Update on the optical scheme of the new HD PENTAX-D FA 50mm f/1.4 SDM AW

x4rd · 04-27-2018, 01:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Buckeyemikie

The attached images seek to show what the DA* 50 images look like taken by my K-1. Peekaboo wall3 is from inside the canyon at the Moqui steps (estimated to be 600 to 1000 years old). They were carved by ancient Puebloans to reach a granary higher up the canyon wall. Peekaboo wall one is the rock garden wall cropped slightly to a 2:3 aspect ratio in Lightroom. Wall1-2 is the same image cropped to approximate a 3:1 enlargement.

I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution!

**Rondec** · 04-27-2018, 02:35 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by x4rd

I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution!

Kerrick is a landscape photographer and as such he probably seldom shoots images at f1.4 and f2. We really need to wait for other folks who shoot with wider apertures. Landscape photos shot at f1.4 aren't typically very good just because not enough of the landscape is in focus, regardless of the lenses used.

**clackers** · 04-27-2018, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by x4rd

I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution!

The DA*55 is the biggest fifty Pentax ever made, x4rd, this DFA* will be even bigger, so don't worry, the MTF curves will be the best, and as for the bokeh, it'll have nine rounded aperture blades.

You'll get to see all the pictures taken by fellow forum members who've whined for months now about how the DFA has been delayed and they can't buy it yet.

The first sample photo Ricoh released from the preproduction models was thought to be this one:

??????? / HD PENTAX-D FA?50mm F1.4 SDM... - ?????? (PENTAX by RICOH IMAGING) | Facebook

Reed · 04-27-2018, 03:14 AM

Agreed Mr.Clackers, but, what is the purpose to for example test fast F1.4 lens auto focus behavior on a landscape shots by the aperture of F8 and slower? This is new development, so it might not be the case in this one. But I would like to get more info about that, not again the whine, as was with the 55/1.4 it is great but auto focus seemed to be weakest point of it when it was released, later greatly improved by lens eprom firmware updates- that are almost impossible to be made by typical user without sending it to repair center. Same case was seen with the 16-50, or 50-135, more recent copies ware very accurate, older ones when given the firmware copied from the newer production runs also started to work accurately. So that was not the mechanical issues(part of first gen SDM motor issues, not related IMO). I've reflashed a tottaly point and miss 16-50/2.8 to perfectly working order by simply using the debug menu and flashing the older firmware with the new one from more recent production run. So, if field test are to be made, it should test lens in most extreme target situations and light conditions, not all around F.8 performance. That was obviously omitted with old Star lens series

**clackers** · 04-27-2018, 03:39 AM - **4 Likes**

Originally posted by Reed

Agreed Mr.Clackers, but, what is the purpose to for example test fast F1.4 lens auto focus behavior on a landscape shots by the aperture of F8 and slower?

Reed, the lens hasn't been released yet, it isn't even in production. Everything so far is prototypes, and the testers themselves aren't allowed to release RAW files.

You can shoot your way when you get it, Kerrick is a landscape professional and shoots his way.

I've never had a problem with the DA*55 focus, by the way, other than it's slow. It takes beautiful pictures, because it's a Hirakawa design, and that's what matters to me, I use other lenses for sport and action:

x4rd · 04-27-2018, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by clackers

The DA*55 is the biggest fifty Pentax ever made, x4rd, this DFA* will be even bigger, so don't worry, the MTF curves will be the best, and as for the bokeh, it'll have nine rounded aperture blades. You'll get to see all the pictures taken by fellow forum members who've whined for months now about how the DFA has been delayed and they can't buy it yet.

I know the characteristics and big hopes concerning this lens. Therefore I could understand this approach in terms of 35/1.4 or wider. 50 is a standard, not really for landscapes, not really for portraits for FF. Having that in mind, thus knowing that we are dealing with fast /1.4 glass, guys from marketing department should in my opinion brief influencers (ambassadors) that they should provide couple of wide open f stop pictures for folks that are eager to buy this product for low light photography.

My point is - there is little need to market and tease fast lens giving the audience hyperfocal imaginery.

**pres589** · 04-27-2018, 06:32 AM

Nice images, clackers. I always like how well-shot pictures come out with the DA*55. They have this slightly "painted" look like some of the old Takumars seem to produce. Maybe someday I'll own a copy of this lens.

I do find the D-FA*50 images that Kerrick shared a bit odd for showing off what the lens could do. That said, at least there's someone else out there that's used the thing and can share with us their opinions. He did his shots his way; I hope others will start sharing their shots and their impressions of the lens as it gets closer and closer to market. And not every shot has to have a pile of out-of-focus field depth blur happening. Sharpness stopped down is important, too.

Looking forward to getting some serious test comparisons between all of the 50's (and the *55) that you can buy and slide onto a K-1 or KP new today when this lens hits shelves.

Kunzite · 04-27-2018, 06:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by x4rd

I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution!

I find it curious that test images are seen as "proper", while actual photographs are not

x4rd · 04-27-2018, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I find it curious that test images are seen as "proper", while actual photographs are not

To specify: "proper" = showing the potential of the lens ALSO in terms of OOF rendering, and the ability to maintain high sharpness on wider apertures. I hope that I explained this right.

**Rondec** · 04-27-2018, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Reed

Agreed Mr.Clackers, but, what is the purpose to for example test fast F1.4 lens auto focus behavior on a landscape shots by the aperture of F8 and slower? This is new development, so it might not be the case in this one. But I would like to get more info about that, not again the whine, as was with the 55/1.4 it is great but auto focus seemed to be weakest point of it when it was released, later greatly improved by lens eprom firmware updates- that are almost impossible to be made by typical user without sending it to repair center. Same case was seen with the 16-50, or 50-135, more recent copies ware very accurate, older ones when given the firmware copied from the newer production runs also started to work accurately. So that was not the mechanical issues(part of first gen SDM motor issues, not related IMO). I've reflashed a tottaly point and miss 16-50/2.8 to perfectly working order by simply using the debug menu and flashing the older firmware with the new one from more recent production run. So, if field test are to be made, it should test lens in most extreme target situations and light conditions, not all around F.8 performance. That was obviously omitted with old Star lens series

F1.4 lenses can (and will) be shot down at some points. I think things like colors, contrast, flare resistance are all at least as important in shooting a lens as is sharpness wide open. That may sound blasphemous to say, but there are plenty of lenses that are tack sharp, even wide open that I don't find have appealing rendering.

Regardless, there will be other folks who shoot portraits and things like that and they will be releasing images as well. If I had a copy of this lens, my guess is I would be shooting it stopped down as well, because I shoot a lot of landscapes and it doesn't do much good to have a super sharp lens if only 8 inches of your landscape is "super sharp."

Reed · 04-27-2018, 08:29 AM

Well then its not a necessary to use a F1.4 lens. I would preffer to use some corner to corner sharp macro F2.8 lens for that case if we stay at this focal length. I do find Mr. Kerrick James work interesting, but not necessarily a usefull field to test that kind of new product.

**pres589** · 04-27-2018, 09:28 AM

Who said he was out there to field test this specific lens? I read this as a "I got to briefly borrow this new lens while out doing my own thing and had my own lens with me at the time which aids in making comparisons".

It's Friday and nobody is having fun?

repaap · 04-27-2018, 09:29 AM

those 1,4 shots will come. that is fir sure. people has already ’stress tests’ nightmare situations ready for fast lenses. bench mark is made by Otus, with premium prize. and 50/1,4 ART. Don’t worry..it will be soon.

**Buckeyemikie** · 04-27-2018, 12:56 PM - **5 Likes**

The images I posted using the DA*50 in Peekaboo canyon were MY images, not Kerrick's. I used it as I would any other lens in that environment and was very pleased with its results. I didn't have the intent to test it wide open. Any other benefits the lens may provide wide open would add to my desire to buy one.

---------- Post added 04-27-18 at 04:02 PM ----------

Thank you pres589, for correctly noting I was the shooter & just reporting my results which I thought might be of interest to Pentaxians.

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04-27-2018, 01:51 AM - 1 Like	#31
x4rd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 241	Originally posted by Buckeyemikie The attached images seek to show what the DA* 50 images look like taken by my K-1. Peekaboo wall3 is from inside the canyon at the Moqui steps (estimated to be 600 to 1000 years old). They were carved by ancient Puebloans to reach a granary higher up the canyon wall. Peekaboo wall one is the rock garden wall cropped slightly to a 2:3 aspect ratio in Lightroom. Wall1-2 is the same image cropped to approximate a 3:1 enlargement. I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution!

04-27-2018, 02:35 AM - 1 Like	#32
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by x4rd I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution! Kerrick is a landscape photographer and as such he probably seldom shoots images at f1.4 and f2. We really need to wait for other folks who shoot with wider apertures. Landscape photos shot at f1.4 aren't typically very good just because not enough of the landscape is in focus, regardless of the lenses used.

04-27-2018, 02:37 AM	#33
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by x4rd I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution! The DA55 is the biggest fifty Pentax ever made, x4rd, this DFA will be even bigger, so don't worry, the MTF curves will be the best, and as for the bokeh, it'll have nine rounded aperture blades. You'll get to see all the pictures taken by fellow forum members who've whined for months now about how the DFA has been delayed and they can't buy it yet. The first sample photo Ricoh released from the preproduction models was thought to be this one: ??????? / HD PENTAX-D FA?50mm F1.4 SDM... - ?????? (PENTAX by RICOH IMAGING) \| Facebook

04-27-2018, 03:14 AM	#34
Reed Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 638	Agreed Mr.Clackers, but, what is the purpose to for example test fast F1.4 lens auto focus behavior on a landscape shots by the aperture of F8 and slower? This is new development, so it might not be the case in this one. But I would like to get more info about that, not again the whine, as was with the 55/1.4 it is great but auto focus seemed to be weakest point of it when it was released, later greatly improved by lens eprom firmware updates- that are almost impossible to be made by typical user without sending it to repair center. Same case was seen with the 16-50, or 50-135, more recent copies ware very accurate, older ones when given the firmware copied from the newer production runs also started to work accurately. So that was not the mechanical issues(part of first gen SDM motor issues, not related IMO). I've reflashed a tottaly point and miss 16-50/2.8 to perfectly working order by simply using the debug menu and flashing the older firmware with the new one from more recent production run. So, if field test are to be made, it should test lens in most extreme target situations and light conditions, not all around F.8 performance. That was obviously omitted with old Star lens series

04-27-2018, 03:39 AM - 4 Likes	#35
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Reed Agreed Mr.Clackers, but, what is the purpose to for example test fast F1.4 lens auto focus behavior on a landscape shots by the aperture of F8 and slower? Reed, the lens hasn't been released yet, it isn't even in production. Everything so far is prototypes, and the testers themselves aren't allowed to release RAW files. You can shoot your way when you get it, Kerrick is a landscape professional and shoots his way. I've never had a problem with the DA*55 focus, by the way, other than it's slow. It takes beautiful pictures, because it's a Hirakawa design, and that's what matters to me, I use other lenses for sport and action:

04-27-2018, 04:00 AM	#36
x4rd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 241	Originally posted by clackers The DA55 is the biggest fifty Pentax ever made, x4rd, this DFA will be even bigger, so don't worry, the MTF curves will be the best, and as for the bokeh, it'll have nine rounded aperture blades. You'll get to see all the pictures taken by fellow forum members who've whined for months now about how the DFA has been delayed and they can't buy it yet. I know the characteristics and big hopes concerning this lens. Therefore I could understand this approach in terms of 35/1.4 or wider. 50 is a standard, not really for landscapes, not really for portraits for FF. Having that in mind, thus knowing that we are dealing with fast /1.4 glass, guys from marketing department should in my opinion brief influencers (ambassadors) that they should provide couple of wide open f stop pictures for folks that are eager to buy this product for low light photography. My point is - there is little need to market and tease fast lens giving the audience hyperfocal imaginery.

04-27-2018, 06:32 AM	#37
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	Nice images, clackers. I always like how well-shot pictures come out with the DA55. They have this slightly "painted" look like some of the old Takumars seem to produce. Maybe someday I'll own a copy of this lens. I do find the D-FA50 images that Kerrick shared a bit odd for showing off what the lens could do. That said, at least there's someone else out there that's used the thing and can share with us their opinions. He did his shots his way; I hope others will start sharing their shots and their impressions of the lens as it gets closer and closer to market. And not every shot has to have a pile of out-of-focus field depth blur happening. Sharpness stopped down is important, too. Looking forward to getting some serious test comparisons between all of the 50's (and the *55) that you can buy and slide onto a K-1 or KP new today when this lens hits shelves.

04-27-2018, 06:40 AM - 1 Like	#38
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by x4rd I respect Kerrick but honestly - using DFA 1.4 on f/8 and less to show the results? Give is proper samples taken on the widest opertures to show the bokeh, the resolution! I find it curious that test images are seen as "proper", while actual photographs are not

04-27-2018, 06:57 AM	#39
x4rd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 241	Originally posted by Kunzite I find it curious that test images are seen as "proper", while actual photographs are not To specify: "proper" = showing the potential of the lens ALSO in terms of OOF rendering, and the ability to maintain high sharpness on wider apertures. I hope that I explained this right.

04-27-2018, 07:05 AM	#40
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Reed Agreed Mr.Clackers, but, what is the purpose to for example test fast F1.4 lens auto focus behavior on a landscape shots by the aperture of F8 and slower? This is new development, so it might not be the case in this one. But I would like to get more info about that, not again the whine, as was with the 55/1.4 it is great but auto focus seemed to be weakest point of it when it was released, later greatly improved by lens eprom firmware updates- that are almost impossible to be made by typical user without sending it to repair center. Same case was seen with the 16-50, or 50-135, more recent copies ware very accurate, older ones when given the firmware copied from the newer production runs also started to work accurately. So that was not the mechanical issues(part of first gen SDM motor issues, not related IMO). I've reflashed a tottaly point and miss 16-50/2.8 to perfectly working order by simply using the debug menu and flashing the older firmware with the new one from more recent production run. So, if field test are to be made, it should test lens in most extreme target situations and light conditions, not all around F.8 performance. That was obviously omitted with old Star lens series F1.4 lenses can (and will) be shot down at some points. I think things like colors, contrast, flare resistance are all at least as important in shooting a lens as is sharpness wide open. That may sound blasphemous to say, but there are plenty of lenses that are tack sharp, even wide open that I don't find have appealing rendering. Regardless, there will be other folks who shoot portraits and things like that and they will be releasing images as well. If I had a copy of this lens, my guess is I would be shooting it stopped down as well, because I shoot a lot of landscapes and it doesn't do much good to have a super sharp lens if only 8 inches of your landscape is "super sharp."

04-27-2018, 08:29 AM	#41
Reed Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 638	Well then its not a necessary to use a F1.4 lens. I would preffer to use some corner to corner sharp macro F2.8 lens for that case if we stay at this focal length. I do find Mr. Kerrick James work interesting, but not necessarily a usefull field to test that kind of new product.

04-27-2018, 09:28 AM	#42
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	Who said he was out there to field test this specific lens? I read this as a "I got to briefly borrow this new lens while out doing my own thing and had my own lens with me at the time which aids in making comparisons". It's Friday and nobody is having fun?

04-27-2018, 09:29 AM	#43
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	those 1,4 shots will come. that is fir sure. people has already ’stress tests’ nightmare situations ready for fast lenses. bench mark is made by Otus, with premium prize. and 50/1,4 ART. Don’t worry..it will be soon.

04-27-2018, 12:56 PM - 5 Likes	#44
Buckeyemikie Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 504	The images I posted using the DA*50 in Peekaboo canyon were MY images, not Kerrick's. I used it as I would any other lens in that environment and was very pleased with its results. I didn't have the intent to test it wide open. Any other benefits the lens may provide wide open would add to my desire to buy one. ---------- Post added 04-27-18 at 04:02 PM ---------- Thank you pres589, for correctly noting I was the shooter & just reporting my results which I thought might be of interest to Pentaxians.