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03-02-2018, 04:56 PM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
Nikon does not hold many of the patents to the technology found in the D850 sensor
Although Nikon has a chip manufacturing contract with a manufacturer (Sony), the company has confirmed that the D850 sensor is based entirely on its own design and is not a unit purchased from an external manufacturer.
So, it is legitimate to think about what I have already read is written earlier or could be Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. which results from many other discussions on the net.
So, let us leave this argument to the Nikonists. Nobody has the glass ball? Do you agree like me?

Although the D850 is an excellent camera, the Pentax K1 MkII is undoubtedly my favorite.

Nikon D850 .vs. Pentax K1 MkII


Last edited by maw; 03-02-2018 at 05:05 PM. Reason: add a link
03-02-2018, 05:03 PM - 4 Likes   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Not sure it has to do at all with outlook on personal life.. I think that is a dangerous insinuation on your part...
It has a lot to do with my personal outlook on life. Of course I cannot speak for anyone else and would not attempt to, except to say my outlook must differ.

An example: I used to work in the same office with someone whose outlook on life was that everything must work perfectly 100% of the time. Anything that went wrong she took as a personal affront and was sure the manufacturer caused the issue with the specific intent to cause her grief. Any issue, any delay, any difference between how she thought something should work and how it actually worked was considered reason for screaming, tantrums and nasty phone calls. Note: Any similarity to posters on this forum is I am certain completely coincidental.

My outlook is a bit different. When I turn on my computer and it boots I am amazed. When I take a photograph and it all works I am honestly impressed. When I turn on a light switch I think how wonderful it is that the light came on. When I wake up in the morning I give thanks for another day in which to enjoy the blessings of modern society.

So when I see that Ricoh has bought Pentax and saved the K-mount from extinction I am happy. When they bring out new cameras like the K-3II and the KP, and the K-1 I am overjoyed. When they bring out the K-1II and offer an upgrade to existing users I am amazed. When they produce new lenses like the DA 16-85, DFA *70-200, DFA 24-70, DFA 15-30, DFA 150-450, and DFA 28-105 I am grateful.

So, no I do not understand the constant harping that something be delivered NOW NOW NOW. That is of course my failing in not understanding the others' viewpoint. I keep trying to understand it but so far I have failed. Until that enlightenment happens I will just continue to be happy and grateful that the K-mount is still alive and new things for me to buy are being produced.
03-02-2018, 05:47 PM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
It has a lot to do with my personal outlook on life. Of course I cannot speak for anyone else and would not attempt to, except to say my outlook must differ.

An example: I used to work in the same office with someone whose outlook on life was that everything must work perfectly 100% of the time. Anything that went wrong she took as a personal affront and was sure the manufacturer caused the issue with the specific intent to cause her grief. Any issue, any delay, any difference between how she thought something should work and how it actually worked was considered reason for screaming, tantrums and nasty phone calls. Note: Any similarity to posters on this forum is I am certain completely coincidental.

My outlook is a bit different. When I turn on my computer and it boots I am amazed. When I take a photograph and it all works I am honestly impressed. When I turn on a light switch I think how wonderful it is that the light came on. When I wake up in the morning I give thanks for another day in which to enjoy the blessings of modern society.

So when I see that Ricoh has bought Pentax and saved the K-mount from extinction I am happy. When they bring out new cameras like the K-3II and the KP, and the K-1 I am overjoyed. When they bring out the K-1II and offer an upgrade to existing users I am amazed. When they produce new lenses like the DA 16-85, DFA *70-200, DFA 24-70, DFA 15-30, DFA 150-450, and DFA 28-105 I am grateful.

So, no I do not understand the constant harping that something be delivered NOW NOW NOW. That is of course my failing in not understanding the others' viewpoint. I keep trying to understand it but so far I have failed. Until that enlightenment happens I will just continue to be happy and grateful that the K-mount is still alive and new things for me to buy are being produced.
That's deep, man. And I hear you on the whole. I'm glad to see Pentax still around and feel the tide might be turning in favor of Pentax slowly now... but only recently.

However, if you want to truly understand the criticisms and frustrations heard here over the past few years please go back and re-read my post.

Specifically with the perceived the delays.. it isn't a matter of (most) people wanting now now now as they've been waiting for years... at some point people grow tired of waiting and begin to wonder if their waiting is for nothing and/or if they are being lead down the primrose path by roadmapped lenses, supposed in-the-know member rumors, and vague official rep comments.


I personally took matters into my own hands and found another system... cosystems, since I still use some Pentax, now so I'm fine. But all the thousands I've spent could have went to Ricoh had they had more rapid timelines not consisting of years of quiet 'we are investigating' or 'soon(tm)' rep feedback. I can see others here who have been deep in the Pentax userbase starting to grow weary of the waiting now too.. all completely understandable by me. You can only wait so long.

So yeah.. I think that is why. If you are being assured lenses and vaguely insinuating cameras are being developed what else would you be but upset and/or frustrated when they are seemingly just out of reach? Completely understandable I think. And I think a lot of the back and forth on it could be reduced if we just tried to empathize a little more with one another, instead of putting up the wall and/or naming people trolls and battling their points of views.

Last edited by mee; 03-02-2018 at 05:56 PM.
03-02-2018, 05:56 PM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
.

I personally took matters into my own hands and found another system... cosystems, since I still use some Pentax, now so I'm fine.
Well, glad to see your angst was resolved, I think we'd all love to see now these photos you've taken that our Pentaxes can't.





03-02-2018, 06:00 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, glad to see your angst was resolved, I think we'd all love to see now these photos you've taken that our Pentaxes can't.
Ian, that is an odd statement as I can't recall ever claiming such things. Again it seems the fanclub shields are still raised and halberds at the ready at any perceived threat.. even if it was never intended as one..
03-02-2018, 06:06 PM - 1 Like   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Specifically with the perceived the delays.. it isn't a matter of (most) people wanting now now now as they've been waiting for years... at some point people grow tired of waiting and begin to wonder if their waiting is for nothing and/or if they are being lead down the primrose path by roadmapped lenses, supposed in-the-know member rumors, and vague official rep comments.
But as far as I can tell all of that waiting is caused by people taking rumors, vague comments and things badly translated from another language and spinning it into a frenzy of self sustaining anticipation. That then falls flat when the made up expectations are not met. If Ricoh said "we will release xyz on 123" and then they do not, then that is a missed deadline. But they rarely say anything like that. I don't remember them ever mentioning a K-3II replacement. I don't remember that the "year of the primes" was ever uttered by anyone from Ricoh. They do publish a lens roadmap, something that as far as I know no one else does. Though I could be wrong on that. To me that has always meant things they are working on that might someday be delivered. To some it seems to mean things that should be delivered now. Just a different way of looking at it I suppose.

I believe they said the DFA*50 was due spring of 2018? So if it comes then or a month late or two months late is that reason for the comments I see on this forum?

I think all the weariness of waiting is caused not by Ricoh but rumormongers and people with unrealistic expectations. I do try to understand and if someone is a Pentax user and absolutely has to have a new 85mm f/1.4 lens or they will lose work or professional standing I can see they are concerned. In that case perhaps they need to move to another brand or add another brand. It is sad to see them go but nowhere except in the rumors has Ricoh ever said that lens will be delivered at any particular time.

My outlook is that if I cannot buy it today, it does not exist and there is no reason for me to be worried about it. I like Pentax but if they announced tomorrow that they were closing my current gear would last me 5 years and then I would change to another brand. My pictures are not going to be any different whether the camera is made by Pentax or someone else.
03-02-2018, 06:10 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Ian, that is an odd statement as I can't recall ever claiming such things. Again it seems the fanclub shields are still raised and halberds at the ready at any perceived threat.. even if it was never intended as one..
I think we'd all love to see them.

03-02-2018, 06:31 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
But as far as I can tell all of that waiting is caused by people taking rumors, vague comments and things badly translated from another language and spinning it into a frenzy of self sustaining anticipation. That then falls flat when the made up expectations are not met. If Ricoh said "we will release xyz on 123" and then they do not, then that is a missed deadline. But they rarely say anything like that. I don't remember them ever mentioning a K-3II replacement. I don't remember that the "year of the primes" was ever uttered by anyone from Ricoh. They do publish a lens roadmap, something that as far as I know no one else does. Though I could be wrong on that. To me that has always meant things they are working on that might someday be delivered. To some it seems to mean things that should be delivered now. Just a different way of looking at it I suppose.
Ricoh rarely says anything, which leads people to grasp for other sources of information such as the rumor and hint givers. Otherwise we're left to just sit in the silence and wait for something that may or may not happen... I think you are an extremely patient person and perhaps have already got your 'needs' met. Maybe that is part of the PoV clashes?


QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I believe they said the DFA*50 was due spring of 2018? So if it comes then or a month late or two months late is that reason for the comments I see on this forum?
Well.. originally PF said 'coming soon' at last years CP+: HD Pentax D FA? 50mm F1.4 Coming Soon - Pentax Announcements | PentaxForums.com but with no actual date provided 2017 Pentax Lens Roadmaps - CP+ 2017 | PentaxForums.com

'Soon' to you, me, steve, bob, joan, and fred could all be different.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think all the weariness of waiting is caused not by Ricoh but rumormongers and people with unrealistic expectations. I do try to understand and if someone is a Pentax user and absolutely has to have a new 85mm f/1.4 lens or they will lose work or professional standing I can see they are concerned. In that case perhaps they need to move to another brand or add another brand. It is sad to see them go but nowhere except in the rumors has Ricoh ever said that lens will be delivered at any particular time.

My outlook is that if I cannot buy it today, it does not exist and there is no reason for me to be worried about it. I like Pentax but if they announced tomorrow that they were closing my current gear would last me 5 years and then I would change to another brand. My pictures are not going to be any different whether the camera is made by Pentax or someone else.
I'm not sure we really need a reason to want a product though. How many people buy new cars, shoes, clothes, TVs, phones, or any other physical product simply because they want something new and fresh? It is a consumer market and cameras are a part of that, even if one is using the product commercially to make their own product.

If we upgrade or buy a new product only when it makes business sense, then a lot of companies are going to be in trouble!

I'm with you though that if one cannot buy it today it doesn't exist. I've actually said the same thing on this forum in the past. But only have being 'burned' by waiting long enough...

I suspect at least some here who have commented with a melancholy view, over Ricoh's releases over the past few years, could feel the same.

Again to understand it means putting on someone elses shoes... to get away from the fact that your camera system satisfies your needs for the next 5 years. What if this was year 6 and you were looking for an upgrade, Ricoh was roadmapping upgrades, saying 'soon(tm)' and responding to interviews of 'looking into' product updates... all of which had you hanging on for another year.... and another year after that.... and maybe another year after those two... with still nothing to show for your patience? I think if we're honest most all would sing a different tune.

The people complaining generally seem to want to stay with the brand, they've loved the brand for years, they've helped the brand for years (buying into it and discussing the merits with others), but now the brand isn't returning the favor (in their minds).. its uhmming and ahhing with nothing (yet) to show for it.

03-02-2018, 06:32 PM - 1 Like   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think we'd all love to see them.
The halberd and the shield? you just showed me yours... over the past year you've repeatedly shown me, personally, yours. Your halberd is quite sharp and pointy. I hope one day you can lay it down and just be friendly..
03-02-2018, 06:41 PM - 1 Like   #295
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Hi folks, might be time to take a few deep breaths, and re-read the posts you are going to submit before things get out of hand. Thanks.
03-02-2018, 06:47 PM - 2 Likes   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The people complaining generally seem to want to stay with the brand, they've loved the brand for years, they've helped the brand for years (buying into it and discussing the merits with others), but now the brand isn't returning the favor (in their minds).. its uhmming and ahhing with nothing (yet) to show for it.
Agree. Most anyway. But it also seems sometimes like they think this is football and they're selected team has to 'win'. I think Ricoh is trying to survive not win and that upsets some of course. I would not like it if my favorite team said " we are not trying to win, just stay around and keep selling tickets. I just don't view camera companies as a team to root for.
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Ricoh rarely says anything, which leads people to grasp for other sources of information such as the rumor and hint givers. Otherwise we're left to just sit in the silence and wait for something that may or may not happen... I think you are an extremely patient person and perhaps have already got your 'needs' met. Maybe that is part of the PoV clashes?
Could be. And that is what makes Pentax 'right' for me. What they have produced works for my style. If it did not, I would not be posting here complaining, I would just buy something else and move on. It's just a camera.
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
'Soon' to you, me, steve, bob, joan, and fred could all be different.
Very true, time and expectations are viewed differently.

If Pentax released for sale tomorrow all of the things people on this forum profess to need / want it would not matter greatly to me as I could not afford most of them anyway. Or at least not justify the expense. My photo hobby is entirely supported by sales, I don't buy anything that does not justify the cost, at least in my mind.

Bottom line I just do not understand why people would spend so much time here complaining that they want something that is readily available someplace else. How many posts have we seen with people gnashing their teeth that Pentax does not do video? Or does not have a D500 type body? Why complain? Why not just buy a camera that does good video? Or a D500? I guess that is what bothers me the most, not understanding that viewpoint. If something bothers me I fix it. If that means a new job, a new house, or new camera brand I don't complain I just move on. I suppose based on experience here I am weird.

---------- Post added 03-02-18 at 05:48 PM ----------

@pjv if that is for me, my apologies. I thought we were having a friendly discussion. If not I am happy to shut up.
03-02-2018, 06:55 PM - 1 Like   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
@pjv if that is for me, my apologies. I thought we were having a friendly discussion. If not I am happy to shut up.
No jatrax, not singling anybody out, just hoping to prevent a very negative tone starting to creep in to some of the posts. As long as it all remains respectful, it is fine.
03-02-2018, 07:14 PM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Agree. Most anyway. But it also seems sometimes like they think this is football and they're selected team has to 'win'. I think Ricoh is trying to survive not win and that upsets some of course. I would not like it if my favorite team said " we are not trying to win, just stay around and keep selling tickets. I just don't view camera companies as a team to root for.
Could be. And that is what makes Pentax 'right' for me. What they have produced works for my style. If it did not, I would not be posting here complaining, I would just buy something else and move on. It's just a camera.

Very true, time and expectations are viewed differently.

If Pentax released for sale tomorrow all of the things people on this forum profess to need / want it would not matter greatly to me as I could not afford most of them anyway. Or at least not justify the expense. My photo hobby is entirely supported by sales, I don't buy anything that does not justify the cost, at least in my mind.

Bottom line I just do not understand why people would spend so much time here complaining that they want something that is readily available someplace else. How many posts have we seen with people gnashing their teeth that Pentax does not do video? Or does not have a D500 type body? Why complain? Why not just buy a camera that does good video? Or a D500? I guess that is what bothers me the most, not understanding that viewpoint. If something bothers me I fix it. If that means a new job, a new house, or new camera brand I don't complain I just move on. I suppose based on experience here I am weird.



I think our views are actually rather similar in a lot of aspects. I agree with all you say.. except maybe for not understanding the 'other side.' But I understand that 'side' because I've been there. And am only trying to maybe shed a little light on the complaints.

Right here:
QuoteOriginally posted by mee:
The people complaining generally seem to want to stay with the brand, they've loved the brand for years, they've helped the brand for years (buying into it and discussing the merits with others), but now the brand isn't returning the favor (in their minds).. its uhmming and ahhing with nothing (yet) to show for it.
People don't want change. People (generally) hate change.. they fight it tooth and nail. 5 years ago the AF system was comparable with most/all brands.. video could be considered decent. Today, maybe not so much as other brands have spent a lot of resources in each. I think you're right that Pentax is in a different mindset (mainly riding out the tide in their own maybe changing niche) and our expectations have to be aligned with the situation. "We're" shoving square pegs at the round hole... the pegs were round at one point.. but the economy gave us square ones along the way but some of us don't want to change with the new reality of things.

And while trying to 'hold on', the lack of news causes minds to wonder.. and to get frustrated..

Acutally, the thought I've had in the back of my mind for awhile now is... Ricoh/Pentax seem to be spending a lot of resources on these new D-FAs... not just slapping something together and throwing it into the market, but making sure it is right in their view. They did the same thing with the delays on the * 70-200.. I remember that was almost launched, then last minute delayed as well for them to fix things.. with this in mind, it seems Pentax is really gunning to have the DSLR stills shooting forte. Long haul. If that is true maybe their slowness isn't slow to them..

So, maybe in 5 -10 years, if the market is slanted towards mirrorless systems, Pentax could be the leading DSLR brand? Not that I think CaNikon are giving it up completely.. but they seem more ...susceptible?... to consumer trendiness (and thus could shift more mirrorless). Highly hypothetical, granted, but I could see a possibility of Pentax riding out the current storms and ending up as the 1 or 2 market DSLR brand many years down the road if they can stay afloat. No one here knows what the market will look like in even 5 years or if that is economically feasible. However, yes it is an odd thought I've had.. since I see no other reason why a company would develop large, high resolution, DSLR designed-for lenses... but only if they planned/hoped on sticking around for years in that particular market.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote


@pjv if that is for me, my apologies. I thought we were having a friendly discussion. If not I am happy to shut up.
Same here.. But I don't think that was directed at either of us.. our convo has been respectful and polite.
03-02-2018, 07:26 PM   #299
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Instead of the Pentax K3 III the new Ricoh GR III is announced, Santa Claus has arrived. Ricoh does things big
03-02-2018, 09:34 PM   #300
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Has this: RICOH-PressKit-EN had any airplay around the forums? I can't find if it has but let me know if you've seen it elsewhere and I'll flick it to the bin.

Have to say the GR III stuff is interesting too, as maw mentioned above: Pentax Rumors | Pentax + Ricoh news and more

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