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02-23-2018, 05:29 AM   #166
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I'm sure they would've liked to make it a 24-105, but they couldn't - while keeping the low price tag and high image quality.

02-23-2018, 05:41 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
I don't think this is weird at all. It's about cost, time (and therefore cost again) and target market. A 24-105 f/4 lens would be bigger, heavier and more expensive compared with the existing lens (it's not a case of 'why not f/4' etc, there are significant knockons). I imagine it was quicker and easier for Pentax to create a great 28 to 105 than a great 24 to 105.

The 28 to 105 launched alongside the premium zoom, so I imagine there may have been marketing concerns and an attempt to 'up sell' to the f/2.8.

Of course I think a 24 to 105 makes a lot of sense now and if Pentax had the resources the K-1 MkII would have been a good time to introduce one - alongside a 70-200 f/4 lens (or similar).
To me it's weird. Why? Because all the others went for 24mm on the wide focal lenght instead of 28. And if an f4 lens would have been to big and expensive, then why don't they went to a 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 lens? Canon offers this lens also, has 5 stars on B&H and it's light and cheap compared to the f4 lens. The Nikon 24-120 is not that heavy at 710g, it's f4 and it covers also 24-28mm and 105-120mm. I understand the concept of not following the crowd, but sometimes following the crowd is not that bad.

But, it's a topic about K1 Mark II so I will not further go off topic by discussing about lenses. Luckily, CP+ will soon come and the reviewers (Tony Northrup and all the cancan media) will have something else to review instead of bringing back all the negative comments about K1 Mark II.
02-23-2018, 06:22 AM - 1 Like   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Pentax Germany has issued an extensive "press kit" with lots of pictures and information. On the last page of the kit there is a link to a slick K-1II data sheet in pdf. RICOH-PressKit-DE
That's very nice - if I can take pictures like that, I'll definitely upgrade - I wonder if it's locally produced or whether there's an english version for the english speaking world - it's certainly the type of document they should be producing - like the sort of brochure they used to make for cameras back in the last century
02-23-2018, 06:35 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
PS uses ES for taking four exposures as quickly as possible, so there you have the timing.
Surprising that nobody seems to have attempted it, then. Maybe they have, but I think I'll just wait and see how well PSii works.

02-23-2018, 06:52 AM - 1 Like   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
To put it in perspective, it is less than the cost of an entry level camera. It doesn't mean you should do it, although I don't think the upgrade deal lasts forever. At the same time, if you think it adds real benefits, it makes a whole lot of sense.

(Photography can be a pretty expensive hobby, but not more so than a lot of other hobbies out there)...
A guy I know just dropped $5k on a jointer.
02-23-2018, 08:14 AM - 1 Like   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Thank you for your kind words. I know that being a little more direct make some pentaxians think that I'm attacking Pentax. I'm not. I just see things a little different than the die hard Pentaxians (luckily they are just a few) and having the posibility to shoot with a lot of cameras from different brands and also shooting often among some Pentaxians, I kind of formed an opinion about what Pentaxians want (at least the ones in my circle of friends which are not that much interested in wildlife). A lot of the ones that I often talk to don't say on forums/facebook, etc. what they think because if they say what they would like/want to see in a new camera, there must be someone who will start a debate arguing about anything.




I know it's a small company and that Ricoh do not pump money into Pentax and Pentax is mostly self-financing, but their decissions are weird when comes to releases. The 28-105mm f/3.5-5.6 lens comes to my mind regarding weird decisions. Why not a 24-105mm istead of 28-105mm? Why not an f4 aperture instead of a variable one? And now K1 Mark II... Look at what I said yesterday regarding reviewers. Tony Northrup already created a video and all I see is "weird release", "I don't think ISO will be...", "I don't think dynamic pixel shift will be...", "Pentax is limitted in lenses", "autofocus is the same and is shocking", etc. And more will follow Tony Northrup and all these reviews (small talk to be more precise) will affect Pentax image and all the new potential clients will further think based on what they read/see on youtube is that Pentax is falling behind. That's why I see K1 Mark II as an attempt of Ricoh to bring a little more money into the company (K1 is not that much popular anymore as it was a year ago), but they forgot to take into consideration the media and the publicity around this release.

---------- Post added 02-23-18 at 10:43 AM ----------



It is not innovation either. It's an improvement on something they already had. Facelifts are about improving things and resolving problems of the prior model, at least in my opinion. Of course that photographers from other boats want some features that Pentax has. It's the same here, where people are asking either for eye af, either for focus stalking, either for tracking af, video, etc. Each system has some features known for how nice they are.

---------- Post added 02-23-18 at 10:45 AM ----------



Prior to the introduction of dual pixel af, Canon DSLRs relied on contrast-detect technology. Dual pixel af is different. Each pixel on the sensor’s surface is split into two individual photodiodes – one left and one right. Each of these can be read separately allowing faster phase-detection autofocus while simultaneously being used for image capture.
Well said Dan.
For those who always disagree with a constructive criticism, look what Sony or Fuji did. I purchased XT-1 few years back and couldn't stand its AF, so I sold it, then Fuji came out with XT-2 with a brand new AF system. Since then my K3ii isn't anymore use for my wildlife. Xt2 with 100-400 combo is a killer. Now, what Pentax has done from K5 to K3ii.adding a pixel shift, GPS, maybe slightly better AF.. This is not good enough to attract potential new customers and as many folks have said on this forum, people either wait for the next round of K1 series or buy a used one. How can you financially generate revenue for Ricoh by doing this?! Unfortunately, Ricoh doesn't listen to the photographer's need, they create things they think a photographer would want. Pixel shift for instance, ok great, but even today no software vendor support for that. Besides, it's almost useless for the majority of landscape work where there is almost always slight movement of leaves etc. 36mp is already plenty darn good ( even though the sensor is the same D810E from 2012), give me a better buffer, better AF, and more modern native FF lenses. Sony changed almost everything people asked for in A7Riii from A7Rii. I am sorry this may upset few folks here, but this is why Pentax market is getting smaller and smaller.

Last edited by Pentax_WA; 02-23-2018 at 08:43 AM.
02-23-2018, 08:47 AM - 4 Likes   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax_WA Quote
Well said Dan.
For those who always disagree with a constructive criticism, look what Sony or Fuji did. I purchased XT-1 few years back and couldn't stand its AF, so I sold it, then fuji came out with XT-2 with a brand new AF system. Since then my K3ii isn't any more use for my wildlife. Xt2 with 100-400 combo is a killer. Now what pentax has done from K5 to K3ii.adding a pixel shift, GPS, may be slightly better AF.. This is not good enough to attract potential new customers and as I read betwene the lines here, people either wait for a next round of K1 series or buy a used one. How can you financially generate revenue for Ricoh by doing this?! Unfortunately, Ricoh doesn't listen to the photographer's need, they create things they think a photographer would want. Pixel shift for instance, ok great, but even today no softwate vendor supoorts that. 36mp already plenty, give me a better buffer, better AF and more modern native lenses. Sony changed almost everything people asked for in A7Riii from A7Rii. Unfortunately, here die hard fan boys only justify Pentax's direction without realizing you as a photographer is the one who decides what features you need for your work not the company and if they don't listen to their consumers, their market becomes smaller and smaller.
I am not sure they don't listen to their customers. Their customers have a variety of needs that include image quality, AF, weather sealing, etc. I think they have a comparative advantage in certain areas and they choose to compete on that. As a small company they probably can't chase all the rabbits at the same time. Having said that, it seems people recognize AF is an area that needs work, and I think Ricoh recognizes it as well. For me personally AF was never an issue, as I have been using only manual focus lenses until this fall. Now that I have the 43 and the 77 I can see that the AF is not that great on my K-5. Does it mean that I am justifying Pentax's direction? I don't think so. Just personally for me getting K-1 would be the preferred option as for me personally (I say for me personally so many times on purpose) low light performance, pixel shift, astro tracer, and weather sealing are more important than burst rate and AF. So it works for me personally. So if it works for me personally, why should I complain about it? Does it make me a fanboy? It might be true that in the future my needs might change and AF and burst rate will be more important. Like if my kids get serious about sports. But I get fine photos of them skiing with my old Soviet manual focus lenses. Equipment choices are always about compromises. Even if one has all the money to buy the best of the best, that money has an opportunity cost, so it's a compromise. For me personally Pentax as a compromise works. I still get better photos than my dad with his full frame Nikon and my uncle with his Sony AR something...

02-23-2018, 11:07 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
To me it's weird. Why? Because all the others went for 24mm on the wide focal lenght instead of 28. And if an f4 lens would have been to big and expensive, then why don't they went to a 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 lens? Canon offers this lens also, has 5 stars on B&H and it's light and cheap compared to the f4 lens. The Nikon 24-120 is not that heavy at 710g, it's f4 and it covers also 24-28mm and 105-120mm. I understand the concept of not following the crowd, but sometimes following the crowd is not that bad.

But, it's a topic about K1 Mark II so I will not further go off topic by discussing about lenses. Luckily, CP+ will soon come and the reviewers (Tony Northrup and all the cancan media) will have something else to review instead of bringing back all the negative comments about K1 Mark II.
I wasn't trying to argue that Pentax chose to start at 28mm because they didn't want to follow the crowd. I was suggesting that there are considerations around it that are different for Pentax than for Canon (for example), including 28mm being easier to design at a higher level of performance than 24mm, Pentax having more limited resources and less recent 35mm lens design experience and a need to time the lens release with a major camera announcement (the K-1).

Of course, in an ideal world I am sure Pentax would have loved to have produced a 24mm to 100mm+ lens at that point in time.
02-23-2018, 11:25 AM - 2 Likes   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
I wasn't trying to argue that Pentax chose to start at 28mm because they didn't want to follow the crowd. I was suggesting that there are considerations around it that are different for Pentax than for Canon (for example), including 28mm being easier to design at a higher level of performance than 24mm, Pentax having more limited resources and less recent 35mm lens design experience and a need to time the lens release with a major camera announcement (the K-1).

Of course, in an ideal world I am sure Pentax would have loved to have produced a 24mm to 100mm+ lens at that point in time.
Yep.

When you choose to do 24mm instead of 28mm, that's got a big impact on image quality.

Distortion and vignetting on a full frame lens are higher, the light is no longer just coming in parallel to the ground. Wide angle lenses are harder to design than teles. The customer will have to pay for the engineering to make it any good - often size as well as dollars.

APS-C is the same story. Nikon and Canon know all this and their kit zooms are 18mm, not 16mm.

Back in the 35mm film days, a standard trio of lenses was the 28mm, 50mm and then something like an 85, 105 or 135mm.

I have the 28-105, and it's a pretty amazing lens we Pentaxians have available to us.

It's so good - sharp, fast and silent AF, WR, nice size - it possibly cannibalizes sales of the professional 24-70 f2.8. Great for us buyers, not great for Ricoh.

Last edited by clackers; 02-23-2018 at 12:59 PM.
02-23-2018, 03:01 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax_WA Quote
Ricoh doesn't listen to the photographer's need, they create things they think a photographer would want. Pixel shift for instance, ok great, but even today no software vendor support for that.
Hi Pentax_WA

If I've not misunderstood, I don't know which programs you use, but I can assure you that the Pentax files (pixelshift) I have the K3II, they are supported by different programs,
for example Raw Therapee (which converts/elaborates Raw files), and also Affinity Photo, after various requests in the forum has worked well.
Photoshop believe that after the release of MarkII, I think it will have to reconsider more accurately the release of new ACRs, at least I hope!.
02-23-2018, 03:11 PM   #176
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The standard kit lens on a aps-c camera is 28-80, so 28-105 is a step up in some ways. Its clear that pentax are trying to appeal to the IQ shooters on any budget. The 28-105 achieves that for low budget people or those who prefer primes, while the F2.8 lenses appeal to the top end. F4 zoom are a compromise between the two. In Canikon the 24-70 and 70-200 F4 zooms are the go to IQ lenses for the budget conscious while the extended F4 zooms loose out on either IQ or Price. Pentax has only released 3 FF lenses and brought two from tamron. They are clearly also trying to develop a competent AF system hence why we are seeing PLM and Ring SDM lenses. That however takes time (like 10 years) and hence the delay in lens releases, the last thing they want to do is invest a lot of effort into a new lens only for it to have subpar AF. The Minor K1 update was not expect by anyone, the suspicion is that something else was delayed, so they brought forward the K1ii to fill in the production gap. Most of the R&D work would have been going into a APS-C flagship or new 645, and are not able to be transferred at 6 months notice.
02-23-2018, 08:03 PM   #177
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Here is an interesting comment from the K1 special site. Seems to indicate that AF-C performace was somehow improved due to tech for the new pixel shift. We will see.
“Handheld shooting using the Pixel Shift Resolution System was one feature that the Product Development Team wanted to incorporate into the PENTAX K-1 Mark II. In fact, the Development Team was working on this feature even before the Product Planning Team proposed the idea. When a revolutionary, unconventional mechanism was finally designed, it even impressed the Product Planning Team — who knew every detail of camera design —with its technical intricacy and imagination involved. This upgraded system improved other camera functions as well, such as AF tracking accuracy, making the PENTAX K-1 Mark II much more versatile in field photography”
Challengers | PENTAX K-1 Special site | RICOH IMAGING
02-23-2018, 08:32 PM - 1 Like   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
PS uses ES for taking four exposures as quickly as possible, so there you have the timing.
Yes, but the sensor read-out takes time. The shutter speed might be 1/8000 but there's a 1/4.4 second delay between successive frames. In total, the image will be affect by any subject movement occurring during about a 0.68 second read-out period plus 4X the shutter time.
02-23-2018, 08:37 PM   #179
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As an outsider looking in, you guys are a hot mess lol. Pixel shift images are up, I'm not a pentaxian so you guys tell me if you notice any difference (from K1 to K1mk2). Sample Image? PENTAX K-1 Mark II | RICOH IMAGING
02-23-2018, 08:59 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
Seems to indicate that AF-C performace was somehow improved
I might be wrong as I don't use AF tracking much. But it always seemed to me that the camera was fine obtaining a focus, but just a little too slow so that the subject had already moved. Others have posted the same that the feeling was that the Pentax AF was accurate, it just lacked the processing power to do so fast enough. Maybe the accelerator chip is Pentax's answer to that?
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