Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-13-2018, 07:24 AM - 3 Likes   #181
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 28,987
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
But what about the guys who spend $1000 on a KP and put a $150 Pentax lens on it? Maybe a DA35 f/2.4 or DA50 f/1.5... are they cheap too? Not the kind of customers Pentax wants? If that's the case, should Pentax stop making all of its sub-$500 lenses and concentrate only on the premium stuff with bigger profit margins?



Aside from the profit on the K-1, not much - I agree. Of course, some people won't buy a K-1 in the first place because of limited third party lens support, and the resulting narrower choice. Then Pentax has made absolutely nothing from them.



I tend to look at it the other way around. Why shouldn't the guy who wants to buy into Pentax wish he could buy a 150-600 for it, when he can for Nikon, Canon, Sony etc. Tamron and Sigma aren't making lenses for Pentax - I get it, and accept it. I certainly don't complain about it, and frankly it doesn't bother me all that much. But if either company were to release a 150-600 in K-mount, I'd be in the queue.



Me neither. But there are plenty of people who own a Pentax camera who've gone looking for a particular type of lens, bought a Sigma (or Tamron) and been absolutely delighted with it. Count me in that group... I really like my Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 and 30mm f/1.4 Art. And my 18-300, whilst flawed like any superzoom, runs rings around the Pentax 18-270mm I used to own. And I have several Tamrons that I'm overjoyed with. It's all about options.



There's nothing wrong with people wanting access to lenses, and not everyone can afford to spend $400 on an additional body to use with one or two lenses. Not everyone wants to carry an additional body with them either. I see no hypocrisy in that. I don't like the continued negativity around lack of third party support for Pentax, though... It does get a little tiresome. We all know that support is very limited, and I'm sure we all realise that griping about it won't change anything. It just creates a negative atmosphere. So I'm not keen on that, for sure.



... except when they're not; like when a third party model offers the photographer access to decent (if not earth-shattering) optical performance in a desired focal length and aperture, at a price the user can afford, or at least justify - and when such a lens isn't available from the OEM.

I prefer OEM glass, but I have some great third party lenses for both Pentax and Sony. Would OEM lenses be any better? In some cases, certainly, but then I wouldn't have been able to afford and/or justify them.



Ouch. I hope that doesn't include those of us who don't complain, but still really like our Sigma glass?
Hey... it was a rant.... your not supposed to analyze it.

03-13-2018, 07:27 AM   #182
Senior Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 9,152
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Hey... it was a rant.... your not supposed to analyze it.
LOL

It was a pretty good rant, in all honesty
03-13-2018, 07:42 AM - 2 Likes   #183
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,320
Aside from Pentax increasing K-mount ILC market share to 10%, I’m at a loss to guess what they can do to force 3P mfgs to release the K-Mount lenses people purport to need.
03-13-2018, 07:53 AM   #184
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 28,987
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
LOL

It was a pretty good rant, in all honesty
I guess I should have a disclaimer... for entertainment value only
I actually love my Sigma 70 macro even if it's been displaced except for walks around the yard because of its weight and lack of WR. I do notice a difference I can't quantify between it and my Pentax glass, but in this case, it's a good difference.


Last edited by normhead; 03-13-2018 at 08:00 AM.
03-13-2018, 08:24 AM   #185
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 17,894
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
[snip for brevity]

Fine words, sir (and they really were)! Though I'm not sure how many parsnips they butter. Look, this is almost all a matter of taste and view. Some like Sigma or Tamron lenses, some don't. Some think Pentax can survive and prosper without third party support, some don't. Some like the big new FF reference lenses, some don't. Some can afford to spend $$$ on their kit, some can afford to spend only $. To me, it's all a pragmatic question of what works and what doesn't. So let's agree to differ and come back in 2020. If Pentax is on the right track with their approach, their overall performance should be better by then than it is today. This might be worth a modest punt in fact, but first I would have to find an edible hat ...

In the meantime, I'll be looking forward to some news of 24mm, 35mm, 50mm and 85mm equivalent f1.8 or f2 Limited prime lenses with modern motors et al, possibly also WR, for APS-C.
Sigma and Tamron and Tokina's support of the K mount isn't Pentax's concern. All they can do is build nice camera bodies, sell the number that they can build (no more and no less) and leave the rest up to the folks who are in charge at those various companies.

My guess is that Sigma just didn't sell a whole lot of their lenses in K mount. It isn't a problem to make K mount versions of your lenses -- unless they just sit around on store shelves and don't sell. Pentax has a tiny corner of the market and Sigma lenses have a tiny percent of that tiny percent. Probably a lot better for Sigma to get Nikon and Canon mounts out there than worry about the K mount.
03-13-2018, 09:08 AM   #186
Pentaxian
shiner's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N GA USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,585
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The question now is, is there ever going to be another PLM lens? From what I read, keeping that rear focusing element light enough to move with a stepper motor is quite the design limitation.
Well that's too bad, because it works so marvelously well. I wish all of my lenses had such a quiet, killer fast and accurate autofocus. Despite it's notchy zoom the 55-300 is an all-time fav for me
03-13-2018, 09:58 AM - 1 Like   #187
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,198
That is pure business from Sigma side to not be on K-mount market with new lenses. they do have 35/1,4 art, and there could be reason, why it was first and last to come with K-mount.

But, as I recon there might not be need for sigma lenses for long. Ricoh has been doing good solutions with co-op with Tokina and Tamron. Now, they can already start building Limited line, which has been quite a bit staying at sidelights/forgotten. From almost none modern FF lens line up they have most of it covered in reasonable time IMO if you think about size of the company. Hopefully they will also make something new for 645 format too.

it took several yrs. to come up with K-1.

now let's see if they will continue with FF limiteds now, or aps-c. as said before, FA lim. could do a little D-FA lim. makeover. and there is room for new ones too I'm personally more interested of little limiteds than big chunk 1,4 glass.

03-13-2018, 10:04 AM   #188
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,278
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sigma and Tamron and Tokina's support of the K mount isn't Pentax's concern. All they can do is build nice camera bodies, sell the number that they can build (no more and no less) and leave the rest up to the folks who are in charge at those various companies.

My guess is that Sigma just didn't sell a whole lot of their lenses in K mount. It isn't a problem to make K mount versions of your lenses -- unless they just sit around on store shelves and don't sell. Pentax has a tiny corner of the market and Sigma lenses have a tiny percent of that tiny percent. Probably a lot better for Sigma to get Nikon and Canon mounts out there than worry about the K mount.
As I suggested earlier, the answer is to take a look in a couple of years and see how Pentax are doing based on the approach that third-party solutions are unnecessary (and in some eyes unwelcome). Fair enough. We'll wait awhile.

03-13-2018, 10:50 AM   #189
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 17,894
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
As I suggested earlier, the answer is to take a look in a couple of years and see how Pentax are doing based on the approach that third-party solutions are unnecessary (and in some eyes unwelcome). Fair enough. We'll wait awhile.
I don't think anyone is saying "unnecessary." They are saying that third party options won't come without market share increase and that for whatever reason Pentaxians don't actually gravitate towards third party options if there are Pentax OEM options. Pentaxians tend to move in one of two directions -- one is those who buy ancient (cheap?) lenses to mount on their new cameras and gloat about the deals they got on lenses at Good Will. The other group buys mostly new Pentax lenses is looking for new FA limiteds and DFA * lenses. Neither one is very interested in Sigma options.
03-13-2018, 11:00 AM   #190
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,163
Let me think in positive terms. Pentax has a lot of plans and some of their ideas have no place on the roadmap. Upgrade of FA Ltds will not appear on the roadmap, as everyone would wait for the new glass. Similarly revamped 200/300mm + TC probably won't show up on the roadmap. So in happy land, Pentax is preparing a lot of new stuff right now. What they talk about sounds good and is positive. The only little probelm is that within the last two years, not much was released w.r.t to lenses that were on the road map. And not much happened since Tokina sold Pentax. Things take time, but nobody likes to wait. So either something big is happening soon, or the wait will continue.
Someone may want to tell Pentax that product announcement should be made shortly before release - a roadmap is an announcement.
03-13-2018, 11:06 AM - 3 Likes   #191
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2013
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 319
Let me start by saying that I've never bought a Sigma lens in my life. However, I have bought all my lenses used up to now (since I don't make money from my photos and don't really aspire to), and that included one Rokinon, a CZJ, and some Contax Zeisses. So I may still fall into the category of "pretty cheap" people Norm is talking about.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I have honestly never heard of a single Pentax user who bought his Pentax to put a Sigma lens on. I have only heard folks making the rather dubious claim that they would buy this or that lens if it was available for Pentax. Because it's cheap.
I didn't even buy my Pentax to put a Pentax lens on. I don't think I even did any research into the lens lineup before buying my K-30, besides maybe a cursory glance to verify that the selection was decent. So why did I buy it? Because it was unbeatable value for money, a moderately priced body with actual useful features Nikon/Sony/Canon couldn't touch in that range. (I especially miss the weather sealing, now that I've discovered that my 5D won't even turn on at 32F -- AKA an average winter evening here in New Jersey.)

People just getting into ILCs and trying to decide on their first system are not necessarily going to have any idea what lenses they like, or even what lenses are the best reasons to shoot each system. It's easier to compare specs on bodies, even to get a bunch in your hands and compare how well you get along with them, BEFORE buying, than to compare the output of lenses. I eventually did get three Limiteds -- the DA 21, the FA 43, and the FA 77 -- but they wouldn't even have been on my radar if I hadn't been attracted to Pentax in the first place by the body.

And for a concrete example of filling a hole in the Pentax lineup: I got the Rokinon 35/1.4 for indoors because I'd never be able to justify the cost of the FA 31 Limited... that, and a great deal on one came up sooner than a Sigma 30/1.4 EX. If Pentax had had a normal APS-C lens that fast at a similar price, I absolutely would have bought it in a heartbeat.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Honestly, you can get a Nikon D5200 or a Canon TI with kit lens for $400. Them put any Sigma or Tamon lens you want on it. Find the lens you want and buy the body it goes on. Then for $1000 buy a Sigma 150-600 or whatever...

Why do these folks come on the forum and try our patience, for $400. Pentax knows, if you didn't spend $400 for a body that goes with the lens you want, there is simply no money to be made selling camera gear to you.
See above. Ergonomics, sensor performance, features, ruggedness, all for less -- those are why I chose Pentax, and the Limiteds were purely a bonus. I still don't particularly want any Sigma or Tamron lenses, but if I did, I'm sure it wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable an experience shooting them on a Nikon or Canon as on a Pentax.


I'm not sure why I spent so much time typing up all this -- maybe to try to answer the question "why are such people on the forum"? I don't pretend to be representative of the average new entrant to the Pentax system, and I'm sure some people reading this will consider my aperture block failure to be exactly the cosmic justice I deserved for buying cheap, and I'm sure some other people reading this are getting sick of reading so many first-person pronouns. But just consider it another data point of anecdotal evidence. I can't be the only young beginner amateur who went Pentax for value, can I?
03-13-2018, 11:08 AM   #192
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,015
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You just have to look. Compare this to the Pentax FA*24mm
http://www.opticallimits.com/pentax/121-pentax-smc-fa-24mm-f2-al-if-review--...report?start=1





At 24 MP Nikkor AF-S 24mm f/1.4 G ED = 3704 lw/ph (tested on the D7200) Nikkor AF-S 24mm f/1.8 G ED (DX) - Review / Test Report - Analysis

Higher resolution on a D7200 than you can get on a Pentax with a K-1. That's what Pentax are going for. "Modern lenses for moderns sensors."

This isn't a great negative comparison; the FA* 24 was tested on a 10mp camera, not a 24mp one; and both the lenses performed in the "very good" to "excellent" range as the side rating scale in the reviews indicate.
03-13-2018, 11:14 AM - 4 Likes   #193
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
THoog's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North Carolina
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,542
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Aside from Pentax increasing K-mount ILC market share to 10%, Im at a loss to guess what they can do to force 3P mfgs to release the K-Mount lenses people purport to need.
"Nice optical factory you've got here - very clean, very modern. We sure would hate to see something bad happen to it..."

Maybe Olympus can help - weren't they rumored to have friends in "the business"?
03-13-2018, 11:15 AM - 1 Like   #194
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,198
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
As I suggested earlier, the answer is to take a look in a couple of years and see how Pentax are doing based on the approach that third-party solutions are unnecessary (and in some eyes unwelcome). Fair enough. We'll wait awhile.
There is two kind of welcome/unwelcome things about those thirdparty offers/lack of it. I would think that there is little what Ricoh could do to make it good for them both. Especially when Sigma shows no interest at the moment. Maybe when Pentax has finished popular lenses lineup, Sigma will evaluate their market possibility again to compete with Pentax. that is what they are doing now with Can/nik/Son... not complete, compete with offerings.

That is actually what Sony is trying to do with Canon and Nikon really agressivelly, compete, they want to take them out. It is not just to have one more option more.

That is something what lures people to M4/3 cameras too. Good quality, little smaller size, good enough image quality, weather resistant, you name it. But still it is not just one more option. it is money.
03-13-2018, 11:25 AM   #195
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,507
Since Tokina what? Sold Pentax? Rotfl
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
35mm, 43mm, art, camera, eye, fa, fa 43mm f/1.9, fa limiteds, fullframe, interview, lens, lens line-up, lenses, limiteds, line, macro, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, pentax smc fa, price, reason, sigma, view
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
More, more, more light!!! Grig Monthly Photo Contests 5 01-10-2018 02:21 AM
More and More Lenses Can Be Adapted To Pentax K Mount Fenwoodian Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 10 07-13-2017 07:36 PM
DA15 Limited vs DA21 Limited - more versatile "walkaround" lens debate continues madison_wi_gal Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 80 03-07-2017 06:11 PM
Lenses, lenses, and more lenses, a camera (or 2) and a camera bag? krs Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 11 01-04-2009 04:11 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:43 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top