More Limited lenses

deus ursus · 03-07-2018, 10:47 AM

I've become quite fond of my M 120/2.8. A Limited version of that lens would be nice. The focal length works quite nice on crop for candid portraits, and the size or lack thereof makes it less intimidating than what say an 85/1.4 or a135/1.8 would be.

Kunzite · 03-07-2018, 10:52 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by zapp

I like what I see on Pentax road maps, but it would be nice if lenses could materialize. Otherwise stop road mapping.

Lenses will materialize.
I'd rather not be kept completely in the dark, and have some idea about what they're working on. Complete silence would also send the PentaxIsDoomed brigade into a FUD frenzy.

zapp · 03-07-2018, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Lenses will materialize.
I'd rather not be kept completely in the dark, and have some idea about what they're working on. Complete silence would also send the PentaxIsDoomed brigade into a FUD frenzy.

Agreed, but it feels weird to start discussion on new lines of lenses considering that Pentax has not delivered any of the roadmap lenses from 2016 yet. A road map is a promise and if you cannot keep your promise, you should not make new promises.
The road map for alarge aperture primes was accepted. Pentax also listened to friends of medium aperture, small footprint lenses (there key selling point with APS-C). FF TC, f/4 tele zoom, a bunch of Ltd. Well good enough. bring it on, I am ready.

**Pål Jensen** · 03-07-2018, 11:53 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by monochrome

The idea of new D FA Limiteds with pixies inside (what’s their stock of pixies?) is intriguing. But what happens to the Three Princesses?

They will be discontinued at some stage and turned into legends...

---------- Post added 03-07-18 at 07:54 PM ----------

Originally posted by Kunzite

Sooo... do we start the "D FA Limiteds are Tokina/Tamron/Sigma" now? We're bored already with the D FA*s?

Not likely as they don't have pixie dust.

Kunzite · 03-07-2018, 12:26 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by zapp

Agreed, but it feels weird to start discussion on new lines of lenses considering that Pentax has not delivered any of the roadmap lenses from 2016 yet. A road map is a promise and if you cannot keep your promise, you should not make new promises.
The road map for alarge aperture primes was accepted. Pentax also listened to friends of medium aperture, small footprint lenses (there key selling point with APS-C). FF TC, f/4 tele zoom, a bunch of Ltd. Well good enough. bring it on, I am ready.

Think about it from this perspective: if, after a year of silence (lens-wise), they'd cancel the roadmap, what would we see on this forum, and pretty much everywhere on the Internet?
Yes: that Pentax is doomed, all lens development is canceled and everything will be closed down. Even if that wouldn't be remotely true. We'd be promptly reminded of the Nikkei article, and FUD will be spread like never before.

The roadmap is even more necessary after this period of silence. It's not a firm promise but a declaration of intentions: "this is what we're working on". I want some of the stuff they're working on.
And Ricoh delivers.

thibs · 03-07-2018, 01:41 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by zapp

A road map is a promise and if you cannot keep your promise, you should not make new promises.

Nope. We can agree to disagree but to me a roadmap is NOT a promise.
It is what they currently plan on doing and in what time order. Nothing else.

angerdan · 03-07-2018, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

But, how many are still praising them? Compare that with the Sigma Art...
Low resolution in the corners and high levels of CA is not acceptable, for a 2020 design.
This is entirely within Pentax/Ricoh Imaging's abilities; the D FA* 50mm f/1.4 promises do excel in both regards.

Regarding to the number of reviews and the Pentax Lens survey, most are stickung to FA Limiteds.
SMC Pentax-FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited Reviews - FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM (Art) Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database
Pentax Lens Tournament | PentaxForums.com
Lens Tournament Knockout Stage - Pentax Lens Tournament | PentaxForums.com

Keeping the dimensions of the lens in focus, the optical results are good. CA's are nearly as low as with the much more complex Sigma 35mm Art optical design.
Pentax SMC FA 43mm f/1.9 Limited - Lab Test / Review - Analysis
Sigma AF 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM | A ("Art") (Nikon DX) - Review / Test Report - Analysis

Originally posted by zapp

I am looking at the roadmap from the release days of K1 - none of the lenses listed for 2017 or later has been released yet.
The D-FA 50 is close,, but not here yet, no specs, no price, no date.

The only lens on the roadmap as of 2016 was the then unrevealed DA* 11-18mm. In 2017 all lenses are planned for 2018 or later.
The D FA* 50mm is announced for spring 2018. Specs has been announced in the press release (KAF4, AW, 0,4m minimum shooting distance, new SDM, 830g...) and at CP+.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/340781-dfa-50-1-4-...ml#post4172275

Originally posted by monochrome

The idea of new D FA Limiteds with pixies inside (what’s their stock of pixies?) is intriguing. But what happens to the Three Princesses?

They could use an upgrade like HD D FA x x WR, keeping the optical formula and adding HD, QS + WR.
http://www.pentax.com/en/k-1/challengers/challengers06.html

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

They will be discontinued at some stage and turned into legends....

Hopefully not, remembers of Jun Hirakawa. There are still lens designs not used yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun_Hirakawa

Last edited by angerdan; 03-07-2018 at 02:48 PM.

robjmitchell · 03-07-2018, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Their last film camera was launched in 2003. It's time to stop being stuck to the distant past.
The FA Limiteds were designed for a style which was current back then, and to work with cameras that were current models. Today, as monochrome noted, such lenses won't see much praise.

I disagree. The 31 and 77 are still strong (apart from CA) by todays standard. They are sharp wide open, unlike the 43. Their corner performance is still very good, and combined with beautiful rendering in a small sexy package they would continue to serve as great lenses with minimal optimisation.

The 43 on the over hand should be viewed as a pancake lense where size has been traded for IQ. It still has its place, although photographers do need something better optically, and they are getting it with the DFA*50.

**pres589** · 03-07-2018, 01:57 PM

I wonder if the old M 85 f2.0 optics could be dusted off and re-used as a Limited. HD coatings, rounded aperture blades, DC focusing... It seems to render nicely from what I've seen, and if I end up with a film kit I think I'd like to try a copy. Some pixie dust and small size, what else is really required for the Ltd. badge?

Kunzite · 03-07-2018, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by angerdan

Pentax SMC FA 43mm f/1.9 Limited - Lab Test / Review - Analysis

What are you showing me here, very poor border performance even on APS-C?

---------- Post added 07-03-18 at 10:58 PM ----------

Originally posted by robjmitchell

I disagree. The 31 and 77 are still strong (apart from CA)

All right, let's stop at this point.

Winder · 03-07-2018, 02:01 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by zapp

I am looking at the roadmap from the release days of K1 - none of the lenses listed for 2017 or later has been released yet. The D-FA 50 is close,, but not here yet, no specs, no price, no date.
I like what I see on Pentax road maps, but it would be nice if lenses could materialize. Otherwise stop road mapping.

I'm pretty sure the road map is created every year at the annual Christmas party. Marketing gets drunk and plays "pin the lens on the calendar". Its the one day of the year where engineering and R&D and actually allowed to communicate marketing. Once classes start back up everyone goes back to school and all the projects get put on hold until summer break.

robjmitchell · 03-07-2018, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

What are you showing me here, very poor border performance even on APS-C?

---------- Post added 07-03-18 at 10:58 PM ----------

All right, let's stop at this point.

I’m not saying the limiteds are competing optically with modern F1.4 lenses, instead they should be viewed as a premium F1.8 product and judged accordingly. Updated slightly to control CA/PF better, DC/PLM and a WR with quick shift body and you still have a set of great lightweight lenses that beat anything out there at F1.8. (Except 43) Good Bokeh is much more valuable in a fast lens than corner sharpness wide open.

Kunzite · 03-07-2018, 02:20 PM

And I'm not saying they're some useless pieces of *&@#

**twilhelm** · 03-07-2018, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Tatouzou

No, I think Asahi man was realy speaking of the 17-70 f4 SDM, I have it and it is a very nice piece of glass, not WR but there is obviously a rubber seal on the mount.

While the 17-70 is a good lens (I’ve had mine for years and done many jobs with it) it is nowhere near a “Limited” lens. He referred to DC motor and zoom, which only leaves the 20-40 (which is also WR).

At this point I think we’d all like to see a few new FF lenses, whether they are Limiteds, DFA* or simply DFA. I prefer smaller, but that doesn’t suit every lens or everyone.

wkraus · 03-07-2018, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

My take: D FA24/2.8 Limited; D FA20/2.8 Limited; D FA85/1.8 Limited; D FA35/2 Limited; D FA55/1.8 Limited. A set of standard primes in metal and finely finished with DC motors. KAF4. They have the designs to start from. They’re small. They don’t need to be particularly fast. They don’t need to be perfect. They can use in-camera lens corrections.

I’d bet the film era FA Limited designs are ended when the current batch is sold out.

Originally posted by Quicksand

As have I! I'd love, for example, a 19mm f/2.6 (hey, it's Pentax so it's gotta be weird) D-FA Limited prime.

I concur. Make that 19mm f/2.6, 23mm f/2.5, 83mm f/1.9 (great heritage here), 133 f/2.3. A 55mm f/1.8 only if named and styled Takumar-D FA...

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03-07-2018, 10:47 AM	#46
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	I've become quite fond of my M 120/2.8. A Limited version of that lens would be nice. The focal length works quite nice on crop for candid portraits, and the size or lack thereof makes it less intimidating than what say an 85/1.4 or a135/1.8 would be.

03-07-2018, 10:52 AM - 1 Like	#47
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by zapp I like what I see on Pentax road maps, but it would be nice if lenses could materialize. Otherwise stop road mapping. Lenses will materialize. I'd rather not be kept completely in the dark, and have some idea about what they're working on. Complete silence would also send the PentaxIsDoomed brigade into a FUD frenzy.

03-07-2018, 11:36 AM	#48
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Originally posted by Kunzite Lenses will materialize. I'd rather not be kept completely in the dark, and have some idea about what they're working on. Complete silence would also send the PentaxIsDoomed brigade into a FUD frenzy. Agreed, but it feels weird to start discussion on new lines of lenses considering that Pentax has not delivered any of the roadmap lenses from 2016 yet. A road map is a promise and if you cannot keep your promise, you should not make new promises. The road map for alarge aperture primes was accepted. Pentax also listened to friends of medium aperture, small footprint lenses (there key selling point with APS-C). FF TC, f/4 tele zoom, a bunch of Ltd. Well good enough. bring it on, I am ready.

03-07-2018, 11:53 AM - 2 Likes	#49
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome The idea of new D FA Limiteds with pixies inside (what’s their stock of pixies?) is intriguing. But what happens to the Three Princesses? They will be discontinued at some stage and turned into legends... ---------- Post added 03-07-18 at 07:54 PM ---------- Originally posted by Kunzite Sooo... do we start the "D FA Limiteds are Tokina/Tamron/Sigma" now? We're bored already with the D FA*s? Not likely as they don't have pixie dust.

03-07-2018, 12:26 PM - 1 Like	#50
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by zapp Agreed, but it feels weird to start discussion on new lines of lenses considering that Pentax has not delivered any of the roadmap lenses from 2016 yet. A road map is a promise and if you cannot keep your promise, you should not make new promises. The road map for alarge aperture primes was accepted. Pentax also listened to friends of medium aperture, small footprint lenses (there key selling point with APS-C). FF TC, f/4 tele zoom, a bunch of Ltd. Well good enough. bring it on, I am ready. Think about it from this perspective: if, after a year of silence (lens-wise), they'd cancel the roadmap, what would we see on this forum, and pretty much everywhere on the Internet? Yes: that Pentax is doomed, all lens development is canceled and everything will be closed down. Even if that wouldn't be remotely true. We'd be promptly reminded of the Nikkei article, and FUD will be spread like never before. The roadmap is even more necessary after this period of silence. It's not a firm promise but a declaration of intentions: "this is what we're working on". I want some of the stuff they're working on. And Ricoh delivers.

03-07-2018, 01:41 PM - 3 Likes	#51
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by zapp A road map is a promise and if you cannot keep your promise, you should not make new promises. Nope. We can agree to disagree but to me a roadmap is NOT a promise. It is what they currently plan on doing and in what time order. Nothing else.

03-07-2018, 01:45 PM	#52
angerdan Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,639	Originally posted by Kunzite But, how many are still praising them? Compare that with the Sigma Art... Low resolution in the corners and high levels of CA is not acceptable, for a 2020 design. This is entirely within Pentax/Ricoh Imaging's abilities; the D FA* 50mm f/1.4 promises do excel in both regards. Regarding to the number of reviews and the Pentax Lens survey, most are stickung to FA Limiteds. SMC Pentax-FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited Reviews - FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM (Art) Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database Pentax Lens Tournament \| PentaxForums.com Lens Tournament Knockout Stage - Pentax Lens Tournament \| PentaxForums.com Keeping the dimensions of the lens in focus, the optical results are good. CA's are nearly as low as with the much more complex Sigma 35mm Art optical design. Pentax SMC FA 43mm f/1.9 Limited - Lab Test / Review - Analysis Sigma AF 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM \| A ("Art") (Nikon DX) - Review / Test Report - Analysis Originally posted by zapp I am looking at the roadmap from the release days of K1 - none of the lenses listed for 2017 or later has been released yet. The D-FA 50 is close,, but not here yet, no specs, no price, no date. The only lens on the roadmap as of 2016 was the then unrevealed DA* 11-18mm. In 2017 all lenses are planned for 2018 or later. The D FA* 50mm is announced for spring 2018. Specs has been announced in the press release (KAF4, AW, 0,4m minimum shooting distance, new SDM, 830g...) and at CP+. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/340781-dfa-50-1-4-...ml#post4172275 Originally posted by monochrome The idea of new D FA Limiteds with pixies inside (what’s their stock of pixies?) is intriguing. But what happens to the Three Princesses? They could use an upgrade like HD D FA x x WR, keeping the optical formula and adding HD, QS + WR. http://www.pentax.com/en/k-1/challengers/challengers06.html Originally posted by Pål Jensen They will be discontinued at some stage and turned into legends.... Hopefully not, remembers of Jun Hirakawa. There are still lens designs not used yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun_Hirakawa Last edited by angerdan; 03-07-2018 at 02:48 PM.

03-07-2018, 01:55 PM	#53
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by Kunzite Their last film camera was launched in 2003. It's time to stop being stuck to the distant past. The FA Limiteds were designed for a style which was current back then, and to work with cameras that were current models. Today, as monochrome noted, such lenses won't see much praise. I disagree. The 31 and 77 are still strong (apart from CA) by todays standard. They are sharp wide open, unlike the 43. Their corner performance is still very good, and combined with beautiful rendering in a small sexy package they would continue to serve as great lenses with minimal optimisation. The 43 on the over hand should be viewed as a pancake lense where size has been traded for IQ. It still has its place, although photographers do need something better optically, and they are getting it with the DFA*50.

03-07-2018, 01:57 PM	#54
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	I wonder if the old M 85 f2.0 optics could be dusted off and re-used as a Limited. HD coatings, rounded aperture blades, DC focusing... It seems to render nicely from what I've seen, and if I end up with a film kit I think I'd like to try a copy. Some pixie dust and small size, what else is really required for the Ltd. badge?

03-07-2018, 01:58 PM	#55
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by angerdan Pentax SMC FA 43mm f/1.9 Limited - Lab Test / Review - Analysis What are you showing me here, very poor border performance even on APS-C? ---------- Post added 07-03-18 at 10:58 PM ---------- Originally posted by robjmitchell I disagree. The 31 and 77 are still strong (apart from CA) All right, let's stop at this point.

03-07-2018, 02:01 PM - 1 Like	#56
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by zapp I am looking at the roadmap from the release days of K1 - none of the lenses listed for 2017 or later has been released yet. The D-FA 50 is close,, but not here yet, no specs, no price, no date. I like what I see on Pentax road maps, but it would be nice if lenses could materialize. Otherwise stop road mapping. I'm pretty sure the road map is created every year at the annual Christmas party. Marketing gets drunk and plays "pin the lens on the calendar". Its the one day of the year where engineering and R&D and actually allowed to communicate marketing. Once classes start back up everyone goes back to school and all the projects get put on hold until summer break.

03-07-2018, 02:11 PM	#57
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by Kunzite What are you showing me here, very poor border performance even on APS-C? ---------- Post added 07-03-18 at 10:58 PM ---------- All right, let's stop at this point. I’m not saying the limiteds are competing optically with modern F1.4 lenses, instead they should be viewed as a premium F1.8 product and judged accordingly. Updated slightly to control CA/PF better, DC/PLM and a WR with quick shift body and you still have a set of great lightweight lenses that beat anything out there at F1.8. (Except 43) Good Bokeh is much more valuable in a fast lens than corner sharpness wide open.

03-07-2018, 02:20 PM	#58
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	And I'm not saying they're some useless pieces of *&@#

03-07-2018, 02:36 PM	#59
twilhelm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,369	Originally posted by Tatouzou No, I think Asahi man was realy speaking of the 17-70 f4 SDM, I have it and it is a very nice piece of glass, not WR but there is obviously a rubber seal on the mount. While the 17-70 is a good lens (I’ve had mine for years and done many jobs with it) it is nowhere near a “Limited” lens. He referred to DC motor and zoom, which only leaves the 20-40 (which is also WR). At this point I think we’d all like to see a few new FF lenses, whether they are Limiteds, DFA* or simply DFA. I prefer smaller, but that doesn’t suit every lens or everyone.

03-07-2018, 02:37 PM	#60
wkraus Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Near Vienna, Austria Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,060	Originally posted by monochrome My take: D FA24/2.8 Limited; D FA20/2.8 Limited; D FA85/1.8 Limited; D FA35/2 Limited; D FA55/1.8 Limited. A set of standard primes in metal and finely finished with DC motors. KAF4. They have the designs to start from. They’re small. They don’t need to be particularly fast. They don’t need to be perfect. They can use in-camera lens corrections. I’d bet the film era FA Limited designs are ended when the current batch is sold out. Originally posted by Quicksand As have I! I'd love, for example, a 19mm f/2.6 (hey, it's Pentax so it's gotta be weird) D-FA Limited prime. I concur. Make that 19mm f/2.6, 23mm f/2.5, 83mm f/1.9 (great heritage here), 133 f/2.3. A 55mm f/1.8 only if named and styled Takumar-D FA...