Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-22-2018, 03:53 AM - 1 Like   #61
Pentaxian
robjmitchell's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne Aus
Posts: 1,446
QuoteOriginally posted by Igor123 Quote
I'm "cautiously positive" to the improvements if they do what is claimed, but can someone explain how a couple of these impovements are possible; the iso-improvement and colors...don't we have the same sensor in mk1 and 2, and thus the same raw data? So what is done is better in-camera processing resulting in better jpegs (or better cooked raws? could save some work in pp even if so..), or am I missing something basic here?

Or to rephrase, is there anything that the new hardware can do regarding iso and color, that can't be done in pp? (and of so, what does it do and how?)
Its speculation how it functions, but the Accelerator is correcting the noisy pixels at the base ISO before it reaches the processor. Normal NR just smears the noise between pixels to try and hide it which destroys your detail. There is a stop of difference between the K3 and Kp with the same sensors, so the presumption is that the K1ii will see the same benefit. The low res images look at least 2 stops better than my K3 so I have no reason to doubt the benefits.

02-22-2018, 03:59 AM - 9 Likes   #62
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 18,409
I don't understand the angst in these threads. Pentax is releasing an upgraded version of the K-1. It will offer better low light/high iso images and more options with pixel shift. It will also have an extra 'I' next to the first 'I' on the K-1. Maybe it will have some improved auto focus algorithms on tracking.

In addition, Pentax will upgrade the cameras of those who already own K-1s (for a fee).

If these improvements don't do anything for you then that's fine. You've saved quite a bit of money. On the other hand, you can't really knock people who are, say, excited by better high iso on a camera that is already good at it and even more pleased that they can upgrade their current camera, rather than selling it and purchasing new.

Will I upgrade? I'm not honestly sure. I do shoot a lot of pixel shift and it isn't unusual that I'm shooting my kid's activities at iso 6400. Even if I don't upgrade, I have no reason to attack the improvements in the updated camera. Just because a piece of gear isn't something that fits my style of shooting doesn't mean that Pentax shouldn't release it. Unfortunately, it feels as though a lot of folks approach these discussions thinking that Pentax should design a camera specifically for them, leaving off the features they don't want/need and including the things they do and pricing it where they want. Only then, will Pentax be successful...

With fans like these, who needs enemies?

Last edited by Rondec; 02-22-2018 at 10:24 AM.
02-22-2018, 04:17 AM   #63
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
savoche's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lowlands of Norway
Posts: 11,671
QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
The 645z is pretty nifty on the low light front
...and the 645Z Mk II will be even niftier

(No, I have no idea of what, if, or when Ricoh plans anything new!)
02-22-2018, 04:22 AM   #64
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,269
QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
Its speculation how it functions, but the Accelerator is correcting the noisy pixels at the base ISO before it reaches the processor. Normal NR just smears the noise between pixels to try and hide it which destroys your detail.
Well, there isn't noise between pixels, Rob, there are only pixels and their values, what's this thing do differently, do you guess?

Conventional noise reduction involves neighbour sampling ... you see one green pixel surrounded by red pixels, so you replace it with a red pixel also. It's lossy.

02-22-2018, 04:31 AM - 1 Like   #65
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
savoche's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lowlands of Norway
Posts: 11,671
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Unfortunately, it feels as though a lot of folks approach these discussions thinking that Pentax should design a camera specifically for them, leaving off the features they don't want/need and including the things they do and pricing it where they want.
I think you are right. Unfortunately.
02-22-2018, 04:34 AM   #66
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
redpit's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Athens
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 984
QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Good news, now I hope my local Lithuanian Pentax represents will provide it too...
It will be done centrally for Europe. For Greece I also will have to be sent in France or Germany most probably
02-22-2018, 04:35 AM - 1 Like   #67
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 18,409
I guess I would add that if Pentax released an A9 killer camera with 20 frames per second 4K video and priced it at 3500 dollars, I would both be excited (to see what others could do with such a beast) and completely uninterested (not for me). I know they won't released such a camera, but I'm still glad when new products come out for K mount -- whether or not they are "revolutionary."
02-22-2018, 04:43 AM   #68
Pentaxian
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 920
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't understand the angst in these threads. Pentax is releasing an upgraded version of the K-1. It will offer better low light/high iso images and more options with pixel shift. It will also have an extra 'I' next to the first 'I' on the K-1. Maybe it will have some improved auto focus algorithms on tracking.

In addition, Pentax will upgrade the cameras of those who already own K-1s.

If these improvements don't do anything for you then that's fine. You've saved quite a bit of money. On the other hand, you can't really knock people who are, say, excited by better high iso on a camera that is already good at it and even more pleased that they can upgrade their current camera, rather than selling it and purchasing new.

Will I upgrade? I'm not honestly sure. I do shoot a lot of pixel shift and it isn't unusual that I'm shooting my kid's activities at iso 6400. Even if I don't upgrade, I have no reason to attack the improvements in the updated camera. Just because a piece of gear isn't something that fits my style of shooting doesn't mean that Pentax shouldn't release it. Unfortunately, it feels as though a lot of folks approach these discussions thinking that Pentax should design a camera specifically for them, leaving off the features they don't want/need and including the things they do and pricing it where they want. Only then, will Pentax be successful...

With fans like these, who needs enemies?
There is no way to please everybody, regardless of the manufacturer. And it may look like people is negative, but for some, it is not called negativity, but the real experience from the past. I gave the example between K3 and K3 II at the only 2 things I was interested at that time: ISO and af. I skipped K3 as an upgrade from K-5 II and jumped straight to K-3 II because of the so called improvements in af algorithms and ISO which Ricoh said that there were added to K-3 II.

You seems to be into landscapes and because of that you tend to look with different eyes at K1 Mark II which was targeted from the beginning at landscape photographers, and tend to "close your eyes" at things like af, burst rate, 4k video, buffer capacity, SD writing speed, tethered transfer... These would have been features which many people would expect to be improved in a Mark II version of K1 (even if just slightly). So yes, a lot of people are somehow disappointed in the K1 Mark II specs, even in Canon, Sony, Fuji, Olympus and Nikon boats.

02-22-2018, 04:43 AM - 1 Like   #69
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 143
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, there isn't noise between pixels, Rob, there are only pixels and their values, what's this thing do differently, do you guess?

Conventional noise reduction involves neighbour sampling ... you see one green pixel surrounded by red pixels, so you replace it with a red pixel also. It's lossy.
Yes, my thoughts as well...for me, even if it's "just" a really smart NR algo that is better than most commercial ones, baked in, "cooking" the raws but on a very restrictive scale resulting in what appears to be better high-iso raws, that could still be a good feature, but still not something requiring hardware (other than for faster processing).

The 14-bit data should be able to house enough DR (and a fair bit of noise) without giving the internal processor any advantage in acting on the "unprocessed" raw data ....so I'm not sure what's left that it can do...perhaps things like sensor temperature can be incorporated into the NR to give a superior result compared to traditional NR?...or some sneaky blackframe-ish subtraction or similar based on previous images or knowledge of some kind of noise bias of individual pixels over time or some other tricks like that? I guess it's their secret sauce =), but if anyone knows and can "prove" that it's not just good built-in PP, I'd be all the happier =)

(But I guess it will be easier to compare this time; electronics and other vary quite a bit between the k3 and kp, so attributing all noise improvements to the accelerator may be hard to prove, but since they even offer an upgrade this time without a sensor change, I guess mk1+ software pp and mk2 would be easier and more reliable)
02-22-2018, 04:46 AM   #70
Pentaxian
Belnan's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 510
Well Im interested in seeing a side by side comparison between the K-1 no mark and K-1 mark II. The k-1 already seems to be pretty good so Ill be surprised if there is any meaningful improvement in IQ.
02-22-2018, 04:47 AM - 1 Like   #71
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rome, Italy
Posts: 350
"As expected, the accelerator unit incorporated into the PENTAX K-1 Mark II not only helped achieve the super-high top sensitivity of ISO 819200 by employing the combination of the PRIME IV imaging engine and the 35mm full-frame sensor, but also greatly improved image quality at normal sensitivity ranges. "

"The AF system featuring a new algorithm assures high-precision focusing even with moving subjects. "

Shut up and take my money!!!

Last edited by Andrea K; 02-22-2018 at 04:57 AM.
02-22-2018, 04:53 AM   #72
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,269
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
d tend to "close your eyes" at things like af, burst rate, 4k video, buffer capacity, SD writing speed, tethered transfer... These would have been features which many people would expect to be improved in a Mark II version of K1
With all due respect, Dan, I don't think many Pentaxians can\would pay $2000 for a Pentax equivalent of the APS-C Nikon D500 or $4500 for a Pentax equivalent of the FF Sony A9, I reckon you're wrong about that.

You didn't, for example. You're super serious about your wildlife pictures but you went for a cheap Canon 6D when you jumped brands, right, and have ended up with a 5D instead of a 1Dx?

Last edited by clackers; 02-22-2018 at 05:03 AM.
02-22-2018, 04:58 AM - 1 Like   #73
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,040
QuoteOriginally posted by Andrea K Quote
Shut up and take my money!!!
Ok, I will. Just send it to me.
02-22-2018, 04:59 AM   #74
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,900
While Pentax is telling us how they're planning to sell the K-1 for a longer period, we should expect a new sensor (4K, burst speed), new processor (buffer, SD writing speed, USB) and new AF system? In other words, a completely new camera - the exact opposite of what Pentax is telling us?
02-22-2018, 05:02 AM - 1 Like   #75
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Genf
Posts: 309
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
With all due respect, Dan, I don't think many Pentaxians would pay $2000 for a Pentax equivalent of the APS-C Nikon D500 or $4500 for a Pentax equivalent of the FF Sony A9, I reckon you're wrong about that.

You didn't, for example, you're super serious about your pictures but you went for a cheap Canon 6D when you jumped brands, right, and have ended up with a 5D instead of a 1Dx?
I doubt as well.
People secretely hope Pentax will deliver a D500 like APSC for half the price, which is unrealistic. Also, there is no need to develop something that replicates an existing product in same segment, it has to be and will be different.
At last a top APSC would eat in just released K1 II plate...
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
blurb, cameras, canon, chip, ff, future, ii, images, impressions, k-1, k1, lens, line, mark, mark ii, mkii, nikon, pentax, pentax mkii, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, pm, post, price, ricoh, sensor, site
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ricoh presentation on the Theta at the IVRPA conference Rnovo Pentax News and Rumors 4 07-02-2017 02:45 PM
Pentax K3 ii vs Canon 5D mark ii mogge Welcomes and Introductions 49 03-27-2016 02:39 AM
Official Betting Pool for the Pentaxforums.com million post mark! jct us101 General Talk 4 04-07-2010 07:31 PM
Official samples & official web sites nosnoop Pentax News and Rumors 29 01-25-2008 06:12 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:43 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top