Development update regarding the HD PENTAX-D FA★50mmF1.4 SDM AW

torashi · 10-03-2018, 03:30 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Ah, right

That's why I was careful to mention using "adapted lenses designed for DSLRs". In any case, I was really suggesting people could use modern F-mount lenses on the Nikon Z; EF-mount lenses on Canon RF-mount; A-mount lenses on E-mount etc.

Thanks! I'll have to read up on that. It would be nice to be able to use my Jupiter-12 to the best of its ability. Right now, I tend to convert to B&W...

You're welcome. I bet that Russian will be honored if you ever decide to take the plunge on that slim filter.

MikeyBugs95 · 10-03-2018, 09:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by reh321

Or just make a K-mount MILC. The grip on a camera like the Z7 is at least as deep as K-mount flange distance, so the camera wouldn't be any deeper than other MILCs, and this way they wouldn't have to construct even more lenses, but would still encourage the purchase of Pentax lenses.

But then people are going to complain that's the new camera is "too big" and too "dslr-like" because the flange distance didn't get any smaller. "DumpPentax Review" would review it poorly, claim it doesn't stack up to the Nikon ZX, Canon K-whatever, Sony A150 Mk∞ because it's too "big" and that none of its positives can make up for it.

BROO · 10-03-2018, 09:18 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MikeyBugs95

But then people are going to complain that's the new camera is "too big" and too "dslr-like" because the flange distance didn't get any smaller.

I have wondered if it would be possible to design a MILC body with a control ring at the lens mount. Possible with KFA4 lenses I would think. You could customize this ring for Aperture control etc. ???

**Rondec** · 10-04-2018, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by MikeyBugs95

But then people are going to complain that's the new camera is "too big" and too "dslr-like" because the flange distance didn't get any smaller. "DumpPentax Review" would review it poorly, claim it doesn't stack up to the Nikon ZX, Canon K-whatever, Sony A150 Mk∞ because it's too "big" and that none of its positives can make up for it.

Not all mirrorless ILCs are tiny. As long as the specifications are there, the ergonomics are good, and the camera is relatively compact, it would be fine. I think the K-P is proof that small size alone doesn't sell (many) cameras.

D1N0 · 10-11-2018, 04:39 AM

review of the Tokina version on the Nikon D850: Tokina Opera 50mm f/1.4 FF full frame DSLR lens review - Nikon Rumors

reh321 · 10-11-2018, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Not all mirrorless ILCs are tiny. As long as the specifications are there, the ergonomics are good, and the camera is relatively compact, it would be fine. I think the K-P is proof that small size alone doesn't sell (many) cameras.

Seldom does one feature alone 'sell a camera'.

I believe the K-01 was doomed by its lack of EVF ..... but Pentax seemed to 'learn' not to produce MILCs.

Some people complained that the KP "is just a more expensive K-70", but I see it as having much better build-quality than a K-70.

Some people complain that the KP lacks buffer and top deck from K-3 family, but I see it as not making me pay for the K3 family features I don't want.

MMVIII · 10-11-2018, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

review of the Tokina version on the Nikon D850: Tokina Opera 50mm f/1.4 FF full frame DSLR lens review - Nikon Rumors

Thank you for posting it.

I think this is an interesting read and even if it is to a certain degree controlled message (it's by an ambassador for Tokina and Hoya) it nicely shows the qualities and versability of this lens. The emphasis on the benefits of such a lens in various photographic settings, that can be correlated equally to the DFA*, is a nice counter-image to technical gearheady assesments from gear centered sites.

BarneyL · 11-11-2018, 07:14 AM

Looks like the youtube's favourite photography vlogger had his hands on the new Tokina Opera:

You Tube

Interesting that it's made in Vietnam. Unless Tokina have its facilities in Vietnam, that would imply it's a straight rebadge from Pentax D-FA.

**monochrome** · 11-11-2018, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by BarneyL

Looks like the youtube's favourite photography vlogger had his hands on the new Tokina Opera:
New TOKINA lens ? 50mm f1.4 OPERA lens review & conclusions - YouTube

Interesting that it's made in Vietnam. Unless Tokina have its facilities in Vietnam, that would imply it's a straight rebadge from Pentax D-FA.

Well that little bit of information is certainly interesting. I wonder if there will be an Opera 85/1.4 and Opera 35/1.4?

Kunzite · 11-11-2018, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by BarneyL

Looks like the youtube's favourite photography vlogger had his hands on the new Tokina Opera:

And he's spewing garbage, as usual. Don't waste 11 minutes hoping for some useful content.
How much complaining about weight? Yes, the Tokina is 850g vs Sigma Art's 815g. That's enough to complain twice - but not a hundred times.
As for the price, I've just checked on B&H: the Sigma Art is $950. Why would the superior (by his own admission) Tokina be $350 cheaper?

Fcsnt54 · 11-11-2018, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

And he's spewing garbage, as usual. Don't waste 11 minutes hoping for some useful content.

How much complaining about weight? Yes, the Tokina is 850g vs Sigma Art's 815g. That's enough to complain twice - but not a hundred times.

As for the price, I've just checked on B&H: the Sigma Art is $950. Why would the superior (by his own admission) Tokina be $350 cheaper?

You just have to read between the lines on his review. He actually really likes the lens in almost every way, shape, and form. He is just trying to find a way to talk himself out of liking the lens.

swanlefitte · 11-11-2018, 09:59 AM

He says he hates the sigma. Loves the more expensive, manual focus schneider kreuznach. The tamron 45 1.8 is cheaper but not as good.

biz-engineer · 11-11-2018, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by BarneyL

Interesting that it's made in Vietnam. Unless Tokina have its facilities in Vietnam, that would imply it's a straight rebadge from Pentax D-FA.

Would this be a Pentax design? c'mon

northcoastgreg · 11-11-2018, 10:55 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BarneyL

Interesting that it's made in Vietnam.

I checked the Tokina website to confirm this, and yes, the lens is made in Vietnam (I couldn't find any other Tokina lenses that were manufactured in that country). This suggests the possibility that Pentax/Ricoh is now making lenses for Nikon and Canon and selling them through Tokina in the "Opera" series, which I assume will include the upcoming 85/1.4 and the 35/1.4. Perhaps making versions of these lenses for Canon and Nikon is the only way Ricoh can afford to make such ambitious lenses. Maybe that's part of the explanation for the delay of the DFA 50 and the DA* 11-16. The production facilities in Vietnam are being held up to make lenses for Canon and Nikon. Also: will Tokina reciprocate with rebadges for Pentax? Is the new DFA 70-200 f4, slated to be released next spring, a Tokina rebadge? Is there a possibility of other Tokina lenses being rebadged? The 17-35/4 for instance? What other Pentax lenses, besides the star primes, might wind up being made for Tokina? The DFA fisheye zoom perhaps? Tokina seems to like fisheye zooms. They're still selling their version of the 10-17.

Kunzite · 11-11-2018, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by northcoastgreg

I checked the Tokina website to confirm this, and yes, the lens is made in Vietnam (I couldn't find any other Tokina lenses that were manufactured in that country). This suggests the possibility that Pentax/Ricoh is now making lenses for Nikon and Canon and selling them through Tokina in the "Opera" series, which I assume will include the upcoming 85/1.4 and the 35/1.4. Perhaps making versions of these lenses for Canon and Nikon is the only way Ricoh can afford to make such ambitious lenses. Maybe that's part of the explanation for the delay of the DFA 50 and the DA* 11-16. The production facilities in Vietnam are being held up to make lenses for Canon and Nikon. Also: will Tokina reciprocate with rebadges for Pentax? Is the new DFA 70-200 f4, slated to be released next spring, a Tokina rebadge? Is there a possibility of other Tokina lenses being rebadged? The 17-35/4 for instance? What other Pentax lenses, besides the star primes, might wind up being made for Tokina? The DFA fisheye zoom perhaps? Tokina seems to like fisheye zooms. They're still selling their version of the 10-17.

I'm also of the opinion that renewing the collaboration with Tokina is what made this lens possible. Not the technical part, but having it - with top-notch optics, ring-type SDM etc. - on the market for a mere $1200.

OTOH the delay is explained here:
Development Story | HD PENTAX-D FA?50mm F1.4 SDM AW | PENTAX STAR LENS | RICOH IMAGING
A technical issue discovered late in the development process.
Since the Tokina version was launched later than the Pentax, it's definitely not about tying production facilities; I had my Pentax well before the Tokina reached the market.

The best candidate of being a Tokina - likely not a rebadge, but design, as in the past - is the 70-200 f/4, as Tokina already have such a lens. But the D FA might be a Pentax design; we don't know yet.
Fisheye zooms are a Pentax signature design; they had a 17-28mm film one, then the 10-17 which was also a Pentax.

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10-03-2018, 03:30 PM - 1 Like	#616
torashi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Medellín Posts: 1,322	Originally posted by BigMackCam Ah, right That's why I was careful to mention using "adapted lenses designed for DSLRs". In any case, I was really suggesting people could use modern F-mount lenses on the Nikon Z; EF-mount lenses on Canon RF-mount; A-mount lenses on E-mount etc. Thanks! I'll have to read up on that. It would be nice to be able to use my Jupiter-12 to the best of its ability. Right now, I tend to convert to B&W... You're welcome. I bet that Russian will be honored if you ever decide to take the plunge on that slim filter.

10-03-2018, 09:13 PM - 1 Like	#617
MikeyBugs95 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,206	Originally posted by reh321 Or just make a K-mount MILC. The grip on a camera like the Z7 is at least as deep as K-mount flange distance, so the camera wouldn't be any deeper than other MILCs, and this way they wouldn't have to construct even more lenses, but would still encourage the purchase of Pentax lenses. But then people are going to complain that's the new camera is "too big" and too "dslr-like" because the flange distance didn't get any smaller. "DumpPentax Review" would review it poorly, claim it doesn't stack up to the Nikon ZX, Canon K-whatever, Sony A150 Mk∞ because it's too "big" and that none of its positives can make up for it.

10-03-2018, 09:18 PM - 1 Like	#618
BROO Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 655	Originally posted by MikeyBugs95 But then people are going to complain that's the new camera is "too big" and too "dslr-like" because the flange distance didn't get any smaller. I have wondered if it would be possible to design a MILC body with a control ring at the lens mount. Possible with KFA4 lenses I would think. You could customize this ring for Aperture control etc. ???

10-04-2018, 02:52 AM	#619
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by MikeyBugs95 But then people are going to complain that's the new camera is "too big" and too "dslr-like" because the flange distance didn't get any smaller. "DumpPentax Review" would review it poorly, claim it doesn't stack up to the Nikon ZX, Canon K-whatever, Sony A150 Mk∞ because it's too "big" and that none of its positives can make up for it. Not all mirrorless ILCs are tiny. As long as the specifications are there, the ergonomics are good, and the camera is relatively compact, it would be fine. I think the K-P is proof that small size alone doesn't sell (many) cameras.

10-11-2018, 04:39 AM	#620
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	review of the Tokina version on the Nikon D850: Tokina Opera 50mm f/1.4 FF full frame DSLR lens review - Nikon Rumors

10-11-2018, 04:59 AM	#621
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Rondec Not all mirrorless ILCs are tiny. As long as the specifications are there, the ergonomics are good, and the camera is relatively compact, it would be fine. I think the K-P is proof that small size alone doesn't sell (many) cameras. Seldom does one feature alone 'sell a camera'. I believe the K-01 was doomed by its lack of EVF ..... but Pentax seemed to 'learn' not to produce MILCs. Some people complained that the KP "is just a more expensive K-70", but I see it as having much better build-quality than a K-70. Some people complain that the KP lacks buffer and top deck from K-3 family, but I see it as not making me pay for the K3 family features I don't want.

10-11-2018, 05:03 AM	#622
MMVIII Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: EU Posts: 1,121	Originally posted by D1N0 review of the Tokina version on the Nikon D850: Tokina Opera 50mm f/1.4 FF full frame DSLR lens review - Nikon Rumors Thank you for posting it. I think this is an interesting read and even if it is to a certain degree controlled message (it's by an ambassador for Tokina and Hoya) it nicely shows the qualities and versability of this lens. The emphasis on the benefits of such a lens in various photographic settings, that can be correlated equally to the DFA*, is a nice counter-image to technical gearheady assesments from gear centered sites.

11-11-2018, 08:14 AM	#624
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by BarneyL Looks like the youtube's favourite photography vlogger had his hands on the new Tokina Opera: New TOKINA lens ? 50mm f1.4 OPERA lens review & conclusions - YouTube Interesting that it's made in Vietnam. Unless Tokina have its facilities in Vietnam, that would imply it's a straight rebadge from Pentax D-FA. Well that little bit of information is certainly interesting. I wonder if there will be an Opera 85/1.4 and Opera 35/1.4?

11-11-2018, 09:33 AM	#625
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by BarneyL Looks like the youtube's favourite photography vlogger had his hands on the new Tokina Opera: And he's spewing garbage, as usual. Don't waste 11 minutes hoping for some useful content. How much complaining about weight? Yes, the Tokina is 850g vs Sigma Art's 815g. That's enough to complain twice - but not a hundred times. As for the price, I've just checked on B&H: the Sigma Art is $950. Why would the superior (by his own admission) Tokina be $350 cheaper?

11-11-2018, 09:52 AM	#626
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by Kunzite And he's spewing garbage, as usual. Don't waste 11 minutes hoping for some useful content. How much complaining about weight? Yes, the Tokina is 850g vs Sigma Art's 815g. That's enough to complain twice - but not a hundred times. As for the price, I've just checked on B&H: the Sigma Art is $950. Why would the superior (by his own admission) Tokina be $350 cheaper? You just have to read between the lines on his review. He actually really likes the lens in almost every way, shape, and form. He is just trying to find a way to talk himself out of liking the lens.

11-11-2018, 09:59 AM	#627
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	He says he hates the sigma. Loves the more expensive, manual focus schneider kreuznach. The tamron 45 1.8 is cheaper but not as good.

11-11-2018, 10:10 AM	#628
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by BarneyL Interesting that it's made in Vietnam. Unless Tokina have its facilities in Vietnam, that would imply it's a straight rebadge from Pentax D-FA. Would this be a Pentax design? c'mon

11-11-2018, 10:55 AM - 1 Like	#629
northcoastgreg Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Northern Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,173	Originally posted by BarneyL Interesting that it's made in Vietnam. I checked the Tokina website to confirm this, and yes, the lens is made in Vietnam (I couldn't find any other Tokina lenses that were manufactured in that country). This suggests the possibility that Pentax/Ricoh is now making lenses for Nikon and Canon and selling them through Tokina in the "Opera" series, which I assume will include the upcoming 85/1.4 and the 35/1.4. Perhaps making versions of these lenses for Canon and Nikon is the only way Ricoh can afford to make such ambitious lenses. Maybe that's part of the explanation for the delay of the DFA 50 and the DA* 11-16. The production facilities in Vietnam are being held up to make lenses for Canon and Nikon. Also: will Tokina reciprocate with rebadges for Pentax? Is the new DFA 70-200 f4, slated to be released next spring, a Tokina rebadge? Is there a possibility of other Tokina lenses being rebadged? The 17-35/4 for instance? What other Pentax lenses, besides the star primes, might wind up being made for Tokina? The DFA fisheye zoom perhaps? Tokina seems to like fisheye zooms. They're still selling their version of the 10-17.

11-11-2018, 11:11 AM	#630
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by northcoastgreg I checked the Tokina website to confirm this, and yes, the lens is made in Vietnam (I couldn't find any other Tokina lenses that were manufactured in that country). This suggests the possibility that Pentax/Ricoh is now making lenses for Nikon and Canon and selling them through Tokina in the "Opera" series, which I assume will include the upcoming 85/1.4 and the 35/1.4. Perhaps making versions of these lenses for Canon and Nikon is the only way Ricoh can afford to make such ambitious lenses. Maybe that's part of the explanation for the delay of the DFA 50 and the DA* 11-16. The production facilities in Vietnam are being held up to make lenses for Canon and Nikon. Also: will Tokina reciprocate with rebadges for Pentax? Is the new DFA 70-200 f4, slated to be released next spring, a Tokina rebadge? Is there a possibility of other Tokina lenses being rebadged? The 17-35/4 for instance? What other Pentax lenses, besides the star primes, might wind up being made for Tokina? The DFA fisheye zoom perhaps? Tokina seems to like fisheye zooms. They're still selling their version of the 10-17. I'm also of the opinion that renewing the collaboration with Tokina is what made this lens possible. Not the technical part, but having it - with top-notch optics, ring-type SDM etc. - on the market for a mere $1200. OTOH the delay is explained here: Development Story \| HD PENTAX-D FA?50mm F1.4 SDM AW \| PENTAX STAR LENS \| RICOH IMAGING A technical issue discovered late in the development process. Since the Tokina version was launched later than the Pentax, it's definitely not about tying production facilities; I had my Pentax well before the Tokina reached the market. The best candidate of being a Tokina - likely not a rebadge, but design, as in the past - is the 70-200 f/4, as Tokina already have such a lens. But the D FA might be a Pentax design; we don't know yet. Fisheye zooms are a Pentax signature design; they had a 17-28mm film one, then the 10-17 which was also a Pentax.