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02-18-2018, 12:58 PM - 1 Like   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
There's no sense chasing after every other brand's features and performance... not with the limited resources it has available.
Yep. This is a shrinking market, not the same as we are used to seeing in nearly all other industries / products. It takes a different management style to survive in that type of market. Growth at any cost is a disaster. Growth at all will be difficult. Maintaining profitability by efficiency and low risk improvements to existing products is the only way to go.

Keep your head down, think conservatively and focus on your user base.

02-18-2018, 01:07 PM - 3 Likes   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I agree, and nor should it. What it should do - and seems to be doing - is to keep improving within the niche it already occupies. There's no sense chasing after every other brand's features and performance... not with the limited resources it has available. Far better to take what it already does well, and keep improving
What bothers me is that people here seem to pay attention to an 'improvement' made by Pentax only if it affects a camera they might want to purchase some day. Pentax introduced the "accelerator" chip over a year ago, and only now are some members paying attention to what it does now that it is being included in the K-1ii. Pentax is walking left foot, right foot, and every step counts regardless of which shoe one is focused on.
02-18-2018, 01:35 PM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
every
baby........

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
step counts


---------- Post added 02-19-18 at 07:37 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
the grass may look greener elsewhere.
gra$$ier for sure!
02-19-2018, 06:22 AM - 1 Like   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I agree, and nor should it. What it should do - and seems to be doing - is to keep improving within the niche it already occupies. There's no sense chasing after every other brand's features and performance... not with the limited resources it has available. Far better to take what it already does well, and keep improving
Couldn’t agree more... I am excited for whatever Pentax delivers. I do believe a flagship level crop camera will come. If it takes a year more OK. Even though I am not a full frame guy I am excited at the new K1 II. I just want them to be able to play in this ever changing market for a long time. Shot with my K3 II and 20-40 over weekend and was reminded what an incredible camera the K3 II is.

02-19-2018, 07:57 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by gm4life Quote
Couldn’t agree more... I am excited for whatever Pentax delivers. I do believe a flagship level crop camera will come. If it takes a year more OK. Even though I am not a full frame guy I am excited at the new K1 II. I just want them to be able to play in this ever changing market for a long time. Shot with my K3 II and 20-40 over weekend and was reminded what an incredible camera the K3 II is.
In one of the K-1II threads, @kenspo today confirmed that a high end APS-C camera is definitely coming... we just don't know when, but I'm sure we'll find out in good time
02-19-2018, 08:05 AM - 2 Likes   #261
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But we already decided the KP is the Pentax flagship, now and forever! Who is kenspo - and who is Ricoh Imaging - to tell us otherwise!
02-19-2018, 08:42 AM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But we already decided the KP is the Pentax flagship, now and forever! Who is kenspo - and who is Ricoh Imaging - to tell us otherwise!
Wow, now and [I]forever[I]?
Following the normal upgrade cycle, the successor to the KP should be released between february-september 2019.
It would not surprised if this is the camera Kenspo is referring to.
Would not surprise me to see the KP discontinued when the new one comes out.
Or do you actually believe the KP and this new "high end" or whatever camera will co-exist together?

Chris
02-19-2018, 08:51 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Or do you actually believe the KP and this new "high end" or whatever camera will co-exist together?
Depends on your definition of 'co-exist'. It appears that Pentax builds things in batches or production runs. So as far as we know the KP is already 'discontinued' as far as production is concerned. But it remains on the active list until stocks go low enough that they can no longer supply distributors. Then they mark it discontinued and start shuffling boxes between distributors to even out the supply chain.

As to how many body 'lines' Pentax will maintain? Who knows. The KP might be the first generation of a new line and be replaced by a KP mkII. or it might have been a technology demonstrator and will not return. It makes little difference because the only thing that is important is that it has a k-mount on it.

Honestly, what difference does it make if a camera body is discontinued? That changes nothing as far as the lenses are concerned. The only thing that matters is that K-mount not be discontinued.

02-19-2018, 09:06 AM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Wow, now and [I]forever[I]?
Absolutely. With an update or two, but still a KP. Isn't this the idea, that Pentax will never make a true K-3 II replacement - let alone a more advanced APS-C flagship?

QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Following the normal upgrade cycle, the successor to the KP should be released between february-september 2019.
It would not surprised if this is the camera Kenspo is referring to.
Yeah. Right. Precisely what I was talking about.

QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Or do you actually believe the KP and this new "high end" or whatever camera will co-exist together?
I said so since the KP was announced. The KP seems designed to leave room for a more advanced model.

Anyway, enjoy yours It might be a while until the camera Kenspo is talking about would be on the market.
And, whatever camera or system you'll be using, I'm looking forward to see your images.
02-19-2018, 09:09 AM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Depends on your definition of 'co-exist'. It appears that Pentax builds things in batches or production runs. So as far as we know the KP is already 'discontinued' as far as production is concerned. But it remains on the active list until stocks go low enough that they can no longer supply distributors. Then they mark it discontinued and start shuffling boxes between distributors to even out the supply chain.

As to how many body 'lines' Pentax will maintain? Who knows. The KP might be the first generation of a new line and be replaced by a KP mkII. or it might have been a technology demonstrator and will not return. It makes little difference because the only thing that is important is that it has a k-mount on it.

Honestly, what difference does it make if a camera body is discontinued? That changes nothing as far as the lenses are concerned. The only thing that matters is that K-mount not be discontinued.
I guess it would simply be nice to clear up any uncertainty/confusion.
The thing is, people were actually expecting a D500 like Pentax APS-C flagship, and this was more or less supported by the view that the KP was nót a flagship camera, but "only" a middle class camera.
I guess that for a while I myself even expected a D500 level (or near) camera.
I don't like the vagueness that surrounded the KP launch, if Pentax/Ricoh want to experiment, fine, but let them at least be clear about it. Otherwise false expectations arise, and b.t.w.: they shoot themselves in the foot because the KP was never accepted partly due to its vague launch.
Asahiman recently said that Pentax is working on a APS-C camera higher than the KP, but "not a D500 level camera. More a better KP".
So the next crop camera will be better than the KP, but not a high end D500 level camera. How much better than the KP? Who knows?
Ricoh/Pentax are the only ones that know.

---------- Post added 02-19-18 at 05:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Absolutely. With an update or two, but still a KP. Isn't this the idea, that Pentax will never make a true K-3 II replacement - let alone a more advanced APS-C flagship?


Yeah. Right. Precisely what I was talking about.


I said so since the KP was announced. The KP seems designed to leave room for a more advanced model.

Anyway, enjoy yours It might be a while until the camera Kenspo is talking about would be on the market.
I sure will! But remember asahiman:"not a D500 level camera. More a better KP." And don't rule out the possibility that it will be a KPmkII!
02-19-2018, 09:19 AM   #266
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Aaand... I said so since the KP was announced Not a D500 camera, but something higher up than the K-3 II - there's a lot of room between the two.

But let's properly quote Asahiman:
"That's the correct direction, but I don't think that APS-C pro body is the next target for Pentax.

More a better K-P than a new high end like D500."
He's expressing an opinion, not giving us an accurate outlook on the Pentax camera roadmap.
02-19-2018, 09:25 AM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Ricoh/Pentax are the only ones that know.
Correct. And maybe not everyone at Pentax. They would need approval from corporate, and even after that plans change.
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Asahiman recently said that Pentax is working on a APS-C camera higher than the KP, but "not a D500 level camera. More a better KP". So the next crop camera will be better than the KP, but not a high end D500 level camera. How much better than the KP? Who knows?
Maybe, maybe not. I've always wondered about Asahiman, he does get some things right but also a lot wrong. He hears things but how they are interpreted can end up different. And even if what he heard at some point in time was correct plans change.
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
The thing is, people were actually expecting a D500 like Pentax APS-C flagship, and this was more or less supported by the view that the KP was nót a flagship camera, but "only" a middle class camera.
I don't know about 'people' but all I ever expected was an eventual replacement for the K-3II with that form factor, top LCD, battery and so on. 'People' should stop trying to make Pentax the cheap Nikon and just accept them for what they are. If 'people' need a D500, they should buy a D500. I seriously doubt anything Pentax has in the pipeline is a D500 they just do not play in that area.
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
I don't like the vagueness that surrounded the KP launch, if Pentax/Ricoh want to experiment, fine, but let them at least be clear about it. Otherwise false expectations arise, and b.t.w.: they shoot themselves in the foot because the KP was never accepted partly due to its vague launch.
I guess it is human nature to try and fit things into neat categories. But Pentax has never done that, even their film bodies seemed to randomly jump around. But I don't know about 'shooting themselves in the foot'. Do you know what their goals were for the KP? They might have been exceeded months ago and Pentax is happy. We do not know. We do not even know what market they targeted with the KP. Or maybe no market at all, maybe it was just a technology demonstrator.

---------- Post added 02-19-18 at 08:29 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"That's the correct direction, but I don't think that APS-C pro body is the next target for Pentax. More a better K-P than a new high end like D500."
Also, what in his opinion is a pro body? The D500? If so that leaves a lot of room for a very nice K-3II replacement APS-C flagship. I do not think Pentax has ever called the K-5->K-3 line a 'pro' camera. Maybe enthusiast or prosumer or semi-pro, but I do not recall ever seeing pro used by them. Flagship does not have to mean 'pro'.
02-19-2018, 10:37 AM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Aaand... I said so since the KP was announced Not a D500 camera, but something higher up than the K-3 II - there's a lot of room between the two.

But let's properly quote Asahiman:
"That's the correct direction, but I don't think that APS-C pro body is the next target for Pentax.

More a better K-P than a new high end like D500."
He's expressing an opinion, not giving us an accurate outlook on the Pentax camera roadmap.
True, eventually the only reality, is the cameras launched and in our hands.

I will however myself no longer concede to wishful thinking, but to the most logical picture. Don't you realize the amount of wishful thinking that underlies your vision of the APS-C flagship, whilst no concrete evidence, nor reason to assume that a higher class flagship will actually materialize, has been surfacing in the past years (and please spare me the "are researching" snippets from Ricoh interviews)?
You, or I or anyone, might just as well be convinced that there is room for a D850/A7RIII like high end FF camera, but does that make it real or in any way probable?

My reason for believing, that a K3, and lately a Kp like level flagship will be where it is at, is that the KP is pretty much an APSC counterpart of the K1 FF camera. They will absolutely improve on it, just like they will approve on the K1, but there is no evidence, no real supporting rumors, nothing concrete to assume that a higher end APS-C camera (substantially higher than the KP) is anywhere on the horizon. An improved KP or KPmkII is much more likely, just as the K1mkII is much more likely (and soon real) than a significantly higher placed FF camera. Perhaps they will increase frame rate, buffer, re-introduce a top lcd sreen.

As I said, the total lack of such a "high end" APS-C flagship at CP+, the total lack of any credible info or rumors on such a camera, have made me realize that it is in fact a unicorn, a product of much wishful thinking, and I am not saying that it will defintely never appear, but it is just as likely, or unlikely, to appear as is a FF KSuper D850 level camera.
I simply prefer to stick to reality in future, and the KP is the APS-C flagship reality in my view. I bought it, and will also buy its successor in due time, until I have the funds to upgrade to Nikon/Sigma, or will possibly get Nikon/Nikon zoom as a second wildlife system next to Pentax.

Chris

Last edited by Chris Mak; 02-19-2018 at 10:51 AM.
02-19-2018, 10:51 AM - 1 Like   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
will possibly get Nikon/Nikon zoom as a second wildlife system next to Pentax
Chris if wildlife is your primary focus you should just make the move. Pentax is not going to be a good fit for wildlife shooters for a long time, if ever.

QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
An improved KP or KPmkII is much more likely
I disagree, and if we are just speaking of 'likely' then I think it is much more 'likely' that Pentax continue the k-7->k-5->k-3 line as the flagship than consider the KP as their top of the line APS-C. KP is a nice camera but to replace the K-3II it needs better frame rate, bigger battery, two card slots, top LCD, GPS.

But the good news is we will know in just a few days.
02-19-2018, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #270
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Chris, you're writing about my wishful thinking while doing a campaign - on two forums - trying to convince people of your preconceived idea. That's not cool.

I believe they'll eventually make a new APS-C flagship, because:
- they told us so
- the KP doesn't include several of the K-3's flagship features, and there's no reason why they would make a permanent step back
- I don't believe they're making the DA* 11-18mm for the KP
- Kenspo told us so
If that's too weak for you but your vague idea about the KP being a K-1 APS-C equivalent is good...

There is definitely room for an upper level FF DSLR, however I don't see it happening right now. Later? I don't know; stuff must happen.
Proof by analogy is fraud by the way, an upper level FF DSLR and an APS-C flagship are different things.

---------- Post added 19-02-18 at 08:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
But the good news is we will know in just a few days.
I'm not sure we'll be able to settle this APS-C flagship issue in a few days. We might have a full year ahead, of Chris Mak telling us how it won't ever come
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