The K-3 line will continue!

Racer X 69 · 03-04-2018, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Luckily, things here are mostly kept under control - but try the other forum...

No, thank you.

Been there, didn't like it.

Way too much drama.

Originally posted by Kunzite

The customer is often wrong.
If he's cooperative, find out what he wants, and if you can find a mutually beneficial solution do it. If he's uncooperative, ignore him.

Have the customer ordering you around, and you'll kill your business.

Any business is unwilling to serve me as a consumer of their product will find me looking elsewhere for satisfaction. I can't be the only person in the sea of consumers who has that point of view, in fact I know I am not alone.

Also, one unhappy customer can create more negative advertising for a business that 10,000 happy ones.

Businesses know this, and the successful ones embrace it.

Wheatfield · 03-04-2018, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

With respect, though, I don't believe Ricoh is aiming for greatness... I could be wrong, but I don't think so. It looks to me like it's trying to run and maintain a good, solid and somewhat individual digital camera and lens business that appeals to a certain type of photographer. A business that is profitable, of course, but of manageable size and risk relative to its wider business activities.

Some of the noise we get seems to be from those who want Pentax to be something it's not. That isn't necessarily a bad thing - we can all wish and hope for what we'd like - but I doubt it has any impact on Ricoh's corporate strategy

Kinda splitting hairs aren't we?
Anyway, can you reply to the question with an answer rather than a deflection?

---------- Post added 03-04-18 at 04:58 PM ----------

Originally posted by Kunzite

Wheatfield, you claimed: "It’s noise from the user base that spurs companies to bring new stuff to the market.". Support that claim; don't try to shift the burden of proof.

And obviously, companies are in the business to make a profit - not to gather most complaints.

Do I really have to prove it? I would have thought that would have been self evident.
is customer feedback important - Google Search

**BigMackCam** · 03-04-2018, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Kinda splitting hairs aren't we?
Anyway, can you reply to the question with an answer rather than a deflection?

I'm not splitting hairs at all, and your question wasn't even directed at me, Bill... I'm merely stating an opinion in a friendly and courteous way, and I'd hope in future I can expect the same courtesy from you in your responses (or alternatively, no response at all)...

**monochrome** · 03-04-2018, 04:15 PM - **4 Likes**

The question is whether the whiners are your customers - or even people you want as customers - or just whiners.

**clackers** · 03-04-2018, 04:23 PM - **5 Likes**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Do I really have to prove it? I would have thought that would have been self evident.
is customer feedback important - Google Search

I have been both involved in and organized some feedback/market research, and I can tell you that you don't listen to loud cranks, you rule them out as outliers and hope they don't put off the rest of the focus group. Someone with an axe to grind is to be ignored, or they distort the data.

Like an internet forum, right?

Kunzite · 03-04-2018, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Do I really have to prove it? I would have thought that would have been self evident.

Yes, you have to prove it or retract it. Your actual claim, that is: "It’s noise from the user base that spurs companies to bring new stuff to the market." - I noticed how your google query has nothing to do with it.
Of course you can't prove it, because it's pure nonsense. Would you retract it then? It doesn't look that way.

mee · 03-04-2018, 05:22 PM - **1 Like**

So what is the end game to this discussion... burn the critics at the stake or Dunk them in water and see if they float? It seems the negativity here to negativism is getting rather.. negative. That's ironical.

And calling people 'eeyores' isn't quite friendly in itself.. just a term to package and reduce people with whom you disagree. That's not right!

I think these long, multi-page threads on how a small, handful of vaguely and perceived negative people to be more 'harmful' to the brand than the few negative posts they possibly generate... whomever you think they are. I'm also sure if we asked everyone active on the forums, we'd all have a different top 3.

It seems it doesn't take much for some of us to become triggered over other opinions and derail the thread themselves, fighting these personal views as if they are arguing absolutes that will make or break the brand.. (it isn't life or death.. and we can agree to disagree?)

So can we pretty please with sugar lumps on top get back on track and just accept that not everyone is going to have the same PoV?

**BigMackCam** · 03-04-2018, 05:29 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mee

So what is the end game to this discussion... burn the critics at the stake or Dunk them in water and see if they float? It seems the negativity here to negativism is getting rather.. negative.

I think the end game is that everyone be constructive, whether in acclaim or criticism of what Ricoh is doing, and to be tolerant, courteous and respectful when we disagree. Of course, that's not always human nature, but we can aim for that and deal with it when it falls short

Originally posted by mee

So can we pretty please with sugar lumps on top get back on track and just accept that not everyone is going to have the same PoV?

I'm with you on that score!

mee · 03-04-2018, 05:58 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

I think the end game is that everyone be constructive, whether in acclaim or criticism of what Ricoh is doing, and to be tolerant, courteous and respectful when we disagree. Of course, that's not always human nature, but we can aim for that and deal with it when it falls short

I'm all for that. But it seems this thread and a few members are caught in a feedback loop for the past several pages.. over one persons post many pages back... sinking... slowly sinking.. glug.. glug.. glug.

Can we at least talk about Salsa. It is delicious... it goes with corn chips, tacos, chimichangas, tamales. I've even used it as a topping for chicken sandwiches

. Low fat, low calorie, high flavor.. can even eat it while arguing viewpoints on PentaxForums..

reh321 · 03-04-2018, 06:07 PM - **4 Likes**

This thread started off with what is supposed to be good news. Maybe those who have been waiting for a K-3ii follow up can celebrate, and the rest of us can just watch.

MegaPower · 03-04-2018, 06:27 PM

hopefully they can keep working on it.

Racer X 69 · 03-04-2018, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by mee

Can we at least talk about Salsa. It is delicious... it goes with corn chips, tacos, chimichangas, tamales. I've even used it as a topping for chicken sandwiches

. Low fat, low calorie, high flavor.. can even eat it while arguing viewpoints on PentaxForums..

Bacon?

mee · 03-04-2018, 08:00 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Racer X 69

Bacon?

Do you even have to ask?

**caliscouser** · 03-04-2018, 10:16 PM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by mee

So what is the end game to this discussion... burn the critics at the stake or Dunk them in water and see if they float? It seems the negativity here to negativism is getting rather.. negative. That's ironical. And calling people 'eeyores' isn't quite friendly in itself.. just a term to package and reduce people with whom you disagree. That's not right!

Couldn't agree more. There seem to be 3 or 4 rather unfriendly folks here that feel it is their job to monopolize these threads and crush any dissent from the party line.
I don't see any trolls here, just people with different ideas as to where Ricoh should be going.

As for the K-3 line continuing. Great news. I think it will be 2019. I believe it is well worth waiting for the latest BSI sensor technology.
By the way, the KP is very impressive. Unless you absolutely need the deeper buffer of the K-3 or the dual card slot then the KP is a really strong offering and is great value right now.

bxf · 03-05-2018, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by Racer X 69

Pentax/Ricoh never said it was.

My comment was aimed at those insisting that the KP was intended to be the new flagship.

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03-04-2018, 03:48 PM	#136
Racer X 69 Moderator Man With A Camera Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet, in the Land Between Canada and Mexico Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,073	Originally posted by Kunzite Luckily, things here are mostly kept under control - but try the other forum... No, thank you. Been there, didn't like it. Way too much drama. Originally posted by Kunzite The customer is often wrong. If he's cooperative, find out what he wants, and if you can find a mutually beneficial solution do it. If he's uncooperative, ignore him. Have the customer ordering you around, and you'll kill your business. Any business is unwilling to serve me as a consumer of their product will find me looking elsewhere for satisfaction. I can't be the only person in the sea of consumers who has that point of view, in fact I know I am not alone. Also, one unhappy customer can create more negative advertising for a business that 10,000 happy ones. Businesses know this, and the successful ones embrace it.

03-04-2018, 03:54 PM	#137
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by BigMackCam With respect, though, I don't believe Ricoh is aiming for greatness... I could be wrong, but I don't think so. It looks to me like it's trying to run and maintain a good, solid and somewhat individual digital camera and lens business that appeals to a certain type of photographer. A business that is profitable, of course, but of manageable size and risk relative to its wider business activities. Some of the noise we get seems to be from those who want Pentax to be something it's not. That isn't necessarily a bad thing - we can all wish and hope for what we'd like - but I doubt it has any impact on Ricoh's corporate strategy Kinda splitting hairs aren't we? Anyway, can you reply to the question with an answer rather than a deflection? ---------- Post added 03-04-18 at 04:58 PM ---------- Originally posted by Kunzite Wheatfield, you claimed: "It’s noise from the user base that spurs companies to bring new stuff to the market.". Support that claim; don't try to shift the burden of proof. And obviously, companies are in the business to make a profit - not to gather most complaints. Do I really have to prove it? I would have thought that would have been self evident. is customer feedback important - Google Search

03-04-2018, 04:04 PM	#138
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	Originally posted by Wheatfield Kinda splitting hairs aren't we? Anyway, can you reply to the question with an answer rather than a deflection? I'm not splitting hairs at all, and your question wasn't even directed at me, Bill... I'm merely stating an opinion in a friendly and courteous way, and I'd hope in future I can expect the same courtesy from you in your responses (or alternatively, no response at all)...

03-04-2018, 04:15 PM - 4 Likes	#139
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	The question is whether the whiners are your customers - or even people you want as customers - or just whiners.

03-04-2018, 04:23 PM - 5 Likes	#140
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Wheatfield Do I really have to prove it? I would have thought that would have been self evident. is customer feedback important - Google Search I have been both involved in and organized some feedback/market research, and I can tell you that you don't listen to loud cranks, you rule them out as outliers and hope they don't put off the rest of the focus group. Someone with an axe to grind is to be ignored, or they distort the data. Like an internet forum, right?

03-04-2018, 04:48 PM	#141
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Wheatfield Do I really have to prove it? I would have thought that would have been self evident. Yes, you have to prove it or retract it. Your actual claim, that is: "It’s noise from the user base that spurs companies to bring new stuff to the market." - I noticed how your google query has nothing to do with it. Of course you can't prove it, because it's pure nonsense. Would you retract it then? It doesn't look that way.

03-04-2018, 05:22 PM - 1 Like	#142
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	So what is the end game to this discussion... burn the critics at the stake or Dunk them in water and see if they float? It seems the negativity here to negativism is getting rather.. negative. That's ironical. And calling people 'eeyores' isn't quite friendly in itself.. just a term to package and reduce people with whom you disagree. That's not right! I think these long, multi-page threads on how a small, handful of vaguely and perceived negative people to be more 'harmful' to the brand than the few negative posts they possibly generate... whomever you think they are. I'm also sure if we asked everyone active on the forums, we'd all have a different top 3. It seems it doesn't take much for some of us to become triggered over other opinions and derail the thread themselves, fighting these personal views as if they are arguing absolutes that will make or break the brand.. (it isn't life or death.. and we can agree to disagree?) So can we pretty please with sugar lumps on top get back on track and just accept that not everyone is going to have the same PoV?

03-04-2018, 05:29 PM - 1 Like	#143
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,695	Originally posted by mee So what is the end game to this discussion... burn the critics at the stake or Dunk them in water and see if they float? It seems the negativity here to negativism is getting rather.. negative. I think the end game is that everyone be constructive, whether in acclaim or criticism of what Ricoh is doing, and to be tolerant, courteous and respectful when we disagree. Of course, that's not always human nature, but we can aim for that and deal with it when it falls short Originally posted by mee So can we pretty please with sugar lumps on top get back on track and just accept that not everyone is going to have the same PoV? I'm with you on that score!

03-04-2018, 05:58 PM - 1 Like	#144
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by BigMackCam I think the end game is that everyone be constructive, whether in acclaim or criticism of what Ricoh is doing, and to be tolerant, courteous and respectful when we disagree. Of course, that's not always human nature, but we can aim for that and deal with it when it falls short I'm all for that. But it seems this thread and a few members are caught in a feedback loop for the past several pages.. over one persons post many pages back... sinking... slowly sinking.. glug.. glug.. glug. Can we at least talk about Salsa. It is delicious... it goes with corn chips, tacos, chimichangas, tamales. I've even used it as a topping for chicken sandwiches . Low fat, low calorie, high flavor.. can even eat it while arguing viewpoints on PentaxForums..

03-04-2018, 06:07 PM - 4 Likes	#145
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,185	This thread started off with what is supposed to be good news. Maybe those who have been waiting for a K-3ii follow up can celebrate, and the rest of us can just watch.

03-04-2018, 06:27 PM	#146
MegaPower Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hong Kong / Irvine, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 636	hopefully they can keep working on it.

03-04-2018, 06:30 PM	#147
Racer X 69 Moderator Man With A Camera Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet, in the Land Between Canada and Mexico Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,073	Originally posted by mee Can we at least talk about Salsa. It is delicious... it goes with corn chips, tacos, chimichangas, tamales. I've even used it as a topping for chicken sandwiches . Low fat, low calorie, high flavor.. can even eat it while arguing viewpoints on PentaxForums.. Bacon?

03-04-2018, 08:00 PM - 1 Like	#148
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Racer X 69 Bacon? Do you even have to ask?

03-04-2018, 10:16 PM - 4 Likes	#149
caliscouser Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,037	Originally posted by mee So what is the end game to this discussion... burn the critics at the stake or Dunk them in water and see if they float? It seems the negativity here to negativism is getting rather.. negative. That's ironical. And calling people 'eeyores' isn't quite friendly in itself.. just a term to package and reduce people with whom you disagree. That's not right! Couldn't agree more. There seem to be 3 or 4 rather unfriendly folks here that feel it is their job to monopolize these threads and crush any dissent from the party line. I don't see any trolls here, just people with different ideas as to where Ricoh should be going. As for the K-3 line continuing. Great news. I think it will be 2019. I believe it is well worth waiting for the latest BSI sensor technology. By the way, the KP is very impressive. Unless you absolutely need the deeper buffer of the K-3 or the dual card slot then the KP is a really strong offering and is great value right now.

03-05-2018, 02:03 AM	#150
bxf Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lisbon area Posts: 1,660	Originally posted by Racer X 69 Pentax/Ricoh never said it was. My comment was aimed at those insisting that the KP was intended to be the new flagship.