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02-23-2018, 01:34 AM   #151
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Seems that this subforum has even got an attention of Tony Northrup.

EDIT: The general takeaway is “field testing will show how effective the upgrades are”. I couln't agree more.


Last edited by Tranzistors; 02-23-2018 at 02:35 AM.
02-23-2018, 02:15 AM   #152
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His evaluation is pretty accurate,he didnt know the "kit lens" was a 105mm though and his evaluation of it was incorrect.
02-23-2018, 03:01 AM - 1 Like   #153
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No, I think Tony misses the point.
I have to say I don't know for sure, but IIRC pixelshift uses electronic shutter and does not require the fps-addition-time for the sequence.
02-23-2018, 03:36 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
Ok, yeah, but the cost ain't exactly chump change. But then of course you get a new logo (whoopee!)
To put it in perspective, it is less than the cost of an entry level camera. It doesn't mean you should do it, although I don't think the upgrade deal lasts forever. At the same time, if you think it adds real benefits, it makes a whole lot of sense.

(Photography can be a pretty expensive hobby, but not more so than a lot of other hobbies out there)...

02-23-2018, 03:38 AM - 1 Like   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by Craig66 Quote
I was originally waiting for this K1-ll to be released before i was going to go FF. But i couldn't resist 20% off the K1 late last year. Plus i needed a good chrissy present for myself

Now the MK-ll is out. I'm not sorry I went with the MK1. For a great price. I'm very happy with what it offer's.

I will be happy to stick with my K1 and K3-ll for the foreseeable future.
Was quite hard to resist that 20% deal.... it ran again leading up to valentines day as well.
02-23-2018, 03:43 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I've always thought you a cool guy, Dan, an excellent photographer and very logical in a discussion. No question about any of that.
Thank you for your kind words. I know that being a little more direct make some pentaxians think that I'm attacking Pentax. I'm not. I just see things a little different than the die hard Pentaxians (luckily they are just a few) and having the posibility to shoot with a lot of cameras from different brands and also shooting often among some Pentaxians, I kind of formed an opinion about what Pentaxians want (at least the ones in my circle of friends which are not that much interested in wildlife). A lot of the ones that I often talk to don't say on forums/facebook, etc. what they think because if they say what they would like/want to see in a new camera, there must be someone who will start a debate arguing about anything.


QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Here's where I think you've forgotten what these mid-cycle version II things are.

The cameras aren't in continuous production. Pentax is a small company, and it just does a run, then the inventory reduces until B&H and Amazon or whatever can't source them from warehouses anymore and they're effectively a discontinued product.

A second run of the same model allows some tinkering, but that's all, because they don't want to pay for R&D again for more like four years than two.

I'm not sure people flocked to sell their K-3s and camped outside camera stores in queues to get the K3-II. It's just that you couldn't buy the old one anymore.

The silver releases have even less thinking involved.

They are possibly using this image processor at a good price because it'll be a mature product, probably the same one in the Nikon D810 - Image Signal Processor (Milbeaut®) | Socionext Inc. Nikon calls it Expeed, Pentax calls it Prime.

Note that you can't just put USB3 into it, or up its clock speed, or change its HD video processor to 4k. These things are just not on that board.

In two years time, the image processors used by say the current top of the line Nikon lines will have come down in price, and Pentax can make an offer for them. For various reasons, I don't think the real successor to the K-1 will be as affordable, so I do think we owners are quite lucky as to how it all came together.
I know it's a small company and that Ricoh do not pump money into Pentax and Pentax is mostly self-financing, but their decissions are weird when comes to releases. The 28-105mm f/3.5-5.6 lens comes to my mind regarding weird decisions. Why not a 24-105mm istead of 28-105mm? Why not an f4 aperture instead of a variable one? And now K1 Mark II... Look at what I said yesterday regarding reviewers. Tony Northrup already created a video and all I see is "weird release", "I don't think ISO will be...", "I don't think dynamic pixel shift will be...", "Pentax is limitted in lenses", "autofocus is the same and is shocking", etc. And more will follow Tony Northrup and all these reviews (small talk to be more precise) will affect Pentax image and all the new potential clients will further think based on what they read/see on youtube is that Pentax is falling behind. That's why I see K1 Mark II as an attempt of Ricoh to bring a little more money into the company (K1 is not that much popular anymore as it was a year ago), but they forgot to take into consideration the media and the publicity around this release.

---------- Post added 02-23-18 at 10:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I don't believe the 'accelerator' is a facelift'. We don't understand it yet - apparently KP didn't get as much exposure as it should have - but it definitely is not a facelift!

I don't believe dynamic pixel shift is a facelift. The Mark ii was out for just a few hours, and at another discussion forum an Olympus user was saying how much he hoped the next iteration of Olympus's flagship has dynamic pixel shift also.
It is not innovation either. It's an improvement on something they already had. Facelifts are about improving things and resolving problems of the prior model, at least in my opinion. Of course that photographers from other boats want some features that Pentax has. It's the same here, where people are asking either for eye af, either for focus stalking, either for tracking af, video, etc. Each system has some features known for how nice they are.

---------- Post added 02-23-18 at 10:45 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
Those dual pixels for contast af increase noise. They are bad for anyone who is not interested in video. Canon has a significant presence in the video market, so for them it brings more benefits than cost. Pentax on the other hand would loose IQ hurting the niche they specialize in.
Prior to the introduction of dual pixel af, Canon DSLRs relied on contrast-detect technology. Dual pixel af is different. Each pixel on the sensor’s surface is split into two individual photodiodes – one left and one right. Each of these can be read separately allowing faster phase-detection autofocus while simultaneously being used for image capture.
02-23-2018, 03:50 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
No, I think Tony misses the point.
I have to say I don't know for sure, but IIRC pixelshift uses electronic shutter and does not require the fps-addition-time for the sequence.
It's still limited by the sensor read-out rate.

The problem is, we don't know how it works - he's just making up a scenario in which it supposedly wouldn't.
What we know is that it's a Pixel Shift mode that doesn't require a tripod. Unlike Tony N, we'll try to find ways to use that.

02-23-2018, 04:29 AM - 2 Likes   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
The 28-105mm f/3.5-5.6 lens comes to my mind regarding weird decisions. Why not a 24-105mm istead of 28-105mm? Why not an f4 aperture instead of a variable one?
I don't think this is weird at all. It's about cost, time (and therefore cost again) and target market. A 24-105 f/4 lens would be bigger, heavier and more expensive compared with the existing lens (it's not a case of 'why not f/4' etc, there are significant knockons). I imagine it was quicker and easier for Pentax to create a great 28 to 105 than a great 24 to 105.

The 28 to 105 launched alongside the premium zoom, so I imagine there may have been marketing concerns and an attempt to 'up sell' to the f/2.8.

Of course I think a 24 to 105 makes a lot of sense now and if Pentax had the resources the K-1 MkII would have been a good time to introduce one - alongside a 70-200 f/4 lens (or similar).
02-23-2018, 04:57 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
I don't think this is weird at all. It's about cost, time (and therefore cost again) and target market. A 24-105 f/4 lens would be bigger, heavier and more expensive compared with the existing lens (it's not a case of 'why not f/4' etc, there are significant knockons). I imagine it was quicker and easier for Pentax to create a great 28 to 105 than a great 24 to 105.

The 28 to 105 launched alongside the premium zoom, so I imagine there may have been marketing concerns and an attempt to 'up sell' to the f/2.8.

Of course I think a 24 to 105 makes a lot of sense now and if Pentax had the resources the K-1 MkII would have been a good time to introduce one - alongside a 70-200 f/4 lens (or similar).
I agree about the 28-105, but I think a more likely small zoom would be a 24-50/4, which wouldn't compete with the existing 28-105/3.5-5.6 or the 24-70/2.8. I have an A-series 24-50/4 that's a delightful and useful little lens, although it was later made into a slightly larger F-series, which would be more like a modern version, size-wise.
02-23-2018, 05:03 AM - 2 Likes   #160
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The Canon 24-105 f/4 is a $1100 lens. So is the Nikon 24-120. Sony's is $1400. Even the Sigma is $900.
The Pentax? Less than $500. It's an affordable and surprisingly good general-purpose zoom for the K-1. Was making it weird, or rather... necessary?
02-23-2018, 05:13 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's still limited by the sensor read-out rate.

The problem is, we don't know how it works - he's just making up a scenario in which it supposedly wouldn't.
What we know is that it's a Pixel Shift mode that doesn't require a tripod. Unlike Tony N, we'll try to find ways to use that.
I've only just started using ES. If you can use exposure bracketing, HDR or burst mode with it, we might have a better idea of its timing, but I haven't tried anything other than long-FL tripod-mounted shots, and I don't have any information on the ways ES can be used.
02-23-2018, 05:20 AM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I agree about the 28-105, but I think a more likely small zoom would be a 24-50/4, which wouldn't compete with the existing 28-105/3.5-5.6 or the 24-70/2.8. I have an A-series 24-50/4 that's a delightful and useful little lens, although it was later made into a slightly larger F-series, which would be more like a modern version, size-wise.
I think a lot depends on where Pentax believes its niche in the market lies:
- If it thinks it can be profitable by being different to the larger players then a 24-50 f/4 could make sense, assuming the compromise of reduced reach (and I would argue it is a compromise) is necessary for significant gains: prime like image quality, super compact size, excellent close focusing to name a few examples. A kind of flexi-prime concept not dissimilar to the existing ltd zoom.

- If however a significant proportion of Pentax customer's 'cross-shop' then it needs to be competitive with the larger players. So, the lack of a premium 24-105 is a definite lack.

- There could be room for both approaches, but I don't think Pentax has the resources to do both well.
02-23-2018, 05:21 AM - 1 Like   #163
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Press Kit

Pentax Germany has issued an extensive "press kit" with lots of pictures and information. On the last page of the kit there is a link to a slick K-1II data sheet in pdf. RICOH-PressKit-DE
02-23-2018, 05:23 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I've only just started using ES. If you can use exposure bracketing, HDR or burst mode with it, we might have a better idea of its timing, but I haven't tried anything other than long-FL tripod-mounted shots, and I don't have any information on the ways ES can be used.
PS uses ES for taking four exposures as quickly as possible, so there you have the timing.
02-23-2018, 05:25 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The Canon 24-105 f/4 is a $1100 lens. So is the Nikon 24-120. Sony's is $1400. Even the Sigma is $900.
The Pentax? Less than $500. It's an affordable and surprisingly good general-purpose zoom for the K-1. Was making it weird, or rather... necessary?
Exactly, at the time the K-1 launched it had to have the 28-105 lens

A 24 zoom would certainly make sense now though.

Getting slightly back on the track, the K-1 II would actually be a good marketing opportunity for such a lens. Both lenses can easily exist alongside each other differentiated by price.
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