Laowa 100mm F2.8 2:1 Macro lens for k-mount

Mistral75 · 11-14-2020, 04:10 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Not a Number

It is only a KA mount from my understanding, no chip. How many pins does it have on the mount? Post some pictures?

**Narog50** · 11-14-2020, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by Not a Number

Sweet! I wonder if it will be KA mount with contacts?

3. Automatic Aperture Coupling Lever for Pentax K
Laowa 100mm f/2.8 2x Ultra Macro APO in Pentax-K mount is assembled with the automatic aperture coupling lever, which allows aperture control via the body of the camera. Users can either use the manual aperture ring or park the focusing ring at the “A” symbol and adjust the aperture via the camera. Exif data would be stored in the metadata as well.

Read more: Venus Optics to announce a new Laowa 100mm f/2.8 2X Ultra Macro APO lens for Pentax K-mount - Pentax Rumors

Doundounba · 11-14-2020, 04:55 PM - **4 Likes**

OK, a few thoughts and shots from my upcoming write-up.

- The lens has some handling quirks. For example, there's no pin to lock the A position in place and the aperture ring clicks are very, very low friction. So it's super easy to knock the lens out of the A position while trying to compose and focus a shot in the field. Then the camera doesn't fire at all, which is pretty annoying. But once you know the risk, you can adjust the way you hold the lens.

- The mount aperture control is definitely at the KA level rather than KAF. If you look at this wonderful PF page on the evolution of the K-mount, you'll find the "Digital information contact" which was added with the KAF mount in 1989. AFAIK, this is the contact which a lens uses to communicate its focal length to the body, and it's definitely not present on the Laowa (see image below, or the one posted previously by Mistral75). And as mentioned previously, your K-Mount body will prompt you for a focal length when you turn it on with the Laowa 100mm 2X mounted.

- Optically, after just a few tests, I believe this lens doesn't take many prisoners. I need to retest at 2:1, where it's exceedingly difficult to control for correct focus if you don't have a good focus rail. (For example, when shooting a penny you can find once you review your shots that the bottom of the penny is in focus, but the top of the engraved letters on the penny are not! In the field, if the eyes are not in focus, the shot is just left on the cutting room floor so to speak, but in testing, you need to nail it.) But otherwise, testing against the D-FA 100mm WR and looking both at portrait-type shots shooting very open at around 1m distance, and at 1:1 macro shots shot very closed, I am very impressed.

- I shot about 400 frames in the field over three outings, and have published nine images as a result of those outings. You can have a look at all of them in this Flickr album. Now it definitely will no longer be possible to shoot bugs until the spring...

Paul the Sunman · 11-14-2020, 05:05 PM

It surprises me that these 3rd party lens manufacturers that obviously display a high degree of sophistication in lens design and manufacture cannot incorporate the most basic level of electronic coupling corresponding to the technology of 30 years ago.

bladerunner6 · 11-14-2020, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

OK, a few thoughts and shots from my upcoming write-up.

- The lens has some handling quirks. For example, there's no pin to lock the A position in place and the aperture ring clicks are very, very low friction. So it's super easy to knock the lens out of the A position while trying to compose and focus a shot in the field. Then the camera doesn't fire at all, which is pretty annoying. But once you know the risk, you can adjust the way you hold the lens.

- The mount aperture control is definitely at the KA level rather than KAF. If you look at this wonderful PF page on the evolution of the K-mount, you'll find the "Digital information contact" which was added with the KAF mount in 1989. AFAIK, this is the contact which a lens uses to communicate its focal length to the body, and it's definitely not present on the Laowa (see image below, or the one posted previously by Mistral75). And as mentioned previously, your K-Mount body will prompt you for a focal length when you turn it on with the Laowa 100mm 2X mounted.

- Optically, after just a few tests, I believe this lens doesn't take many prisoners. I need to retest at 2:1, where it's exceedingly difficult to control for correct focus if you don't have a good focus rail. (For example, when shooting a penny you can find once you review your shots that the bottom of the penny is in focus, but the top of the engraved letters on the penny are not! In the field, if the eyes are not in focus, the shot is just left on the cutting room floor so to speak, but in testing, you need to nail it.) But otherwise, testing against the D-FA 100mm WR and looking both at portrait-type shots shooting very open at around 1m distance, and at 1:1 macro shots shot very closed, I am very impressed.

- I shot about 400 frames in the field over three outings, and have published nine images as a result of those outings. You can have a look at all of them in this Flickr album. Now it definitely will no longer be possible to shoot bugs until the spring...

I am definitely looking forward to a full review of this.

**UncleVanya** · 11-14-2020, 06:02 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

It surprises me that these 3rd party lens manufacturers that obviously display a high degree of sophistication in lens design and manufacture cannot incorporate the most basic level of electronic coupling corresponding to the technology of 30 years ago.

They would need to do a different design for each and small brands would be even less likey to get lenses.

Doundounba · 11-14-2020, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by UncleVanya

They would need to do a different design for each and small brands would be even less likey to get lenses.

Indeed. For me the solution adopted by Laowa makes sense from a cost perspective, especially since the focal length and max aperture are perfectly standard values here. I don't mind giving the focal length when I turn on the camera, and the max aperture is encoded in the pins. If asked to choose, I'd prefer a locking A position over a chip that tells the camera the focal length...

Not a Number · 11-14-2020, 07:22 PM - **1 Like**

So except for the lack of a lock the mount is pretty much a throwback to the 80-90s KA mount with the insulated plugs.

You really have to be in awe of Thomas Shahan as he is doing handheld focus stacking shots.

**JensE** · 11-15-2020, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Doundounba

Indeed. For me the solution adopted by Laowa makes sense from a cost perspective, especially since the focal length and max aperture are perfectly standard values here. I don't mind giving the focal length when I turn on the camera, and the max aperture is encoded in the pins. If asked to choose, I'd prefer a locking A position over a chip that tells the camera the focal length...

I also really prefer a simple A-Implementation over the semi-correct IRIX one, which doesn't work with most extension rings and neither with the DA teleconverter. @Doundounba, I'd be interested if they got the lever angle to aperture relation right, i.e. if exposure at different F-Stops is reasonably consistent.

taktoon · 11-15-2020, 06:47 AM

My dilemma D-FA 100mm WR vs Irix 150mm is now even more confusing as I have this option.

Mike.P® · 11-15-2020, 07:24 AM

I often shoot with the Canon MP-E65mm hand held and as long as you have a good lighting setup you can get away with quite a bit. you have to watch out for diffraction after about f/8 though. Looking forward to getting the Laowa, it's not yet available in UK shops though.

Hover Fly by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr

Fly Macro by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr

Thagomizer · 11-15-2020, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Mike.P®

I often shoot with the Canon MP-E65mm hand held and as long as you have a good lighting setup you can get away with quite a bit. you have to watch out for diffraction after about f/8 though. Looking forward to getting the Laowa, it's not yet available in UK shops though.

Hover Fly by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr

Fly Macro by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr

Both nice, but that second one's great!

thibs · 11-15-2020, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

It surprises me that these 3rd party lens manufacturers that obviously display a high degree of sophistication in lens design and manufacture cannot incorporate the most basic level of electronic coupling corresponding to the technology of 30 years ago.

Simple: patents. KA mount patents have expired. Not true for KAF: KA2, KAF2, KAF3 and KAF4 (AFAICT).

sculptor666 · 11-15-2020, 02:54 PM

I'll post some sample images when mine arrives.

Mistral75 · 11-15-2020, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by thibs

Simple: patents. KA mount patents have expired. Not true for KAF: KA2, KAF2, KAF3 and KAF4 (AFAICT).

In most countries patent validity / protection is 20 years from the day of filing the patent request.

KAF (1987) has been in the public domain since more than a decade. KAF includes basic lens-body digital transmission: lens focal length, distance to subject, selected f-stop and other information.

Venus Optics would have been entitled to use KAF / KA2 (which is KAF less AF) protocols for their Laowa 100mm f/2.8 2x Ultra Macro Apo, should have they wished to do so.

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11-14-2020, 04:10 AM - 1 Like	#271
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by Not a Number It is only a KA mount from my understanding, no chip. How many pins does it have on the mount? Post some pictures?

11-14-2020, 04:57 AM	#272
Narog50 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 4	Originally posted by Not a Number Sweet! I wonder if it will be KA mount with contacts? 3. Automatic Aperture Coupling Lever for Pentax K Laowa 100mm f/2.8 2x Ultra Macro APO in Pentax-K mount is assembled with the automatic aperture coupling lever, which allows aperture control via the body of the camera. Users can either use the manual aperture ring or park the focusing ring at the “A” symbol and adjust the aperture via the camera. Exif data would be stored in the metadata as well. Read more: Venus Optics to announce a new Laowa 100mm f/2.8 2X Ultra Macro APO lens for Pentax K-mount - Pentax Rumors

11-14-2020, 04:55 PM - 4 Likes	#273
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	OK, a few thoughts and shots from my upcoming write-up. - The lens has some handling quirks. For example, there's no pin to lock the A position in place and the aperture ring clicks are very, very low friction. So it's super easy to knock the lens out of the A position while trying to compose and focus a shot in the field. Then the camera doesn't fire at all, which is pretty annoying. But once you know the risk, you can adjust the way you hold the lens. - The mount aperture control is definitely at the KA level rather than KAF. If you look at this wonderful PF page on the evolution of the K-mount, you'll find the "Digital information contact" which was added with the KAF mount in 1989. AFAIK, this is the contact which a lens uses to communicate its focal length to the body, and it's definitely not present on the Laowa (see image below, or the one posted previously by Mistral75). And as mentioned previously, your K-Mount body will prompt you for a focal length when you turn it on with the Laowa 100mm 2X mounted. - Optically, after just a few tests, I believe this lens doesn't take many prisoners. I need to retest at 2:1, where it's exceedingly difficult to control for correct focus if you don't have a good focus rail. (For example, when shooting a penny you can find once you review your shots that the bottom of the penny is in focus, but the top of the engraved letters on the penny are not! In the field, if the eyes are not in focus, the shot is just left on the cutting room floor so to speak, but in testing, you need to nail it.) But otherwise, testing against the D-FA 100mm WR and looking both at portrait-type shots shooting very open at around 1m distance, and at 1:1 macro shots shot very closed, I am very impressed. - I shot about 400 frames in the field over three outings, and have published nine images as a result of those outings. You can have a look at all of them in this Flickr album. Now it definitely will no longer be possible to shoot bugs until the spring...

11-14-2020, 05:05 PM	#274
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	It surprises me that these 3rd party lens manufacturers that obviously display a high degree of sophistication in lens design and manufacture cannot incorporate the most basic level of electronic coupling corresponding to the technology of 30 years ago.

11-14-2020, 05:07 PM	#275
bladerunner6 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Doundounba OK, a few thoughts and shots from my upcoming write-up. - The lens has some handling quirks. For example, there's no pin to lock the A position in place and the aperture ring clicks are very, very low friction. So it's super easy to knock the lens out of the A position while trying to compose and focus a shot in the field. Then the camera doesn't fire at all, which is pretty annoying. But once you know the risk, you can adjust the way you hold the lens. - The mount aperture control is definitely at the KA level rather than KAF. If you look at this wonderful PF page on the evolution of the K-mount, you'll find the "Digital information contact" which was added with the KAF mount in 1989. AFAIK, this is the contact which a lens uses to communicate its focal length to the body, and it's definitely not present on the Laowa (see image below, or the one posted previously by Mistral75). And as mentioned previously, your K-Mount body will prompt you for a focal length when you turn it on with the Laowa 100mm 2X mounted. - Optically, after just a few tests, I believe this lens doesn't take many prisoners. I need to retest at 2:1, where it's exceedingly difficult to control for correct focus if you don't have a good focus rail. (For example, when shooting a penny you can find once you review your shots that the bottom of the penny is in focus, but the top of the engraved letters on the penny are not! In the field, if the eyes are not in focus, the shot is just left on the cutting room floor so to speak, but in testing, you need to nail it.) But otherwise, testing against the D-FA 100mm WR and looking both at portrait-type shots shooting very open at around 1m distance, and at 1:1 macro shots shot very closed, I am very impressed. - I shot about 400 frames in the field over three outings, and have published nine images as a result of those outings. You can have a look at all of them in this Flickr album. Now it definitely will no longer be possible to shoot bugs until the spring... I am definitely looking forward to a full review of this.

11-14-2020, 06:02 PM - 2 Likes	#276
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman It surprises me that these 3rd party lens manufacturers that obviously display a high degree of sophistication in lens design and manufacture cannot incorporate the most basic level of electronic coupling corresponding to the technology of 30 years ago. They would need to do a different design for each and small brands would be even less likey to get lenses.

11-14-2020, 06:56 PM	#277
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by UncleVanya They would need to do a different design for each and small brands would be even less likey to get lenses. Indeed. For me the solution adopted by Laowa makes sense from a cost perspective, especially since the focal length and max aperture are perfectly standard values here. I don't mind giving the focal length when I turn on the camera, and the max aperture is encoded in the pins. If asked to choose, I'd prefer a locking A position over a chip that tells the camera the focal length...

11-14-2020, 07:22 PM - 1 Like	#278
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	So except for the lack of a lock the mount is pretty much a throwback to the 80-90s KA mount with the insulated plugs. You really have to be in awe of Thomas Shahan as he is doing handheld focus stacking shots.

11-15-2020, 05:15 AM	#279
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Originally posted by Doundounba Indeed. For me the solution adopted by Laowa makes sense from a cost perspective, especially since the focal length and max aperture are perfectly standard values here. I don't mind giving the focal length when I turn on the camera, and the max aperture is encoded in the pins. If asked to choose, I'd prefer a locking A position over a chip that tells the camera the focal length... I also really prefer a simple A-Implementation over the semi-correct IRIX one, which doesn't work with most extension rings and neither with the DA teleconverter. @Doundounba, I'd be interested if they got the lever angle to aperture relation right, i.e. if exposure at different F-Stops is reasonably consistent.

11-15-2020, 06:47 AM	#280
taktoon Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 605	My dilemma D-FA 100mm WR vs Irix 150mm is now even more confusing as I have this option.

11-15-2020, 07:24 AM	#281
Mike.P® Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,154	I often shoot with the Canon MP-E65mm hand held and as long as you have a good lighting setup you can get away with quite a bit. you have to watch out for diffraction after about f/8 though. Looking forward to getting the Laowa, it's not yet available in UK shops though. Hover Fly by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr Fly Macro by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr

11-15-2020, 12:04 PM	#282
Thagomizer Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: London Ontario Posts: 2,068	Originally posted by Mike.P® I often shoot with the Canon MP-E65mm hand held and as long as you have a good lighting setup you can get away with quite a bit. you have to watch out for diffraction after about f/8 though. Looking forward to getting the Laowa, it's not yet available in UK shops though. Hover Fly by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr Fly Macro by Mike.Pursey, on Flickr Both nice, but that second one's great!

11-15-2020, 02:50 PM	#283
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman It surprises me that these 3rd party lens manufacturers that obviously display a high degree of sophistication in lens design and manufacture cannot incorporate the most basic level of electronic coupling corresponding to the technology of 30 years ago. Simple: patents. KA mount patents have expired. Not true for KAF: KA2, KAF2, KAF3 and KAF4 (AFAICT).

11-15-2020, 02:54 PM	#284
sculptor666 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: PA Photos: Gallery Posts: 675	I'll post some sample images when mine arrives.

11-15-2020, 03:29 PM	#285
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by thibs Simple: patents. KA mount patents have expired. Not true for KAF: KA2, KAF2, KAF3 and KAF4 (AFAICT). In most countries patent validity / protection is 20 years from the day of filing the patent request. KAF (1987) has been in the public domain since more than a decade. KAF includes basic lens-body digital transmission: lens focal length, distance to subject, selected f-stop and other information. Venus Optics would have been entitled to use KAF / KA2 (which is KAF less AF) protocols for their Laowa 100mm f/2.8 2x Ultra Macro Apo, should have they wished to do so.