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09-26-2018, 09:24 PM   #601
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
That google translate piece is one of the best ever!

"The content of this section is a section added by the demon king on June 26, which is derived from the data leakage of the star wizard. Then the devil may wish to post it to everyone for a simple interpretation to see if it is similar to the test results of the devil before."
I rate that a 666.

10-03-2018, 06:14 AM   #602
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After having seen the sad corner performance and strong vignetting of the same price brandnew Nikon 24-70mm f/4 S at F4 and even at F5.6, which happens to be 3 full stops slower on a much broader lens mount, the DFA* 50 is even more a great lens.
10-03-2018, 06:21 AM   #603
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How about the -4EV vignetting of the EOS RF 50mm f/1.2?
Canon RF 50mm f/1.2L USM Lens Vignetting

By the way, on the other site (Digital-I don't quite like Pentax-Review), the Tokina Opera has 14 "I want it" votes, while the original Pentax has 17 "I own it" and 117 "I want it".
Not sure if relevant in any way... but Canon/Nikon people don't seem to realize what they're missing.
10-03-2018, 09:55 AM   #604
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
How about the -4EV vignetting of the EOS RF 50mm f/1.2?

Zeiss Sonnar T* FE 55mm f/1.8 ZA ( SEL55F18Z ) - Full Format Review / Test - Analysis

Zeiss 55/1.8 - 2.61 EV at 1.8

Sony / Zeiss FE Distagon T* 35mm f/1.4 ZA ( SEL35F14Z ) - Review / Test Report - Analysis
Zeiss 35/1.4 - 2.8 EV at 1.4

It's almost normal for mirrorless lens Alas....

10-03-2018, 10:11 AM   #605
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It should be, since the rear element is so close to the sensor/image plane. The inverse square law takes its toll on mirrorless. Not so much on retrofocus designs.
The same happens on large format ultra wide angle lenses and is the reason for using center filters.

10-03-2018, 11:29 AM   #606
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So you are loosing performance by saving depth in the mount area with mirrorless. Doesn't seem like a good trade-off.
10-03-2018, 11:56 AM   #607
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QuoteOriginally posted by torashi Quote
It should be, since the rear element is so close to the sensor/image plane. The inverse square law takes its toll on mirrorless. Not so much on retrofocus designs.
The same happens on large format ultra wide angle lenses and is the reason for using center filters.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
So you are loosing performance by saving depth in the mount area with mirrorless. Doesn't seem like a good trade-off.
There's a simple solution... Shoot with adapted lenses designed for DSLRs OK, so you lose the size advantage offered by a few native MILC lens designs, but few people still believe they're going to enjoy much of a size and weight advantage with mirrorless over DSLR anyway.

10-03-2018, 11:56 AM   #608
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The tokina might be heavy but that's ok.

"135g heavier than the Sigma 50mm F1.4 Art, but handles well on a Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. It doesn't feel front heavy."

The Pentax is heavy too. Probably too heavy.

"Despite its bulk though, the 50mm balances well on the K-1 II assuming you don't mind the combined weight of the package."

Pentaxians must be stronger since they like it and other systems are lighter I guess.
10-03-2018, 01:14 PM   #609
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
There's a simple solution... Shoot with adapted lenses designed for DSLRs OK, so you lose the size advantage offered by a few native MILC lens designs, but few people still believe they're going to enjoy much of a size and weight advantage with mirrorless over DSLR anyway.
That's not the case for $$ony, for example, since the mount is so narrow that lenses require special designs to overcome that limitation and the weight advantage isn't that considerable.
But if you're comparing the 645z with the available mirrorless options, there is a huge difference in weight and size.

10-03-2018, 01:21 PM   #610
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QuoteOriginally posted by torashi Quote
That's not the case for $$ony, for example, since the mount is so narrow that lenses require special designs to overcome that limitation and the weight advantage isn't that considerable.
But if you're comparing the 645z with the available mirrorless options, there is a huge difference in weight and size.
The Leica M mount is narrower than the Sony E mount. I've never noticed that the Leica M lenses were big or heavy.

The Leica L mount is much broader than the Sony E mount, yet SL lenses are big and heavy.

It all depends on the choices made by the manufacturer.
10-03-2018, 01:24 PM   #611
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The Leica M mount is narrower than the Sony E mount. I've never noticed that the Leica M lenses were big or heavy.
That is why Ricoh should come with a M-mount mirrorless with full electronics. Backwards compatible with old M-mount lenses and giving auto focus for new lenses.
10-03-2018, 01:38 PM   #612
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
That is why Ricoh should come with a M-mount mirrorless with full electronics. Backwards compatible with old M-mount lenses and giving auto focus for new lenses.
Or just make a K-mount MILC. The grip on a camera like the Z7 is at least as deep as K-mount flange distance, so the camera wouldn't be any deeper than other MILCs, and this way they wouldn't have to construct even more lenses, but would still encourage the purchase of Pentax lenses.
10-03-2018, 02:05 PM - 1 Like   #613
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QuoteOriginally posted by torashi Quote
That's not the case for $$ony, for example, since the mount is so narrow that lenses require special designs to overcome that limitation and the weight advantage isn't that considerable.
But if you're comparing the 645z with the available mirrorless options, there is a huge difference in weight and size.
Forgive me, but - with respect - I'm not sure exactly what part you're referring to as not being the case for Sony?

I have no native E-mount lenses for my A7 MkII. I bought it, along with the LA-EA4 adapter, primarily to use with adapted vintage lenses, but also as a backup body to my Hasselblad HV (Sony A99).

I shoot the following A-mount (or Minolta AF) zoom lenses:

- Konica Minolta 17-35 f/2.8-4(D)
- Sony Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 SSM
- Tamron 28-300 f/3.5-6.3
- Tamron 28-300 f/3.5-6.3 PZD
- Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 USD
- Tamron 150-600 f/5-6.3 (G1)

... and these primes:

- Minolta 50mm f/1.7
- Samyang 85mm f/1.4
- Tamron 90 f/2.8 Macro

The Sony Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 came with my Hasselblad HV, and the rest were bought to shoot mainly on that camera. But I use all of those lenses on my A7 MkII with the LA-EA4 adapter, with no obvious price to pay in terms of vignetting or image quality. So far as I can tell, they perform just the same as they do on my HV.

I also shoot a wide range of adapted M42 Soviet glass on both the HV and A7 MkII from 16mm through 1000mm with no difference in results.

I'm not saying there's definitely no difference... I could be ignorant on the matter It's just that I don't notice any, and I perform some of my processing at 100% reproduction, so I think I'd notice...

EDIT: The only lenses I know I have problems with on the A7 MkII - and I knew this would be the case before I bought the camera - are vintage certain wide angle models designed for short registration mounts, where the rear element is very close to the sensor; an example being the Jupiter-12 2.8/35 for Soviet M39 rangefinder, which shows noticeable colour shift in the corners. Another good example is the Russar 20/5.6...

Disclosure - I'm no more a fan of Sony than any other brand. It's just one of the brands I shoot

Last edited by BigMackCam; 10-03-2018 at 02:45 PM.
10-03-2018, 03:12 PM   #614
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Forgive me, but - with respect - I'm not sure exactly what part you're referring to as not being the case for Sony?

I have no native E-mount lenses for my A7 MkII. I bought it, along with the LA-EA4 adapter, primarily to use with adapted vintage lenses, but also as a backup body to my Hasselblad HV (Sony A99).

I shoot the following A-mount (or Minolta AF) zoom lenses:

- Konica Minolta 17-35 f/2.8-4(D)
- Sony Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 SSM
- Tamron 28-300 f/3.5-6.3
- Tamron 28-300 f/3.5-6.3 PZD
- Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 USD
- Tamron 150-600 f/5-6.3 (G1)

... and these primes:

- Minolta 50mm f/1.7
- Samyang 85mm f/1.4
- Tamron 90 f/2.8 Macro

The Sony Zeiss 24-70 f/2.8 came with my Hasselblad HV, and the rest were bought to shoot mainly on that camera. But I use all of those lenses on my A7 MkII with the LA-EA4 adapter, with no obvious price to pay in terms of vignetting or image quality. So far as I can tell, they perform just the same as they do on my HV.

I also shoot a wide range of adapted M42 Soviet glass on both the HV and A7 MkII from 16mm through 1000mm with no difference in results.

I'm not saying there's definitely no difference... I could be ignorant on the matter It's just that I don't notice any, and I perform some of my processing at 100% reproduction, so I think I'd notice...

EDIT: The only lenses I know I have problems with on the A7 MkII - and I knew this would be the case before I bought the camera - are vintage certain wide angle models designed for short registration mounts, where the rear element is very close to the sensor; an example being the Jupiter-12 2.8/35 for Soviet M39 rangefinder, which shows noticeable colour shift in the corners. Another good example is the Russar 20/5.6...

Disclosure - I'm no more a fan of Sony than any other brand. It's just one of the brands I shoot
My point was about lenses with short registration distances. Wide angle, rangefinder M39 and the like like you mentioned. Falloff is just physics and solving that is no easy task. Such a lens without vignetting would have to be brighter in the corners than in the center. Essentially having an in built center filter or something like an inverse apodisation filter. Maybe tinting a convex element could solve the problem. But then an f/4 lens would become f/8 (or rather T 8) or something like that.
As a side note, I read about that issue and that using a thinner sensor filter considerably mitigates the problem. I think kolarivision has that service for Sony, if you're ever interested in a thin filter conversion.

EDIT: Sorry, there's been a mix up. You were mentioning few were still convinced there's a weight advantage. That was my point too. It's the reason I mentioned the 645Z.

Size advantage is clearly there, but only if you use the lenses with the shorter registration distances.

Last edited by torashi; 10-03-2018 at 03:23 PM.
10-03-2018, 03:18 PM   #615
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QuoteOriginally posted by torashi Quote
My point was about lenses with short registration distances.
Ah, right That's why I was careful to mention using "adapted lenses designed for DSLRs". In any case, I was really suggesting people could use modern F-mount lenses on the Nikon Z; EF-mount lenses on Canon RF-mount; A-mount lenses on E-mount etc.

QuoteOriginally posted by torashi Quote
As a side note, I read about that issue and that using a thinner sensor filter considerably mitigates the problem. I think kolarivision has that service for Sony, if you're ever interested in a thin filter conversion.
Thanks! I'll have to read up on that. It would be nice to be able to use my Jupiter-12 to the best of its ability. Right now, I tend to convert to B&W...
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