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03-19-2018, 02:47 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
More complicated? Because you've got choice?
Sorry I don't understand ��
In 2014 I resigned myself to thinking that Pentax would never offer a full frame dslr. I upgraded to a K-5II that was on clearance and threw my cash at 5 HD DA Limited lenses. It was a big investment and I saved for a long time. I could have easily bought a K-1 and D FA 28-105 if these were available. Now I’m committed to APS-C. Today I’m in a position to buy one lens that is between $1,000 and $1,400. Whatever I choose I’ll have to live with it for a long time. So yes the choice is complicated because if I wait - I’ll miss a lot of shooting opportunities during the short summer on this sub artic tundra. If I don’t wait and a better lens is released that is superior to lethargic Sudden Death Motor AF - I’ll regret it. I still have kids to put through school so my investments in photography must be smart investments.


Last edited by Saltwater Images; 03-19-2018 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Typo
03-19-2018, 11:47 PM   #122
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Oh, I get it, totally.
Indeed, whatever you choose, you dunno if it was a good decision or not till later.

Annoying indeed.
03-20-2018, 03:11 AM - 2 Likes   #123
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The 16-50 is OK. Are there better 16-50 f2.8 lenses out there with sealing? Maybe, but most of the lenses in this range only go to 17mm so it is a little tough to compare. CAs are present and I wouldn't shoot at 16mm and f2.8 -- by f4 borders are a lot sharper. My guess would be that Pentax would tweak the optical formula as well as changing the motor and the lens coatings, but I'm not a Pentax engineer so, not sure how hard it would be to fix this lens (remember it was one of the very first DA * lenses -- I've owned mine since 2008).
03-20-2018, 01:34 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Saltwater Images Quote
In 2014 I resigned myself to thinking that Pentax would never offer a full frame dslr. I upgraded to a K-5II that was on clearance and threw my cash at 5 HD DA Limited lenses. It was a big investment and I saved for a long time. I could have easily bought a K-1 and D FA 28-105 if these were available. Now I知 committed to APS-C. Today I知 in a position to buy one lens that is between $1,000 and $1,400. Whatever I choose I値l have to live with it for a long time. So yes the choice is complicated because if I wait - I値l miss a lot of shooting opportunities during the short summer on this sub artic tundra. If I don稚 wait and a better lens is released that is superior to lethargic Sudden Death Motor AF - I値l regret it. I still have kids to put through school so my investments in photography must be smart investments.
Considering you have the primes if you need the speed, surely the 16-85 would have to be a contender if landscape performance with weather sealing is paramount?

03-20-2018, 03:54 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
Considering you have the primes if you need the speed, surely the 16-85 would have to be a contender if landscape performance with weather sealing is paramount?
I’m actually looking for a longer lens. The DA* 200 or DA* 300 are where my head was prior to this thread. The 60-250 seemed to be an excellent choice as well. I just picked up a HD DA 1.4X TC. Any one of those 3 lenses would have worked for shooting minke, humpback and killer whales, eagles, cormorants, puffins, bears, caribou, moose, and more. I dread the current DA* SDM AF speed. Having shot with both the DA* 16-50 and DA* 50-135 it’s the AF speed that disappoints. The promise of more reliable AF motors may be reason enough to wait.

Last edited by Saltwater Images; 03-20-2018 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Typo
03-20-2018, 04:35 PM - 1 Like   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Saltwater Images Quote
I知 actually looking for a longer lens. The DA* 200 or DA* 300 are where my head was prior to this thread. The 60-250 seemed to be an excellent choice as well. I just picked up a HD DA 1.4X TC. Any one of those 3 lenses would have worked for shooting minke, humpback and killer whales, eagles, cormorants, puffins, bears, caribou, moose, and more. I dread the current DA* SDM AF speed. Having shot with both the DA* 16-50 and DA* 50-135 it痴 the AF speed that disappoints. The promise of more reliable AF motors may be reason enough to wait.
The DFA 150-450 would be an obvious suggestion!
03-21-2018, 01:42 PM - 2 Likes   #127
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I don't know if it's related to any future Pentax product, but I've just seen a newly published patent about reducing chromatic aberrations etc. and achieving excellent optical performance in a 16-50 f/2.8:
??2018-45172 | ???????IP Force?
03-22-2018, 04:20 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I don't know if it's related to any future Pentax product, but I've just seen a newly published patent about reducing chromatic aberrations etc. and achieving excellent optical performance in a 16-50 f/2.8:
??2018-45172 | ???????IP Force?
It's most probably the patent of the upgraded 16-50mm f/2.8.

There are 10 examples in the patent, all of them susceptible to be marketed as 16-50mm f/2.8 APS-C zoom lenses. Five examples include 16 elements in 13 groups. Three examples include 17 elements in 13 groups. Two examples include 15 elements in 12 groups.

The current smc Pentax-DA★ 16-50mm f/2.8 ED AL[IF] SDM includes 15 elements in 12 groups:



The two examples of the patent which include 15 elements in 12 groups too (example 4 and example 7) are pretty close to the current DA★.

Example 4:



Example 7:



Considering that emphasis is put on the minimisation of chromatic aberrations In the description of the benefits of the invention, I think that this patent is that of a revamped DA★ 16-50mm f/2.8, close to the current lens but with some tweaks in its optical formula aimed at mitigating one of the main weaknesses of the current lens, its high level of chromatic aberrations.

03-22-2018, 05:11 AM   #129
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Does the patent say anything about the focus motor?
03-22-2018, 05:24 AM   #130
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No, it does not. It's purely about optics.
03-22-2018, 08:16 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
There are 10 examples in the patent, all of them susceptible to be marketed as 16-50mm f/2.8 APS-C zoom lenses. Five examples include 16 elements in 13 groups. Three examples include 17 elements in 13 groups. Two examples include 15 elements in 12 groups.

My guess is that they were going to redesign the optics so they don't have to re-licence with Tokina, but I wonder if this has changed now with the new Pentax/Tokina partnership that was started with the DA* 11-18.

Last edited by y0chang; 03-22-2018 at 08:17 AM. Reason: add quote
03-22-2018, 08:20 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
My guess is that they were going to redesign the optics so they don't have to re-licence with Tokina
Sigh... the original 16-50 was also developed by Pentax, and licensed to Tokina.
03-22-2018, 08:24 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by y0chang Quote
My guess is that they were going to redesign the optics so they don't have to re-licence with Tokina, but I wonder if this has changed now with the new Pentax/Tokina partnership that was started with the DA* 11-18.
Wrong guess I'm afraid since the smc Pentax-DA★ 16-50mm f/2.8 ED AL[IF] SDM is based on a Pentax-patented design licensed to Tokina for their own ATX 16-50mm f/2.8 Pro DX lens, not from them.

Edit: as Kunzite wrote before me
03-22-2018, 10:15 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Wrong guess I'm afraid since the smc Pentax-DA★ 16-50mm f/2.8 ED AL[IF] SDM is based on a Pentax-patented design licensed to Tokina for their own ATX 16-50mm f/2.8 Pro DX lens, not from them.

Edit: as Kunzite wrote before me
Just because the optical patent was created by Pentax, doesn't mean that Pentax has control of all the copyrights nor do we have full knowledge of their joint development agreement. I don't really care which way or the other, my 50-135mm is one of my favorite lenses, and if Pentax wants to create more DA* quality lenses, they could sign an agreement with the evil Canikon empire for all I care.
03-22-2018, 10:25 AM - 1 Like   #135
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If you don't know, don't start "guessing" agreements with Tokina please. The Internet is full of fake news as it is.

The simplest explanation is that they want to reduce the CA and overall improve the optical performance, compared with the first version. As stated in the patent.
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