Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-24-2018, 12:07 PM   #16
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 8,262
QuoteOriginally posted by whafrog Quote
I can't really say I like the change. Both aren't useable IMHO, but the K1 image still looks "organic" and recognizable, while the K1ii image looks like a cardboard cutout. The new algorithm seems to create hard sharp lines, then make a global decision about colours inside and outside those lines. It's not just "sharpening", it's chopping detail out. I can't see how this is useful.
I take your point, but I think we need to wait and see what the results are like from RAW files in a range of situations. Hopefully it won't be too long before we get to see some comparative RAW samples from reviews and members here.

The thing with noise is that it gives the illusion of detail. I've even added grain to an image to give that illusion of detail when it isn't really there. So long as the new accelerator and / or algorithm isn't removing detail, there should be plenty of control in post-processing to get a more "organic" look... I guess we'll see soon enough

02-24-2018, 01:54 PM - 1 Like   #17
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Newcastle
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,642
Hand held pixel shift + improved ISO performance = MACRO monster. Who needs a flash with these types of technological advances!
02-24-2018, 02:06 PM   #18
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,295
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I'm not really interested in the ISO bump to 819,200 from 204,800. I am interested in better image quality, with substantially lower noise. Here is an example at 12,800. I would be really interested in examples at 1600, especially for night shooting - no moon, ambient low light. The K1 is extremely good, but if it can be substantially better, then it might really be worth the $500 upgrade option. These are the first set of examples I've come across.
To me, just adding a few steps of ISO is valuable. If purchasing a new camera body, something most of us do at least semi-regularly, would allow going to slightly higher ISO values, so a f/4-5.8 lens could be used where formerly a f/2 lens was nearly mandatory, would be great!!


Also, this would make TAv mode more of an answer for those times when we struggle choosing between Tv mode and Av mode.
02-24-2018, 02:27 PM   #19
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2015
Location: New Orleans
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 582
Another analogy is the Doherty threshold.
From Halt and Catch Fire,
"When engineers measure the speed of a PC, they talk about something called the Doherty threshold of system response time," he says. "When you ask your computer to do something and hit the ENTER key, if it answers you back in less than 400 milliseconds, just under half a second, then you will stay glued to that machine for hours. Your eyes may glaze over, but your productivity will soar. Even a slight variation back to half-second response time will allow your attention to stray. But under 400 milliseconds, that's the sweet spot." The difference is your photos won't make you eyes glaze over and its creativity instead of productivity.

02-24-2018, 02:28 PM   #20
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,295
After re-examining the article, I have to confess that it doesn't seem very 'professional' to me. The images are too small to be of much use. We need larger and 100% crops to really evaluate what they have.
02-24-2018, 02:32 PM   #21
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 343
QuoteOriginally posted by Wild Mark Quote
Hand held pixel shift + improved ISO performance = MACRO monster. Who needs a flash with these types of technological advances!
I've seen this idea thrown around quite a bit recently, but why would pixel shift be useful for macro shots? Is it due to the colour reproduction or the reduced noise?
02-24-2018, 02:40 PM - 2 Likes   #22
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North East of England
Posts: 8,262
QuoteOriginally posted by HarisF1 Quote
I've seen this idea thrown around quite a bit recently, but why would pixel shift be useful for macro shots? Is it due to the colour reproduction or the reduced noise?
In a word, detail. By shifting the sensor by a pixel in four directions, it overcomes (I believe) the limitations of the Bayer filter on the sensor by being able to record accurate colour information for every pixel (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, or add more detail)...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/articles/photo-articles/how-pentax-k-3-ii-pixel...ing-works.html
02-24-2018, 03:04 PM   #23
Pentaxian
robjmitchell's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne Aus
Posts: 1,431
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
After re-examining the article, I have to confess that it doesn't seem very 'professional' to me. The images are too small to be of much use. We need larger and 100% crops to really evaluate what they have.
Watch the video in full size. They might not be 100% but they are big crops. 1minute in.

They also have a quick scan of the different ISOs up to 512 from the crop, with no obvious colour changes till the last couple ISO.

All in all very impressive, especially compared to my K3!

02-24-2018, 03:05 PM - 1 Like   #24
Forum Member




Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tasmania
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 63
QuoteOriginally posted by HarisF1 Quote
I've seen this idea thrown around quite a bit recently, but why would pixel shift be useful for macro shots? Is it due to the colour reproduction or the reduced noise?
I get more use from pixel shift on macro than any other shooting style, mainly because the subject usually isnt moving!

I originally thought the enhanced resolution was the main benefit but in the end the colour reproduction is what I really like about pixel shift. I usually shoot once with pixel shift on, and again with it off, and even just toggling back and forth between the two images on the back of camera you can see richer colours on the pixel shift shot.
02-24-2018, 03:14 PM   #25
Pentaxian
robjmitchell's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne Aus
Posts: 1,431
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I guess I should go and read about the KP (essentially the accelerator chip's capabilities) to see if the increased noise reduction is spread across the entire ISO range or is just oriented towards the higher ranges. I have not read anything about the KP, so I know very little - especially about any potential increase in image quality.

The accelerator chip is supposed to be most effective at low and mid ISOs. It retains detail and improves noise and DR. Looking at the the K1ii 26400 images. The Blacks look really clear while the whites seem noisier. Maybe it is some form of black field subtraction thingamyjig as someone mentioned somewhere.
02-24-2018, 04:01 PM - 2 Likes   #26
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 86
the new chip is truly the camera's selling point. better noise performance is actually top of my list of reasons to switch from my k-3 ii to kp. i feel like very few people appreciate how big of a deal the new chip is, they're all just saying this is a bizarre non-update to the K-1 and they never even mention the new chip and what big change it is for noise performance. i dont shoot high ISO a lot, but there are times when i've REQUIRED fast shutter speeds with high ISO, but my k-3 ii was just being pushed too much at its limits, even resized for web sizes
02-24-2018, 05:13 PM   #27
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,197
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
The accelerator chip is supposed to be most effective at low and mid ISOs. It retains detail and improves noise and DR. Looking at the the K1ii 26400 images. The Blacks look really clear while the whites seem noisier. Maybe it is some form of black field subtraction thingamyjig as someone mentioned somewhere.
QuoteOriginally posted by adjutant Quote
the new chip is truly the camera's selling point. better noise performance is actually top of my list of reasons to switch from my k-3 ii to kp. i feel like very few people appreciate how big of a deal the new chip is, they're all just saying this is a bizarre non-update to the K-1 and they never even mention the new chip and what big change it is for noise performance. i dont shoot high ISO a lot, but there are times when i've REQUIRED fast shutter speeds with high ISO, but my k-3 ii was just being pushed too much at its limits, even resized for web sizes
I just spent a bit of time searching "KP accelerator chip", and finding very little. Apparently there are few shooting with the KP. I looked quickly at the KP review here and didn't really find too much either. What I did find was this post....This thread does have a fair amount of information, and does touch on one concern of mine, which is - what it might do to astro images? Would it process the noise is such a way as to emulate the Sony "star eater" problem?

Has anyone used the KP for any sort of astro shooting? Milky Way? Deep space objects?

02-24-2018, 05:31 PM   #28
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 775
On the sample image page images 01 and 02 are iso 400 and 800. The iso 800 image with the yellow flowers gives a good indication of what the Accelerator Unit is achieving. The lower right corner of the image retains a lot of shadow detail in how the green leaves all retain a clear color value without the color/luminance noise happening in the shadow transitions.

Beyond better color/noise control this will extend usable images for B&W conversion.
02-24-2018, 05:32 PM   #29
Pentaxian
photoptimist's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,986
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I just spent a bit of time searching "KP accelerator chip", and finding very little. Apparently there are few shooting with the KP. I looked quickly at the KP review here and didn't really find too much either. What I did find was this post....This thread does have a fair amount of information, and does touch on one concern of mine, which is - what it might do to astro images? Would it process the noise is such a way as to emulate the Sony "star eater" problem?

Has anyone used the KP for any sort of astro shooting? Milky Way? Deep space objects?

Excellent question!! (One I'm interested in too).

There's some astro images taken with the KP at Pentax KP - AstroBin but I've not had time to analyze them.
02-24-2018, 06:15 PM   #30
Pentaxian
robjmitchell's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne Aus
Posts: 1,431
QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I just spent a bit of time searching "KP accelerator chip", and finding very little. Apparently there are few shooting with the KP. I looked quickly at the KP review here and didn't really find too much either. What I did find was this post....This thread does have a fair amount of information, and does touch on one concern of mine, which is - what it might do to astro images? Would it process the noise is such a way as to emulate the Sony "star eater" problem?

Has anyone used the KP for any sort of astro shooting? Milky Way? Deep space objects?

If seen reports that the kp is excellent for astro and no star eater effect. Might have been on dp forums.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
accelerator, apples, description, examples, iso, k-1, lounge, noise, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, slr, terms
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-5 vs MZ-S vs LX vs PZ-1p vs ist*D vs K10D vs K20D vs K-7 vs....... Steelski Pentax K-5 2 06-28-2017 04:59 PM
K-1 Full res JPGs versus D810 ISO 12800, ISO 51200 beholder3 Pentax News and Rumors 103 03-23-2016 01:24 PM
Nikon D3200 with D4`s processor and 24 megapixels as well as iso 12800. Reportage Pentax DSLR Discussion 25 04-24-2012 08:53 AM
K-5 Vs K-7 ISO 6400 & 12800 eigelb Pentax News and Rumors 7 09-28-2010 03:19 AM
Another ISO 12800 sample from D7000, good news for K-5? leeak Pentax News and Rumors 26 09-18-2010 03:57 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:21 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top