Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-01-2018, 11:48 AM   #256
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Pål Jensen's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,371
A 70-200/4 outsells a 85/1.4 50:1

03-01-2018, 11:53 AM - 1 Like   #257
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,991
QuoteOriginally posted by angerdan Quote
It's not very specialized, since every camera system offers an equivalent.
If you mean the 85mm, then yes it is a special task lens. The average photographer has no need of it. And the vast majority would not buy it. Actually the vast majority would never buy a prime lens of any kind. I'm not sure what you mean by 28-250: 28-105? 28-200? Regardless I certainly have no numbers to say one lens was purchased by people more than another. It is my opinion however that zooms with focal ranges many people would use sell far more than special task lenses.

Curious how you determined the FA*85 is more common than other lenses? Can you point me to a source for that? I've often wondered if Pentax published production numbers.
03-01-2018, 12:14 PM   #258
Veteran Member
Dan Rentea's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 1,716
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
And the vast majority would not buy it. Actually the vast majority would never buy a prime lens of any kind.
That's strange. Almost every entry level photographer I saw lately bought a 35mm or a 50mm to complement the kit lens. And the enthusiastic ones usually have an 85mm f1.8 in their bag.
03-01-2018, 12:18 PM   #259
Veteran Member
str8talk83's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bluffton, SC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 674
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
That's strange. Almost every entry level photographer I saw lately bought a 35mm or a 50mm to complement the kit lens. And the enthusiastic ones usually have an 85mm f1.8 in their bag.
I think it depends on how we define the "vast majority." I would say that it's true that a lot of photographers will just buy a cheap camera and kit lens and be done with it, but there are a lot of users that are taking things more seriously and will at least have a cheap 50mm f/1.8 in the bag. It doesn't take long with a slow kit zoom to desire something else, at least that was my experience. I've owned one kit lens and that was 8 years ago...

03-01-2018, 12:18 PM   #260
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,991
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
That's strange. Almost every entry level photographer I saw lately bought a 35mm or a 50mm to complement the kit lens. And the enthusiastic ones usually have an 85mm f1.8 in their bag.
Different group there I suppose. In my travels here and there, in my art co-operative and in my camera club I know of only one other person who has a prime lens. Of course maybe they have them and just don't use them. At last camera club outing, 20 photographers with various equipment. No primes all zooms.
03-01-2018, 12:20 PM   #261
Veteran Member
str8talk83's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bluffton, SC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 674
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Different group there I suppose. In my travels here and there, in my art co-operative and in my camera club I know of only one other person who has a prime lens. Of course maybe they have them and just don't use them. At last camera club outing, 20 photographers with various equipment. No primes all zooms.
It probably depends on your demographic too. I live in Naples, FL where my camera club was filled with retirees. They were using the best of the best Nikon D5, pro zooms, high end primes and even Leica gear. I felt like the cheapskate going there and I've always had decent mid to high level gear.
03-01-2018, 12:24 PM   #262
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 7,001
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
If you mean the 85mm, then yes it is a special task lens. The average photographer has no need of it. And the vast majority would not buy it. Actually the vast majority would never buy a prime lens of any kind. I'm not sure what you mean by 28-250: 28-105? 28-200? Regardless I certainly have no numbers to say one lens was purchased by people more than another. It is my opinion however that zooms with focal ranges many people would use sell far more than special task lenses.

Curious how you determined the FA*85 is more common than other lenses? Can you point me to a source for that? I've often wondered if Pentax published production numbers.
He meant 18-250 IMHO

03-01-2018, 12:40 PM   #263
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,991
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
He meant 18-250 IMHO
Forgot that one.
QuoteOriginally posted by str8talk83 Quote
It probably depends on your demographic too.
Without a doubt. I am I believe the oldest in our camera club by a decade or so. Most of them have never shot film or owned a film camera. So they have no experience of the days when a prime was clearly without a doubt superior. I handed one woman my camera with a 50mm mounted and she asked me where the zoom ring was.
03-01-2018, 12:43 PM   #264
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,562
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Forgot that one.

Without a doubt. I am I believe the oldest in our camera club by a decade or so. Most of them have never shot film or owned a film camera. So they have no experience of the days when a prime was clearly without a doubt superior. I handed one woman my camera with a 50mm mounted and she asked me where the zoom ring was.

at that time ( film era ) a zoom was a compromise allowing one to cover multiple focal lengths at a cheaper cost than the equivalent number of primes imho

there were ones that were better than others, I had a couple of Vivitar Series 1 lenses - 28-105

https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/vivitar-series-1-28-105mm-2-8-3-8.html

and 70 - 210

https://www.pentaxforums.com/userreviews/vivitar-70-210mm-f2-8-4-version-3.html

now the digital zoom can be so good
03-01-2018, 12:44 PM   #265
Veteran Member
zmohie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: egypt
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 435
70-200mm f4 and 11-18mm are the lenses which most users asked for including me.when all these 2019 lenses come then we have a completely APS C lenses and almost a completely FF system. No more complaining.
03-01-2018, 12:46 PM - 2 Likes   #266
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,902
QuoteOriginally posted by str8talk83 Quote
It probably depends on your demographic too. I live in Naples, FL where my camera club was filled with retirees. They were using the best of the best Nikon D5, pro zooms, high end primes and even Leica gear. I felt like the cheapskate going there and I've always had decent mid to high level gear.
In other words, they were typical pro equipment buyers.
03-01-2018, 01:00 PM   #267
Veteran Member
str8talk83's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bluffton, SC
Photos: Albums
Posts: 674
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Forgot that one.

Without a doubt. I am I believe the oldest in our camera club by a decade or so. Most of them have never shot film or owned a film camera. So they have no experience of the days when a prime was clearly without a doubt superior. I handed one woman my camera with a 50mm mounted and she asked me where the zoom ring was.
I’m the opposite. I’m 34 and the youngest member I’ve ever met in our club. In “season” we have about 200 people
03-01-2018, 01:15 PM - 1 Like   #268
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
RGlasel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Saskatoon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,225
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
A 70-200/4 outsells a 85/1.4 50:1
You are probably correct, but photographic equipment buyers (everyone from "soccer moms" to enthusiastic amateurs to people who pay their bills by selling the photographs they make) decide to buy a system, not a camera or a lens. Once that decision is made, marketing new products is easy. The hard part, that takes lots of marketing, is getting the owner of a system to switch. No one will switch to Pentax because they introduced a 70-200/4 zoom and no one will leave Pentax because another system has one and Pentax doesn't.

Pentax has camera bodies that are good enough to convince many buyers to switch, but before those buyers decide to buy a Pentax system, they will consider the quality of the lens lineup. A stellar 85/1.4 will impress buyers looking to switch from Canon or Nikon systems, even if they would never own such a lens themselves, it makes a direct statement (not needing any interpretation from the likes of Tony Northrup) that Pentax has a serious, high-grade, advanced system. Not having an 85/1.4 or having one that is "known" to be antiquated or somehow inferior to its competitors, will only confirm any negative impressions potential switchers have of Pentax. Even if the buyer just wants a cheap, lightweight system for casual use, it makes a difference if the manufacturer is capable of selling a serious, high-grade, advanced system.

If something is being marketed to more than one buyer, it is social marketing. However, people vastly overrate the importance of "social network" marketing. If you
agree with something Tony Northrup broadcasts in a YouTube video, he must be an important influencer, otherwise you see him for the bone-headed twit he really is. Unless you dropped out of a alien spaceship and landed in a camera store with your VISA card, you have been exposed to some type of photographic equipment prior to deciding to buy a new camera or lens and you have a better idea of what is important to you than any influencer on the Internet, even if they are your connected friend.

The only reason to read reviews or listen to someone else's opinion is to compare it to your own experiences and opinions. Even if the reviewer is obviously obtuse, you can still look for comments that reveal some truth, where the reviewer has been surprised when a product doesn't conform to their preconceived opinions, or is trying too hard to compensate for their "favorite" or is basing their opinion on demonstrably incorrect information. The more intelligent and trustworthy reviewers are useful for giving you ammunition to justify your buying decision after you make the purchase.

You don't have be Ernest Einstein to know that the business for photographic equipment systems has peaked and is in decline. There are fewer opportunities to show off your expertise by buying new equipment. You won't impress many by simply buying something new, you have to make sure you put lots of time and effort into making good buying decisions and you definitely don't want to make obviously bad decisions. What makes a bad decision? Buying a system that doesn't offer the gratification of having noteworthy new products available for purchase. Even if you buy just the bare essentials for now, hopefully you can add to your system in the future with something really impressive. Pentax doesn't need better social marketing or YouTube reviews, it needs a more impressive system and through the magic of the Internet, people will learn about it and decide for themselves if it is worthwhile to switch.
03-01-2018, 01:38 PM - 2 Likes   #269
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Washington Cascades
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,991
QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
A stellar 85/1.4 will impress buyers looking to switch from Canon or Nikon systems, even if they would never own such a lens themselves,
I am personally convinced based on my experience that the vast majority of DSLR owners, if questioned, would not know what an 85 f/1.4 is, much less want one.

The microcosm we have here on this forum and other photography forums is a tiny minority of DSLR buyers. And while I agree that enthusiasts might look at a system and make a decision for or against because of pieces of that system they would never buy I maintain that the group that does that is small compared to the group that doesn't even know what those pieces are much less care.

If we were not enthusiastic about photography and cameras we would not be hanging out here. I would really like to know the number of Pentax owners versus Pentax Forum members. I think we would all be shocked at how small this group actually is.
03-01-2018, 01:57 PM   #270
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,442
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I am personally convinced based on my experience that the vast majority of DSLR owners, if questioned, would not know what an 85 f/1.4 is, much less want one
IN a recent conversation with a camera store owner I asked him what he thought of the coming Pentax 1.4 lenses. He said " I can't sell 1.4 lenses of any make."

The only way 1.4 lenses make any sense is the prestige value of a few good reviews with the Pentax name on them, places like Imaging Resources and DPR. This is a marketing ploy, not an attempt to produce needed lens in needed focal lengths.

If, I'm walking into a store today looking for an FF and the only affordable lens they have is over $1000 they've lost a sale. That 28-105 is probably all that's keeping the K-1 going at the moment.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
200mm, 300mm, 70-200mm, aperture, enthusiasts, f/2.8, f/4, f2.8, f4, glass, grade, information, iq, lens, lenses, light, lot, love, market, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, post, quality, sigma, tc, users, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K70 firmware update 1.1.0,DCU update 5.6.1 OoKU Pentax News and Rumors 4 09-07-2016 02:19 AM
ebay K1 deal, US $1,688.88 w003txz Pentax Price Watch 11 07-13-2016 04:51 PM
Anyone notice the DA* lens dissapeared from the new lens roadmap? LFLee Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 20 08-30-2013 11:06 PM
两部K-r,月内新机,全部出现反光板乱跳问题! anna Pentax DSLR Discussion 3 09-27-2011 11:35 AM
a discussion on god... god i was bored.. Gooshin General Talk 9 02-11-2010 01:01 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:38 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top