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02-28-2018, 04:54 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote

A lot more enthusiasts can afford pro grade glass than pros. The "pro" equipment market is almost entirely made up of enthusiasts.
I think this is true. A lot of pros rent or use their companies gear (sports photographers). Pros that I’ve seen also tend to buy gear they need and enthusiasts have more “frivolous” items also.

02-28-2018, 06:27 PM - 1 Like   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by dafbp Quote
About the 70-200: does f4 vs f2.8 means mandatory (as in laws of physics) worse IQ, or is that just a design decision (as in f2.8 is for pros, so f4 doesn't need to be good just cheap)? Can't a "slow" lens have "pro" IQ, while being smaller, and (hopefully) cheaper?
Many f/4 lenses have stellar IQ. They are definitely smaller than their f/2.8 siblings. And usually less expensive, which might be because the market demands that or because the elements are smaller to start with.
It used to be: f/2.8 glass = big, heavy, pro. f/4 glass = smaller, lighter, enthusiast or landscape. Variable aperture = cheap, lower quality for consumers. These days that seems to be blurring somewhat. The DFA 28-105 being a case in point. If it was f/4 everyone would have been happy. But it is a variable aperture so at first it was panned. Only after the results showed the stellar IQ was it accepted.

I have the DFA 24-70 f/2.8 but if a DFA 24-105 f/4 had been available I would not have even looked at the 24-70 I have no need for f/2.8 but I do need the IQ that is usually associated with the f/2.8 glass.

---------- Post added 02-28-18 at 05:41 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
Same here, i dont get the purpose of coming with this lens...
Simple.
Potential sales of a 70-200 f/4 = many 1,000s
Potential sales of a 85 f/1.4 = many 100s

Trying to understand what Pentax does with the information available to the general public is only going to be frustrating. Not enough information to make an informed decision. Despite what the general public believes there is a sound business or engineering reason behind every decision.
02-28-2018, 07:05 PM - 2 Likes   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Many f/4 lenses have stellar IQ. They are definitely smaller than their f/2.8 siblings. And usually less expensive, which might be because the market demands that or because the elements are smaller to start with.
It used to be: f/2.8 glass = big, heavy, pro. f/4 glass = smaller, lighter, enthusiast or landscape. Variable aperture = cheap, lower quality for consumers. These days that seems to be blurring somewhat. The DFA 28-105 being a case in point. If it was f/4 everyone would have been happy. But it is a variable aperture so at first it was panned. Only after the results showed the stellar IQ was it accepted.

I have the DFA 24-70 f/2.8 but if a DFA 24-105 f/4 had been available I would not have even looked at the 24-70 I have no need for f/2.8 but I do need the IQ that is usually associated with the f/2.8 glass.

---------- Post added 02-28-18 at 05:41 PM ----------


Simple.
Potential sales of a 70-200 f/4 = many 1,000s
Potential sales of a 85 f/1.4 = many 100s

Trying to understand what Pentax does with the information available to the general public is only going to be frustrating. Not enough information to make an informed decision. Despite what the general public believes there is a sound business or engineering reason behind every decision.
It's almost like if people can't figure out what Pentax is doing, it's because Pentax is stupid. That's a double edged sword that cuts both ways.

Last edited by normhead; 03-03-2018 at 07:11 PM.
02-28-2018, 07:31 PM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Or, just limit the movement of the zoom to 200mm, voila, instant 80-200.

---------- Post added 02-28-18 at 04:23 PM ----------



A lot more enthusiasts can afford pro grade glass than pros. The "pro" equipment market is almost entirely made up of enthusiasts.


02-28-2018, 07:32 PM - 3 Likes   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Be sure that I will make them stuff the 70-200 a place where the sun doesn't shine!
Now, now Kenneth. You know I love you, and your work, but you don't want to start sounding one of those entitled Pentax Forums whingers, do you?

If it's any good, they'll sell the 70-200/4.0 by the boat load, making lots of money for them to spend developing high end lenses.
02-28-2018, 07:35 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by str8talk83 Quote
I think this is true. A lot of pros rent or use their companies gear (sports photographers). Pros that I’ve seen also tend to buy gear they need and enthusiasts have more “frivolous” items also.
A pro is less inclined to trade up from his 5DMkll if it still does the job. An enthusiast is much more likely to let want become need and get the MkIV.
02-28-2018, 10:32 PM - 1 Like   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by fsge Quote
Same here, i dont get the purpose of coming with this lens...
Do you by chance know personnaly head of business dev or head of R&D at pentax Japan ? Or any other guy there who could liaise me with these individuals?
Not on a personal level, but know where they hide

---------- Post added 03-01-18 at 06:36 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Now, now Kenneth. You know I love you, and your work, but you don't want to start sounding one of those entitled Pentax Forums whingers, do you?

If it's any good, they'll sell the 70-200/4.0 by the boat load, making lots of money for them to spend developing high end lenses.
Hehe I love what I do and just want the brand to be taken even more serious in the pro world. Then this feels like a punch in the face! Finish a good foundation that attracts more pros to switch..THEN you can deal with the consumers/hobby photographers etc Dont know how many times I hear; Sorry, but I want Nikon/Canon..cause that is what the pros use..
02-28-2018, 11:01 PM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Finish a good foundation that attracts more pros to switch..THEN you can deal with the consumers/hobby photographers etc Dont know how many times I hear; Sorry, but I want Nikon/Canon..cause that is what the pros use..
I hear ya.
But folks at Pentax have to pay the bills too

02-28-2018, 11:09 PM - 2 Likes   #204
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Exactly..Thats why you have to be able to attract new users..And pros..that also will attract new consumers I work with this daily. Pentax have still a problem with be taken as serious as the big boys
02-28-2018, 11:16 PM - 1 Like   #205
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I'll lend you my FA*85 for a couple of months if you like
02-28-2018, 11:23 PM - 1 Like   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
And pros..that also will attract new consumers
QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I work with this daily. Pentax have still a problem with be taken as serious as the big boys
What is "big boy"?
A lot of pros don't actually use Fuji X, but they promote it with direct or indirect incentive from Fuji sales&marketing. Typically you have a camera shop that is also offering studio photography and recording demo videos for promoting the gear on youtube (they not only promote one brand but any brand willing to pay them to make a video). Selling to pro for their own use is not going to have any effect on consumer sales. Those pro who are going on location to execute as a photographer have nearly zero impact on sales. 99% of sales are triggered by promotional efforts.
02-28-2018, 11:32 PM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
What is "big boy"?
Those who dominates the marked we are trying to be in.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Selling to pro for their own use is not going to have any effect on consumer sales.
I hear the opposite almost on a daily basis.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Those pro who are going on location to execute as a photographer have nearly zero impact on sales. 99% of sales are triggered by promotional efforts.
Again, my experience working with this shows the opposite. Think you'd be surprised how many times I hear the words "No, I'm a serious photographer, I can't go for Pentax. I want Nikon/Canon/Sony..cause that is what the real pros use".
02-28-2018, 11:46 PM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Those who dominates the marked we are trying to be in.



I hear the opposite almost on a daily basis.



Again, my experience working with this shows the opposite. Think you'd be surprised how many times I hear the words "No, I'm a serious photographer, I can't go for Pentax. I want Nikon/Canon/Sony..cause that is what the real pros use".
They see everywhere what PRO are using because the big boys send cameras and lenses to reviewers, the big boys do sponsor a lot of events, the big boys have membership plans with a lot of facilities for the ones who spend money, the big boys offer renting options, the big boys have a complete system behind to support them, the big boys have their space in photo shops, the big boys do a lot of things that Pentax doesn't do.

Someone said the other day (I think it was one of the admins) that even the presentation short movie of the new entry level Canon camera released a few days ago is a lot better than what Pentax shown for K1.

If Ricoh throwed you in shallow waters without helping you with marketing and some other stuff, it is going to be even harder for you to attract pro users given the fact that a lot of ingeresting cameras are rummored to be released this year by the big boys. And with Sony so active... I wish you good luck because you will need it.
02-28-2018, 11:59 PM - 1 Like   #209
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Sadly, I think Dan's right; without the right marketing and professional support structures (neither of which Pentax seems to have the means or desire to underwrite), kenspo's efforts are most likely in vain.

I seriously hope I'm wrong though.
02-28-2018, 11:59 PM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I wish you good luck because you will need it.
Thank you! I need it I belive in the system, otherwise I wouldn't find the energy to this! But sometimes I feel like I'm the only one doing this... (Ricoh Nordic does an amazing job, but they also dont have their limits on what they can do etc). And stuff have got some better with K-1, 2.8 zooms and me being the face in public


But who doesn't like a challenge?

---------- Post added 03-01-18 at 08:00 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
I seriously hope I'm wrong though.
Me too..
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