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03-03-2018, 06:54 AM - 7 Likes   #1
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Short CP+ K-1 II Impressions

I visited CP+ today and had a touch and try with the new K-1 II with an english speaking staff.
After that I went to their small special booth where they show case the new high iso performance of the k-1 II with taking a picture simultaneously on the old and the new K-1 model and let you compare the results directly on the screen.

All the K-1 II new features are provided by the new accelerator unit, as we know, which only helps in faster processing the pictures and therefore allow new software tweaks / algorythms (like better tracking AF-C / better high ISO performance due to noise processing? [read below] and the new pixel shift mode).
The main processor or other parts have not changed though. Therefore there is no benefit to other processor intensive tasks like faster UI (which I hoped for ).
Also there is no benefit for video capturing because it does not use that unit (I specifically asked). Also they do not fokus on video and they had no information on a firmware update providing mechanical SR for video. They clearly stated that Pentax focuses not on video but picture taking.

The new pixelshift mode is taking pictures in interval mode with mechanical shutter and takes therefore longer than the real pixel shift. Which uses electronical shutter and is taking pictures faster in sequence (they confirmed this also).

The high ISO shots were compared at ISO 25.600.
The K-1 II had better colors with less false colors and more contrast.
But the edges were more smeared! It looked as if there is some mild noise reduction applied even if noise reduction is turned off.
One could easily see that the original K-1 picture had more defined edges and is less smeared. Like they had the number „4“ on a wine bottle and the inner space of the „4“ was smeared into yellowisch on the K-1 II whereas in the K-1 picture this was not the case.

But keep in mind that really was pixel peeping in max zoom, so I am sure nobody expects perfectly useable images at ISO 25.600 in 1:1 view. So due to better colors and higher contrast the overall picture will probably look better than on the original K-1.
Still I do not like that I have to give up details compared to the original K-1 picture. Especiallly if I am not able to turn these “improvements” of if I prefer more details instead.

Anyhow I can just advice anybody to think the hardware upgrade through and wait for reviews to make an informed decision.

Actually I wanted to update the hardware in my K-1 because I totally like what pentax is doing there. Especially from the environmental point of view.
But now I am not so sure if there is really a 500€ improvement in the K-1 II.
I will definitely wait for reviews until I decide.

Also please take these things with a grain of salt. Even if I wrote “they” I spoke only to one staff member so there might be some misinterpretations /-informations going on xD.

Here is a photo I took of the high ISO comparison shown on a big TV screen at the booth. You could even see the slight smearing there, take a look at the letters:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2ynvdykydzb5ro/IMGP6201.JPG?dl=1

I asked about the 50mm star lens release, they were only allowed to state spring but hinted on cherryblossom season (end of march / april).
They also had a flyer about a completly reworked ImageSync app in spring (fingers crossed).

I also asked Sigma about K-Mount lenses -> unfortunately there are no plans to release new lenses in K-Mount. Even if the person I asked understand our needs as she has a friend who also uses pentax cameras and is bugging here about this xD.
Same information on Zeiss lenses.

If interested I could upload some images from the exhibiton next week when I am back at at my laptop.

03-03-2018, 07:05 AM - 1 Like   #2
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Interesting... thanks for posting this.

Were the files you compared in JPEG or RAW format? I think it's really important that we look at RAW file results...

That aside, the comparison screenshot looks very good to me. I guess I can see what you mean about the smearing on the lettering, but I suspect the noisier K-1 image is giving a false perception of edge detail which is common with grainy images...
03-03-2018, 08:01 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snakeisthestuff Quote
They also had a flyer about a completly reworked ImageSync app in spring (fingers crossed).
Yes!

(fingers crossed)
03-03-2018, 08:07 AM - 1 Like   #4
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The new images are more usable IMO. Better color, better edge definition. That's just my opinion of course. The differences are admittedly small.

03-03-2018, 08:08 AM   #5
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Cherry blossom season starts in 4 weeks or so. So if they don't know, it aint coming.
03-03-2018, 08:39 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by zosxavius Quote
The new images are more usable IMO. Better color, better edge definition. That's just my opinion of course. The differences are admittedly small.
It is shot at 12800 and higher ISO. NR doesn't help on color coding, better spend the money into fast lenses.
03-03-2018, 08:46 AM - 1 Like   #7
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That 12800 image with the Mark2 looks pretty good to me. I will be very interested to see what night landscape/Milky Way shots look like.
03-03-2018, 08:55 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It is shot at 12800 and higher ISO. NR doesn't help on color coding, better spend the money into fast lenses.
Quite how they're improving the image quality is unclear, but I'm not sure it's as simple as NR - at least, not on it's own. I'll be interested to see a RAW shot comparison for the K-1 and K-1II side by side on my own PC.

That aside, fast lenses often don't help... f/1.4 might let in plenty of light, but it's no good if you need reasonable depth of field in a shot. Better high ISO performance allows us to compromise less on creative choices...

03-03-2018, 08:56 AM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It is shot at 12800 and higher ISO. NR doesn't help on color coding, better spend the money into fast lenses.
But there are lots of situations where ISO 12,800 would be useful to have. I shoot a K-3 and 6400 is pretty much my absolute limit. I'll push the K-5 IIs into 8000 or more if I have to. The mark II is obviously not desaturating the image as much at high isos. That tells me the signal to noise ratio is higher because the desaturation is generally an effect of chroma noise reduction. I'm actually really interested in seeing what this brings to the new K-1 because the KP seems to have some fairly significant improvement over the K-70 at higher ISOs.

---------- Post added 03-03-18 at 10:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Cherry blossom season starts in 4 weeks or so. So if they don't know, it aint coming.
Pentax is often very coy about when things are released. We likely won't know for sure its about to drop until a week or a few days before and the official "leaks" start trickling.

---------- Post added 03-03-18 at 10:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Cherry blossom season starts in 4 weeks or so. So if they don't know, it aint coming.
Pentax is often very coy about when things are released. We likely won't know for sure its about to drop until a week or a few days before and the official "leaks" start trickling.
03-03-2018, 09:13 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snakeisthestuff Quote
...The new pixelshift mode is taking pictures in interval mode with mechanical shutter and takes therefore longer than the real pixel shift. Which uses electronical shutter and is taking pictures faster in sequence (they confirmed this also)....
I like my K-1. It's biggest shortcoming for my usage is shutter/mirror shock; that doesn't make it a bad camera but limits resolution in some situations. If the Mark 2 has a similar amount of vibration from the shutter it might limit the practical usage of this new handheld pixelshift.
03-03-2018, 09:21 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by zosxavius Quote
But there are lots of situations where ISO 12,800 would be useful to have. I shoot a K-3 and 6400 is pretty much my absolute limit. I'll push the K-5 IIs into 8000 or more if I have to. The mark II is obviously not desaturating the image as much at high isos. That tells me the signal to noise ratio is higher because the desaturation is generally an effect of chroma noise reduction. I'm actually really interested in seeing what this brings to the new K-1 because the KP seems to have some fairly significant improvement over the K-70 at higher ISOs.

---------- Post added 03-03-18 at 10:58 AM ----------



Pentax is often very coy about when things are released. We likely won't know for sure its about to drop until a week or a few days before and the official "leaks" start trickling.

---------- Post added 03-03-18 at 10:58 AM ----------



Pentax is often very coy about when things are released. We likely won't know for sure its about to drop until a week or a few days before and the official "leaks" start trickling.
FWIW, when I was at my local pusher’s store a few days ago, it was mentioned that we could expect a K1 model replacement as early as late summer. They are bringing in a K1 MkII for me to compare images with the K1 as soon as they have it available. Nothing was said about a K3 model replacement, though I can’t see Pentax abandoning the APS-C platform to plastic bodied cameras.
I would comment on what I know about the 50mm lens release, but that would be off topic for this thread and I don’t have access to the thread that would allow me to post. Sorry.
03-03-2018, 09:26 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
I like my K-1. It's biggest shortcoming for my usage is shutter/mirror shock; that doesn't make it a bad camera but limits resolution in some situations. If the Mark 2 has a similar amount of vibration from the shutter it might limit the practical usage of this new handheld pixelshift.
Likely implementation is using EFCS in composite mode on the K1, but with the autoalign function of the HDR mode. Indeed, how exactly is the implementation on the K1 II is yet something to be figured out.
03-03-2018, 09:31 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
I like my K-1. It's biggest shortcoming for my usage is shutter/mirror shock; that doesn't make it a bad camera but limits resolution in some situations. If the Mark 2 has a similar amount of vibration from the shutter it might limit the practical usage of this new handheld pixelshift.
Are you having problems with shutter shock handheld? I tried valiantly to get my K1 to give me any noticeable shutter shock one time by mounting my A*600/5.6 on the thing and taking pictures of some power lines. I wasn’t able to get any badness, which might me because my big Feisol CF tripod and Wimberly gimbal was able to control it. Pentax vertical shutter bodies have long had bounce problems at midrange speeds in the 1/15-1/100 range. I recall my Super Program needed a 15 pound Zone VI tripod to tame it in this range.
However, I never noticed issues in handheld photography where the soft connection to the camera provided by my hands was dampening things.
My K3 had very bad shutter bounce when on a lightweight CF tripod, but handheld it was fine.
03-03-2018, 09:36 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
I like my K-1. It's biggest shortcoming for my usage is shutter/mirror shock; that doesn't make it a bad camera but limits resolution in some situations. If the Mark 2 has a similar amount of vibration from the shutter it might limit the practical usage of this new handheld pixelshift.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Are you having problems with shutter shock handheld? I tried valiantly to get my K1 to give me any noticeable shutter shock one time by mounting my A*600/5.6 on the thing and taking pictures of some power lines. I wasn’t able to get any badness, which might me because my big Feisol CF tripod and Wimberly gimbal was able to control it. Pentax vertical shutter bodies have long had bounce problems at midrange speeds in the 1/15-1/100 range. I recall my Super Program needed a 15 pound Zone VI tripod to tame it in this range.
I've found shutter shock on various cameras to be highly dependent on the lens and camera combo. With the K-3, I've noticed it more with wide angle lenses, but perhaps that's because most of my wide angle glass isn't particularly big and heavy.

We have members here who've repeatedly demonstrated shutter shock with the K-1 + 28-105 (again, interestingly enough, at the wide end)...
03-03-2018, 10:29 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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I'm most interested in the 3200 - 6400 ISO images and long exposures at base ISO.
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