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02-20-2018, 08:34 AM - 2 Likes   #106
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If handheld PS is true this is an awesome release! IQ will be insane. I'm very happy seeing Pentax focussing on IQ over speed.

02-20-2018, 08:52 AM - 1 Like   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Come on..stop complaining They need a good FF to stay alive..They will come with a new high end APS-C as I've stated too many times! They dont have the capacity to do both at the same time, and certainly not when they also are producing lenses.

Pentax are and will be a small company, without the same possibilities to shoot out new cameras and lenses in the same tempo as others do. If you are unhappy, the easy choice is to switch brands. The door is right there --->

Seems you took my post a bit personally...
I meant no harm!

Just stating as a wildlife photographer I have no intention of moving to FF and there seems to be this forgotten feeling among APS-C shooters.

The fact that they don't have the capacity to do both at the same time is the exact reason why there are other cameras that "should" (again in my mind) be released before the K-1 successor.

Seems most of the people here will agree with you. That's fine.

I didn't think many K-1 shooters were disappointed a year ago. So what is driving the demand for a K-1ii?
I just figured the K-3ii successor wouldn't get lapped by the K-1 when there were plenty of features already existing in the FF that could have been implemented by now into an APS-C body.

But this is all fine.
The K-3ii successor should theoretically be a significant upgrade from the K-3ii.

Given the availability of features that exist now between the K-1ii and the KP.


Again, I meant no offense or personal attack towards you.
Please understand that.

I'm also VERY happy with my current gear.
No intentions of leaving so that door can remain where it is for now.

Thanks!

---------- Post added 02-20-18 at 11:04 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Let's ask a different question. Which is easier, adding a few features on to an existing (very well received) camera to make it slightly better or launching a brand new camera with high end specifications? I feel like I'm a stuck record (just dated myself with that reference), but a K3 II sequel is going to need better auto focus (both number of points and tracking), better video (probably 4K), 9 to 10 fps frame rate, plus all of the little features that make Pentax cameras stand out.

This K-1 II release doesn't mean that Pentax isn't working a K3 III -- it has been stated clearly by Asahiman and Kenspo both that they are -- it is just a lot tougher project and the K-1 II was done and they decided to release it.

To me, the worst case scenario would Pentax doing with the K3 II sequel what they have done here -- taken the existing K3 II and just tweaked pixel shift, added an accelerator chip and called it a day. Yes, that would get a "high end APS-C" camera out the door, but it would likely fail in the current market and I don't really think Pentaxians would be happy long term with such a camera either, as it wouldn't provide enough of an improvement over the K3 II and KP to warrant its price point.
No one is saying they are not working on the K-3ii successor.

But if resources are really that limited, why the KP?
That was an entirely new camera focused at a relatively small market share, smaller than already existed in the Pentax family.

The K-1ii probably took some R&D, even if relatively simple compared to an APS-C successor.


It seems the direction is changing, and that's uncomfortable for some people. Myself included.
This doesn't mean, "JUMP SHIP!@?"

This just means we (APS-C shooters) feel a bit concerned.


I think the FF is a great focus for the company.
It's brought Pentax into the light and many of my photographer buddies have even said, "Hey, you guys are on the map" in a patronizing, sarcastic tone that only comes from Sony, Canon and Nikon shooters alike.

That's fine.

The only point here is typical product cycles would have suggested a K-3ii successor well before any K-1 successor.


If the K-1ii gets produced and sits for 3 years and the K-3iii comes out, then a K-3iV came out, you'd be right there saying the exact same thing.
02-20-2018, 09:25 AM   #108
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The possibility of handheld PixelShift is great, especially if they put it on top APS.
I was expecting to see some tech that would be used on the next APS (better AF), but probably not mature enough for a flagship camera. Or maybe that technology is HhPS...
02-20-2018, 09:29 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
Seems you took my post a bit personally...
I meant no harm!

Just stating as a wildlife photographer I have no intention of moving to FF and there seems to be this forgotten feeling among APS-C shooters.

The fact that they don't have the capacity to do both at the same time is the exact reason why there are other cameras that "should" (again in my mind) be released before the K-1 successor.

Seems most of the people here will agree with you. That's fine.

I didn't think many K-1 shooters were disappointed a year ago. So what is driving the demand for a K-1ii?
I just figured the K-3ii successor wouldn't get lapped by the K-1 when there were plenty of features already existing in the FF that could have been implemented by now into an APS-C body.

But this is all fine.
The K-3ii successor should theoretically be a significant upgrade from the K-3ii.

Given the availability of features that exist now between the K-1ii and the KP.


Again, I meant no offense or personal attack towards you.
Please understand that.

I'm also VERY happy with my current gear.
No intentions of leaving so that door can remain where it is for now.

Thanks!

---------- Post added 02-20-18 at 11:04 AM ----------



No one is saying they are not working on the K-3ii successor.

But if resources are really that limited, why the KP?
That was an entirely new camera focused at a relatively small market share, smaller than already existed in the Pentax family.

The K-1ii probably took some R&D, even if relatively simple compared to an APS-C successor.


It seems the direction is changing, and that's uncomfortable for some people. Myself included.
This doesn't mean, "JUMP SHIP!@?"

This just means we (APS-C shooters) feel a bit concerned.


I think the FF is a great focus for the company.
It's brought Pentax into the light and many of my photographer buddies have even said, "Hey, you guys are on the map" in a patronizing, sarcastic tone that only comes from Sony, Canon and Nikon shooters alike.

That's fine.

The only point here is typical product cycles would have suggested a K-3ii successor well before any K-1 successor.


If the K-1ii gets produced and sits for 3 years and the K-3iii comes out, then a K-3iV came out, you'd be right there saying the exact same thing.
Pentax is shooting for niches in the market where they don't have to match up directly against Canon/Nikon. The K-P is just such a niche product. I have no idea if it is doing well. It was released because it was easy -- basically a slightly upscale version of the K70 with some body style modifications from the K-1.

As I said before, if all you want is current K3 II tech with an improved pixel shift and accelerator chip, you can probably have it now. You could have it yesterday. If you want improved auto focus, video, better frame rates and buffer, it will take more time.

02-20-2018, 09:56 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by iudex Quote
a successor to a camera that is too long in the tooth (and which wasn´t a significant novelty even at the time of it´s release)
Are you referring to the K-3 or K-3ii? - the K-3 certainly introduced new features (AA simulator was the headline, which set the way for introducing more and more original new ways to use fine sensor movements) The K-3ii was a fairly minor upgrade, largely aimed at refreshing the K-3 and trialling in-body GPS, I would hazard, but it's not much older than the K-1. The K-3 was fairly up there when it was launched - the fps wasn't market leading, but it was very competitive, and the AF was a bit step forward. It would be great (short term) if Ricoh chucked a load of money at Pentax to speed things up, if it were that simple, but in a shrinking market that might not be very wise.
02-20-2018, 10:08 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
Seems you took my post a bit personally...
I meant no harm!

Just stating as a wildlife photographer I have no intention of moving to FF and there seems to be this forgotten feeling among APS-C shooters.

The fact that they don't have the capacity to do both at the same time is the exact reason why there are other cameras that "should" (again in my mind) be released before the K-1 successor.

Seems most of the people here will agree with you. That's fine.

I didn't think many K-1 shooters were disappointed a year ago. So what is driving the demand for a K-1ii?
I just figured the K-3ii successor wouldn't get lapped by the K-1 when there were plenty of features already existing in the FF that could have been implemented by now into an APS-C body.

But this is all fine.
The K-3ii successor should theoretically be a significant upgrade from the K-3ii.

Given the availability of features that exist now between the K-1ii and the KP.


Again, I meant no offense or personal attack towards you.
Please understand that.

I'm also VERY happy with my current gear.
No intentions of leaving so that door can remain where it is for now.

Thanks!

---------- Post added 02-20-18 at 11:04 AM ----------



No one is saying they are not working on the K-3ii successor.

But if resources are really that limited, why the KP?
That was an entirely new camera focused at a relatively small market share, smaller than already existed in the Pentax family.

The K-1ii probably took some R&D, even if relatively simple compared to an APS-C successor.


It seems the direction is changing, and that's uncomfortable for some people. Myself included.
This doesn't mean, "JUMP SHIP!@?"

This just means we (APS-C shooters) feel a bit concerned.


I think the FF is a great focus for the company.
It's brought Pentax into the light and many of my photographer buddies have even said, "Hey, you guys are on the map" in a patronizing, sarcastic tone that only comes from Sony, Canon and Nikon shooters alike.

That's fine.

The only point here is typical product cycles would have suggested a K-3ii successor well before any K-1 successor.


If the K-1ii gets produced and sits for 3 years and the K-3iii comes out, then a K-3iV came out, you'd be right there saying the exact same thing.
I chose not to even enter Ricoh's Facebook-based contest for a new K-1. In order for getting a K-1 to make sense, I would have to purchase several DFA lenses; yes, I do have some old manual focus film lenses, but for me, the K-1 would spend much of its time in 'crop mode' - in essence, the K-1 would be a fancy APS camera. The KP is that camera at half the cost ... honestly, I don't know how large that market is.


To me, there is little point to making the queue larger/faster unless they also improve the autofocus. Clearly they could have released a 'KP' with that improved queue, but I believe the complaints would be even louder now. As it is, words from Kenspo should give you hope of getting the camera you want once they get the AF figured out.
02-20-2018, 10:59 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
If handheld PS is true this is an awesome release! IQ will be insane. I'm very happy seeing Pentax focussing on IQ over speed.
I doubt that's the case.
02-20-2018, 11:30 AM - 1 Like   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Come on..stop complaining They need a good FF to stay alive..They will come with a new high end APS-C as I've stated too many times! They dont have the capacity to do both at the same time, and certainly not when they also are producing lenses.

Pentax are and will be a small company, without the same possibilities to shoot out new cameras and lenses in the same tempo as others do. If you are unhappy, the easy choice is to switch brands. The door is right there --->

Well said. Thank you.

02-20-2018, 11:31 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
For a company that already has a fairly small market share, this move doesn't make sense to me.

Again, this is all rumor until we actually get to see it and compare it to the K-1, but let's say speculation is correct and it's only a marginal upgrade...

I'd assume most users would seek out a K-1 over the K-1ii for the cost savings, thus skewing the perceived market share by having new merchandise just sit on shelves.

Meanwhile, the K-3ii successor is being held up... By what?

I read somewhere that Ricoh is not focused on APS-C at the moment, which seems odd to me given the number of available lenses, and existing APS-C shooters using their products.

Yes, developing a marginal upgrade to the K-1 is much easier than a completely redesigned 3-year old APS-C camera.
This will put them on the map at upcoming showroom events and allow ads to go out proving they are still relevant; but this is just not a good move in the long run in my personal opinion.

I don't know how to explain the feeling, but it's not one I enjoy.
UAD Fuji just the announced the XH-1 with the same sensor tech as the K3. Yes the newer chips have contrast detect pixels and faster readout speed, but it is essentially 5/6 years old tech. Meanwhile Sony is (finally) releasing a new BSI chip with the same 3.91 pixel pitch this year for their 150mp MF sensor. If pentax are going to release a new high spec APS-C flagship then they are going to want to put the latest sensor into it. The lack of this key part is why they likely brought the K1ii forward despite the fact is was not the priority.
02-20-2018, 11:42 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
UAD Fuji just the announced the XH-1 with the same sensor tech as the K3. Yes the newer chips have contrast detect pixels and faster readout speed, but it is essentially 5/6 years old tech. Meanwhile Sony is (finally) releasing a new BSI chip with the same 3.91 pixel pitch this year for their 150mp MF sensor. If pentax are going to release a new high spec APS-C flagship then they are going to want to put the latest sensor into it. The lack of this key part is why they likely brought the K1ii forward despite the fact is was not the priority.
Makes sense.
I'll definitely be prodding this forum for information as we get closer to the APS-C successor release.

---------- Post added 02-20-18 at 01:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I chose not to even enter Ricoh's Facebook-based contest for a new K-1. In order for getting a K-1 to make sense, I would have to purchase several DFA lenses; yes, I do have some old manual focus film lenses, but for me, the K-1 would spend much of its time in 'crop mode' - in essence, the K-1 would be a fancy APS camera. The KP is that camera at half the cost ... honestly, I don't know how large that market is.


To me, there is little point to making the queue larger/faster unless they also improve the autofocus. Clearly they could have released a 'KP' with that improved queue, but I believe the complaints would be even louder now. As it is, words from Kenspo should give you hope of getting the camera you want once they get the AF figured out.
Couldn't agree more.

I like the idea of the KP but for what I shoot the K-3ii is still better.

I like a lot of the features in the K-1, but again the K-3ii is still better for what I shoot.

I'm looking forward to seeing what lies ahead.
02-20-2018, 11:52 AM - 2 Likes   #116
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Anybody figure out yet how many angels can dance on the head of the ISO button?
02-20-2018, 12:20 PM - 2 Likes   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Anybody figure out yet how many angels can dance on the head of the ISO button?
No, but the K-1II allegedly supports more dancing angels. It's a hardware change, though, and won't be available as a firmware update for the K-1. Just in case anyone was about to ask...
02-20-2018, 12:23 PM - 1 Like   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
No, but the K-1II allegedly supports more dancing angels. It's a hardware change, though, and won't be available as a firmware update for the K-1. Just in case anyone was about to ask...
But you could program more angels and give them to us for free, thus removing the need to buy a new body just for more angels!?
02-20-2018, 12:34 PM - 1 Like   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by UserAccessDenied Quote
But you could program more angels and give them to us for free, thus removing the need to buy a new body just for more angels!?
I look at it this way. I can ‘inject’ $2,000 a year into the hobby (I.e. spend $2,000 on gear without selling something else), so I bought the DFA*70-200 and I don’t have to sell the KP and all my DA lenses right away. That’s a heavenly deal.
02-20-2018, 01:12 PM - 2 Likes   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I look at it this way. I can ‘inject’ $2,000 a year into the hobby (I.e. spend $2,000 on gear without selling something else), so I bought the DFA*70-200 and I don’t have to sell the KP and all my DA lenses right away. That’s a heavenly deal.
My wife always says I have expensive hobbies...
Between surfing, gardening (which surprisingly adds up...) and photography I would agree that these things can cost a decent amount of money...

But the photography gear pretty much holds it's value when compared to similar high dollar purchases.

The gardening provides a substantial amount of vegetables through the summer and fall.

And the surfing, well, it's helped me get through some of the toughest times in my life thus far; that's just something I'm not giving up as long as I'm physically able...


So between the three I have to split up my "hobby funds".
If I buy a K-3ii successor this year, that means no new surfboard or wetsuit or fins.

The vegetable garden I still argue isn't a hobby... She doesn't see it that way tho
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