We're only talking about "flagship" APS-C users, since the K-70 and K-P are still current and extremely capable.

For the flagship APS-C user population, we can break that down into those that (a) actually need a new body, (b) want but don't need one, (c) don't want one yet, but might be persuaded to buy one, and (d) neither want nor need one because they're satisfied with what they have (or can't justify the spend).

Of those groups, only (a) might have to consider leaving if a new flagship body doesn't materialise soon, and I'd suggest that's a pretty small group. But if they're heavily invested in lenses, they could still get a new K-3II, used K-3, new or used K-P, K-70 or any other model while they wait for a new flagship to materialise. Let's be honest, even the older bodies are incredibly capable, and I doubt we have many photographers on these forums who are unable to achieve what they want due to camera body limitations.
You are right, it will of course not effect all the APS-C users, and with the K70 and KP, Pentax will still continue to attract new APS-C shooters, that can upgrade at a later stage to the K1 platform, which in the past was not an option. I had to venture into Sony FE mirrorless myself in the past, when the FF camera was only rumored, but never materialized.
The part of the wildlife, sports, kids around the house, birding APS-C crowd will most likely have to decide whether the KP platform is enough, which could still be the case.
I might get a lot of good shots with the DA560 on the KP with battery grip.
But that last part has, even though I played with the idea, become a bit odd.
In short: APS-C shooters in general could have had so much more. It;s a good moment in time, prior to CP+ 2018, to re-evaluate....

Chris
02-12-2018, 11:57 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
There is no proof that the remaining ones number even as high as those flagship users who see the KP as perfect fit.

I know that is hard so swallow if one believes the sun circles around oneself, but it wont change facts.
Funny

02-12-2018, 12:08 PM - 4 Likes   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
... hard times for Pentax APS-C.
Just my opinion though, only my opinion!
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
... I for one truly wonder if Ricoh can give aps-c users a reason not to leave...
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
...
In short: APS-C shooters in general could have had so much more.
Just your opinion, but must. you. repeat. it. 75. times? The last two pages of your posting history seem to be nothing but that single song. Maybe you could take a few days to go shooting and then put up a photo in one of the photo sections? I doubt anyone reading these forums is unaware of your unhappiness by now.
02-12-2018, 12:13 PM - 1 Like   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I thought he had said 2017 was going to be the year of primes...
It wasnt AM, it was Kenspo with YOP...but AM was the one who pointed out the 35mm under development.
02-12-2018, 12:42 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
You are right, it will of course not effect all the APS-C users, and with the K70 and KP, Pentax will still continue to attract new APS-C shooters, that can upgrade at a later stage to the K1 platform, which in the past was not an option. I had to venture into Sony FE mirrorless myself in the past, when the FF camera was only rumored, but never materialized.
The part of the wildlife, sports, kids around the house, birding APS-C crowd will most likely have to decide whether the KP platform is enough, which could still be the case.
I might get a lot of good shots with the DA560 on the KP with battery grip.
But that last part has, even though I played with the idea, become a bit odd.
In short: APS-C shooters in general could have had so much more. It;s a good moment in time, prior to CP+ 2018, to re-evaluate....
What shots are you unable to take as a result of working with your existing body, Chris? I ask that not just of you, but of anyone waiting impatiently for the next APS-C flagship to arrive and potentially looking at the EXIT sign. I'm not suggesting you and others wouldn't benefit from a K-P or other newer body, but what would you expect (or hope) it could do that would really transform your photography as opposed to offering incremental improvements in certain areas?

I take quite a lot of shots in low or less-than-ideal light (we seem to specialise in such lighting here in the UK ), so I'd love to have better high ISO performance from my cameras. But my K-3 and K-3II do pretty well, and careful (dare I claim "skillful"?) post-processing gets me very pleasing results at ISO 6400. Depending on the subject matter, I'm even happy shooting them considerably higher than that. Would I benefit from the high ISO performance of the K-P? Sure. Have I bought one? Nope. I can work with what I have, and I don't feel I miss out much for the few occasions where my K-3/K-3II and Lightroom or Darktable can't cope...

And then there's the glass. There's a handful of Pentax lenses I've grown quite attached to. I'm used to the field of view and how they will render in certain situations, and I don't want to give them up. To a large extent, my camera bodies are secondary - they're just digital backs for those lenses. I don't know how attached you and others are to their lenses, but for me, it's a big reason to stay with the brand.

Anyway, for those frustrated by waiting for a K-3II replacement, I hope one arrives sooner rather than later, and I hope it offers everything you wish for. I may even buy one myself in a few years' time - when it's about to be replaced and reaches an acceptable close-out price

Last edited by BigMackCam; 02-12-2018 at 12:58 PM.
02-12-2018, 12:49 PM - 1 Like   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
You are right, it will of course not effect all the APS-C users, and with the K70 and KP, Pentax will still continue to attract new APS-C shooters, that can upgrade at a later stage to the K1 platform, which in the past was not an option. I had to venture into Sony FE mirrorless myself in the past, when the FF camera was only rumored, but never materialized.
The part of the wildlife, sports, kids around the house, birding APS-C crowd will most likely have to decide whether the KP platform is enough, which could still be the case.
I might get a lot of good shots with the DA560 on the KP with battery grip.
But that last part has, even though I played with the idea, become a bit odd.
In short: APS-C shooters in general could have had so much more. It;s a good moment in time, prior to CP+ 2018, to re-evaluate....

Chris
Chris,

I can understand your situation. But I am getting more and more the impression that, first, you are choosing who and what to believe on some scenario you have already built up beforehand.
Second you seem to have a hard time to make the step you also already seem to have decided on and are trying to find a rationale for your decision and maybe someone who seconds you in it.
If I follow your posting history and presume what you say is really true, that it is crucial for you to have a top of the line APS-C camera, which definitely SURPASSES the K3-II, and this not in one year but NOW, you, in this line of thinking, might not have another option.
If it is really wise to come to this conclusion and be so expressive on it just some 10 to 14 days before Ricoh will announce some new things and also provide some information on future products, is something I can not judge.
02-12-2018, 12:58 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Which to me makes a whole lot more sense than Ricoh not knowing what they want to do and changing their mind all the time.
Gotta say, as someone who's been following Pentax's ventures into mirrorless over the years,
"Ricoh not knowing what they want to do and changing their mind all the time" certainly resonates with me.
02-12-2018, 02:31 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I planned to buy lenses this year, anyway. I do hope they're working on performance though...
Check out the polish, I'm sure there will be a few surprises

Last edited by beachgardener; 02-12-2018 at 02:39 PM.
02-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #195
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So am I. But, what exactly?
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