[dicki]

OK !
So I think I must take a look to the K1-2. Maybe. But silver Edition, only.

[Mikesul]

OK !
So I think I must take a look to the K1-2. Maybe. But silver Edition, only.

There will probably not be a Silver Edition K-1 II. Usually only for the original (K-5, K-3, K-1).

[Mistral75]

Ahem!

[Mikesul]

ahem!

oops!

[hitrate]

Hi there,

I am new to the forums and actually i am more interested in the innards of cameras than their look.

OK, i have to admit that I have a bit of sense for design...(I loved to shoot with that blue K-30 when I was younger)
So I think, they should use dark brown leathering on silver edition cameras and i have a crush on those gunmetal editions. Those look so darn hot, they should be standard.
.. ok, ok, i know this is only wishful thinking and that there are other things that need more improvemnt.
Like AF speed and burst rate f.i....

But I am pretty sure we will see those improvements, since RICOH already started to offer 4k on WG-M2 and Theta V...what means they buy into faster chips,
so finally there is hope, we get away from those lousy legacy Milbeaut-chipsets... since the Theta V seems to use a Qualcomm Snapdragon 625...

...I take a good guess and say, RICOH and PENTAX engineers used the RICOH THETA V to study modern smartphone SoC Circuitry...
and gosh some of SoC-chipsets are so darn powerful, that 4K vids at even 60fps or more and fast burst rates like 10fps or more should be no more problem...


The K-1 was great at the time that it arrived, but i hope they stop developing things like the K-1II(Mark II still got these annoying wheels on which most functionality is super-redundant, instead of a nice oled display so i can permanantly switch off main LCD...and go beyond 750shots with one battery.-FX-buttons would take away less space) and the KP with the same weird NR-math coprocessor also seems to be a real showstopper compared to a K-3II ???
So whatever, there is a great chance that this time, RICOH will "kick into high gear" with their successor cameras.


And they better should ... since i see so many long loyal Pentaxians jump ship to Sony... the A7III and A6500 are hard to beat beasts.
(or one-lensed photogs jump ship back to Nikon from where they actually came for the D850)

Only good handling and weather resistancy will not keep the community alive forever... especially since Pentax is a bit behind in terms of AF(they should really improve that above all else),
RICOH would do better to deliver with its next-gens, than pussyfoot around with adding weak'n'cheap coprocessors to their boards that help with superfluous NR-maths.
(what actually looks like a desperate move and means more than inconvenient engineering)

So ... to keep things clear and misunderstandings out. I shoot only PENTAX(besides a very nice RX100IV) but sometimes I rent other bodies, if i go shooting sports events, but actually i dont want to do that, since actually i would have a nice 50-500mm Sigma DG OS HSM(which itselves AF drive is quite fast from closest to infinity) but the next bodies AF should really be able to keep up with it. Since otherwise I dont see a sense anymore in keeping alive my lenspark and love for that brand.

[Scintilla]

(Mark II still got these annoying wheels on which most functionality is super-redundant, instead of a nice oled display so i can permanantly switch off main LCD...and go beyond 750shots with one battery.

Wait, what? I switched off the main LCD on my K-30 and it doesn't even have a top display at all. The most important stuff was right there in the viewfinder.

[hitrate]

Wait, what? I switched off the main LCD on my K-30 and it doesn't even have a top display at all. The most important stuff was right there in the viewfinder.

sophism? really?... where should that lead us?

[photoptimist]

But I am pretty sure we will see those improvements, since RICOH already started to offer 4k on WG-M2 and Theta V...what means they buy into faster chips,
so finally there is hope, we get away from those lousy legacy Milbeaut-chipsets... since the Theta V seems to use a Qualcomm Snapdragon 625...

...I take a good guess and say, RICOH and PENTAX engineers used the RICOH THETA V to study modern smartphone SoC Circuitry...
and gosh some of SoC-chipsets are so darn powerful, that 4K vids at even 60fps or more and fast burst rates like 10fps or more should be no more problem...

Sorry! It does not matter what SoC Ricoh puts in the camera because the SoC has no influence on the max frame rate of the K-1. It's the sensor that limits the frame rate and even the latest generation full-frame sensors are inadequate for building what you asked for.

The A7iii can get to 10 fps but only by using a much lower-resolution sensor.

The A9 gets to 20 fps but it sacrifices the image quality so that it scores WORSE than the original K-1 and costs twice as much as the K-1ii.

The Nikon D850 only does 7 fps although it can get to 9 fps with the added bulk of a battery grip and also costs 50% more than the K-1ii.

The Canon EOS 5D Mark IV only does 7 fps and has lower resolution than the K-1 and WORSE image quality than the K-1 and it's almost twice the price.


Getting 10 fps and 4k off a full-frame sensor requires compromises in resolution, image quality, bulk, or cost.


P.S. 4K video shows up on lower-end devices because it's easy to get high data rates off a tiny sensor.

[hitrate]

Despite that you may think, that I would criticize already existing products because you are actually unsatisfied...
You are also actually playing dumb here. (Sry but you are playing dumb because since you know the sensor part I have to assume you maybe also know that a sensor ain't everything)-->
The best sensor with the highest possible readout time and the possibility for global efc-shutter speed up to the billionth of a second..
...it will do zip-nada-null NOTHING!!...
without a capable Chipset.

You should also keep in mind, that a camera firmware also needs computing power for doing Autofocus-Calculations.

What you are stating is like saying:
My ride is the fastest because it has the most horsepower. That's as wrong as can get.
Your car won't even roll out the garage without wheels no matter what motor is built into it.

So I am talking about hope for a new pentax ride that has got a reasonably sized motor-(who needs a V8 or V12 when there is no road on which you can drive it) , because anyways people always complain about the data amount that comes from 36+mp cameras.)? (You would also know that if you would observe other forums or Facebook for instance)
A V6 that brings out higher rpm is completely sufficient with the right chassis, clutches, transmission, TIRES etc.

BTTP: some of those SoCs are more than capable to transmit the power of a 4k capable sensor.
Snapdragon 845 could already cope with 8K which we will see in MILCS in app. 3 years I guess.
(It's Samsung counterpart already was built into an 8K capable SAMSUNG NX1II DEMO-body that was especially built to showcase the capability of that very SoC Chip.

And JFYI: I was talking about my hope for an UPCOMING product/camera, so it really puzzles me, why you are comparing the K-1? with bodies from other makers? All FF-cameras...?

I am not interested in those.
Despite the fact that again 24mp on the K-3II successor would be more than enough for me.
As long as other areas improve, speaking for myself, I don't have any use for a body with more than 32MP.
Be it crop or FF.

I use my K-1 or hq-scans from EKTAR 100 out of my 645N or 67 if I want insane resolution for some project.
Maybe I'll buy the 645Z successor...

And even if Pentax would bring another FF (why?) before a K-3II successor...
Even if.. why for Pete's sake should it again have 36MP or more?(other: why should it have the same sensor?)
Where is the sense in that, if the K-1 (and K-1.5) already are the perfect 36MP cameras?

Anyway, I don't feel very welcome, since I bring in my hopes and wishes for upcoming products and you only bring in negativity. (That's very contrary to the Nick you chose..?.)

There would be no evolution in anything if status quo is what people want to have. So ask yourself why you always argue for status quo?(I watched discussions on Pentax forums from time to time, before I joined the forum today)

You may talk again past each my actual plead, if I go into your arguments for.. for whatsoever... But let me tell you again,
There are loads of M43(not so far from crop) cams and crop cameras that offer (despite the resolution) way more than a KP for instance... For a fraction of the KPs price.
I used a market search tool and filtered out units that offer at least 10fps, APS-C or FF, 4KVideo and got app. 50 results. Ok some products get offered as Kit so(a few times) so one could divide that by 3 maybe. But those cameras ARE THERE and it's not only 3 of them... and M43 is PRETTY close to crop if you ask me and Sony crops like a6500 or 6300 cost the same or way less then a KP already.

I have absolutely no interest in explicitly listing other makers products here but it's not that high frame rates plus 4K Video would not be on the market and not a sales argument that draw more and more people away from Pentax. Or is it?

Maybe there was a misunderstanding. Thing is, I am talking about upcoming crop here, because of the mysterious number in the threads title (sry if I got something wrong here) and upcoming FF in the very distant future.

Anyways, the answer to hope on improvements and better features on upcoming products sounds more bitter-cold-negative than "optimistic"....
If you personally want to stay without 4K Video, you can easily do that by keeping the K-1 and never upgrade again.
Regardless to your "talking-down", I am still convinced that we will see great improvements in the next-gens. You will see, there will come:
4K Video
Faster and longer stills bursts...
No one forces anyone to upgrade... But I bet something, that (nearly)all PENTAXIANS would be more than happy about PENTAX catching up or even overtake, so in 5-6 years we are really back in the game, have a wider userbase what would result in more lenses to choose from.

Let's win that game!

[MarkJerling]

And they better should ... since i see so many long loyal Pentaxians jump ship to Sony... the A7III and A6500 are hard to beat beasts.

I'd counter with: Real loyal Pentaxians don't jump ship. Not that it matters. It's about the images, not the brand.

The Sony's won't win me over unless they had mirrors and beautifully clear optical viewfinders.

4K Video

2k, 4k, a half a k, or 972k. It makes no difference if I never shoot video. Correction: I shot video once to see if it worked. If I wanted to shoot video, I'd buy a video camera.

Faster and longer stills bursts...

I'd be with you there.

But I bet something, that (nearly)all PENTAXIANS would be more than happy about PENTAX catching up or even overtake, so in 5-6 years we are really back in the game, have a wider userbase what would result in more lenses to choose from.

I don't think Ricoh has any intention of being a volume producer in direct competition with Canikon. Do we really have a shortage of glass?

[Zygonyx]

Ahem!

I want silver K-1 II with this very same design (as K-3 and K-3 II), no black-sided wheels, please Mr Ricoh !!!

[rangercarp]

Mods, suggest closing this thread. The discussion has nothing to do with the original topic.

[photoptimist]

Despite that you may think, that I would criticize already existing products because you are actually unsatisfied...
You are also actually playing dumb here. (Sry but you are playing dumb because since you know the sensor part I have to assume you maybe also know that a sensor ain't everything)-->
The best sensor with the highest possible readout time and the possibility for global efc-shutter speed up to the billionth of a second..
...it will do zip-nada-null NOTHING!!...
without a capable Chipset.

You should also keep in mind, that a camera firmware also needs computing power for doing Autofocus-Calculations.

What you are stating is like saying:
My ride is the fastest because it has the most horsepower. That's as wrong as can get.
Your car won't even roll out the garage without wheels no matter what motor is built into it.

So I am talking about hope for a new pentax ride that has got a reasonably sized motor-(who needs a V8 or V12 when there is no road on which you can drive it) , because anyways people always complain about the data amount that comes from 36+mp cameras.)? (You would also know that if you would observe other forums or Facebook for instance)
A V6 that brings out higher rpm is completely sufficient with the right chassis, clutches, transmission, TIRES etc.

BTTP: some of those SoCs are more than capable to transmit the power of a 4k capable sensor.
Snapdragon 845 could already cope with 8K which we will see in MILCS in app. 3 years I guess.

You are right that a camera needs a powerful enough SoC to get the job done.

But the SoC is not the engine of the camera, it's only the transmission and a more powerful of a transmission can't overcome the limitations of the engine. The sensor is the actual engine and that is what is limiting the fps and video performance in the K-1 and every other full frame camera in the market. If the sensor is incapable of putting out the data fast enough, it does not matter how powerful the SoC is. You could double the power of the K-1's SoC and it would still only do 4 fps and still be incapable of 4k video because the sensor can't put out pixels any faster than it currently does.

Currently there are no full frame sensors that meet or beat the sensor in the K-1 on quality and resolution while delivering 10 fps.

Big sensors can't put out the data fast without sacrificing resolution (A7iii, 5D Mark IV), sacrificing image quality (A9,5D Mark IV), or costing a huge amount (D850, A9, 5D Mark IV).

And if you are looking for 8k video, then don't look for it in full frame. It's going to show up in smaller sensor cameras first. In fact, if you are looking for high video performance, don't look to Pentax. Pentax has explicitly said they don't consider video a priority.

[MikeyBugs95]

Despite that you may think, that I would criticize already existing products because you are actually unsatisfied...
You are also actually playing dumb here. (Sry but you are playing dumb because since you know the sensor part I have to assume you maybe also know that a sensor ain't everything)-->
The best sensor with the highest possible readout time and the possibility for global efc-shutter speed up to the billionth of a second..
...it will do zip-nada-null NOTHING!!...
without a capable Chipset.

You should also keep in mind, that a camera firmware also needs computing power for doing Autofocus-Calculations.

What you are stating is like saying:
My ride is the fastest because it has the most horsepower. That's as wrong as can get.
Your car won't even roll out the garage without wheels no matter what motor is built into it.

So I am talking about hope for a new pentax ride that has got a reasonably sized motor-(who needs a V8 or V12 when there is no road on which you can drive it) , because anyways people always complain about the data amount that comes from 36+mp cameras.)? (You would also know that if you would observe other forums or Facebook for instance)
A V6 that brings out higher rpm is completely sufficient with the right chassis, clutches, transmission, TIRES etc.

BTTP: some of those SoCs are more than capable to transmit the power of a 4k capable sensor.
Snapdragon 845 could already cope with 8K which we will see in MILCS in app. 3 years I guess.
(It's Samsung counterpart already was built into an 8K capable SAMSUNG NX1II DEMO-body that was especially built to showcase the capability of that very SoC Chip.

And JFYI: I was talking about my hope for an UPCOMING product/camera, so it really puzzles me, why you are comparing the K-1? with bodies from other makers? All FF-cameras...?

I am not interested in those.
Despite the fact that again 24mp on the K-3II successor would be more than enough for me.
As long as other areas improve, speaking for myself, I don't have any use for a body with more than 32MP.
Be it crop or FF.

I use my K-1 or hq-scans from EKTAR 100 out of my 645N or 67 if I want insane resolution for some project.
Maybe I'll buy the 645Z successor...

And even if Pentax would bring another FF (why?) before a K-3II successor...
Even if.. why for Pete's sake should it again have 36MP or more?(other: why should it have the same sensor?)
Where is the sense in that, if the K-1 (and K-1.5) already are the perfect 36MP cameras?

Anyway, I don't feel very welcome, since I bring in my hopes and wishes for upcoming products and you only bring in negativity. (That's very contrary to the Nick you chose..?.)

There would be no evolution in anything if status quo is what people want to have. So ask yourself why you always argue for status quo?(I watched discussions on Pentax forums from time to time, before I joined the forum today)

You may talk again past each my actual plead, if I go into your arguments for.. for whatsoever... But let me tell you again,
There are loads of M43(not so far from crop) cams and crop cameras that offer (despite the resolution) way more than a KP for instance... For a fraction of the KPs price.
I used a market search tool and filtered out units that offer at least 10fps, APS-C or FF, 4KVideo and got app. 50 results. Ok some products get offered as Kit so(a few times) so one could divide that by 3 maybe. But those cameras ARE THERE and it's not only 3 of them... and M43 is PRETTY close to crop if you ask me and Sony crops like a6500 or 6300 cost the same or way less then a KP already.

I have absolutely no interest in explicitly listing other makers products here but it's not that high frame rates plus 4K Video would not be on the market and not a sales argument that draw more and more people away from Pentax. Or is it?

Maybe there was a misunderstanding. Thing is, I am talking about upcoming crop here, because of the mysterious number in the threads title (sry if I got something wrong here) and upcoming FF in the very distant future.

Anyways, the answer to hope on improvements and better features on upcoming products sounds more bitter-cold-negative than "optimistic"....
If you personally want to stay without 4K Video, you can easily do that by keeping the K-1 and never upgrade again.
Regardless to your "talking-down", I am still convinced that we will see great improvements in the next-gens. You will see, there will come:
4K Video
Faster and longer stills bursts...
No one forces anyone to upgrade... But I bet something, that (nearly)all PENTAXIANS would be more than happy about PENTAX catching up or even overtake, so in 5-6 years we are really back in the game, have a wider userbase what would result in more lenses to choose from.

Let's win that game!

Think of it like this: even if you have the best car transmission available anywhere, if you don't have an engine to match, that transmission doesn't matter. Same with sensors and SOCs. If the sensor can't transfer data fast enough or have a high enough read-out speed, that top-end SOC means little.

[surfar]

the A7III and A6500 are hard to beat beasts.

Their weather sealing and menus are easy to beat!

---------- Post added 05-11-18 at 08:09 AM ----------

So ... to keep things clear and misunderstandings out.

sometimes I rent other bodies, if i go shooting sports events, but actually i dont want to do that, since actually i would have a nice 50-500mm Sigma DG OS HSM(which itselves AF drive is quite fast from closest to infinity) but the next bodies AF should really be able to keep up with it

Can you explain this again please?...that Sigma comes in K-mount,what Pentax body have you used it on?