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09-08-2008, 11:32 AM   #16
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With a K110D, i can only say these are very good words

Aniway, looking for the DSLR i downloaded and printed the brochures from websites

09-08-2008, 12:21 PM   #17
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Great story, I had a similar approach to buying Hi Fi, except that I would continually buy used systems and components so that I could live with them and if I didn't like them I would sell them on (sometimes at a profit) and buy a replacement. It was fun because, to start with, my ear had to be educated to what sounded good to me. Eventually I acquired a system that I still have today 18 years later, I even had it shipped over from England when I came here. I also got that system at bargain basement prices.

Thanks for posting, you took me on a trip down memory lane.

Problem with LBA and CBA (and that extends to what people want) is that cameras and lenses are smaller than Hi Fi components and they are nice to just look at. All shiny, just what the jackdaw traits in some of us zero in on. The pack rats as well. I confess I have outbreaks of both of those traits from time to time.
09-09-2008, 08:54 AM   #18
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Great insight

In the world where "more is better", at least somebody is talking sense ...
Perfect !!!
09-09-2008, 11:40 AM   #19
Busiko
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Photo, HiFi,CMOS and MOSFETs

Pertinent Cateto's writing. But it's in the Nature of the Human Being to look further and above. Dreams is what makes life go on. So it's not at all wrong thinking of all those state of the art ways of supplying a tool to make you be happier. At the end, even if you can't afford it, you know that it exists and someone else will use it.

My two cents. Even better than listening and buying, just DIY, the right way. And here I fully recommend Mr Erno's works. The BEST.

Mr. Erno Home Page

Rui

09-09-2008, 12:22 PM   #20
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I dissagree

I am a new comer, but respectfully disagree. I have a K10D. I have taken some nice pictures with it and the IQ is fine. I bought it because my father always had Pentax, but more importantly it was weatherproof. I am very partial to pentax and biased against Canon and Nikon.

However, as I read these posts, they sound like they were written by a defense attorney. "We didn't run over the plaintiff, but if we did, he is better now than before so we owe no damages" Based on reading most of the posts, Pentax is perfect, and if it isn't, then is less expensive so it is still better.

For example, I just learned from this one that it has the most accurate focusing system. However, when my friend and I tried to shoot a bird flying around the pier, his Nikon tracked it and my pentax was out of focus. We actually swapped cameras and found the same result. It is not what was behind the lens. I have plenty of out of focus shots from my recent Alaska trip to convince me that the autofocus is too slow ( (I know, then go buy a canon).


His Nikon also has a more accurate auto white balance than my Pentax (I know this can be corrected so pentax is best).

And then there is the 3fps which sports photographers call "hit and miss". ( I know years ago sports illustrated pics came from slower camera and 3fps is fast enough to make 5 or more fps unimportant --if I don't like it I should go buy a Nikon and find out all the trouble it has.)

Further, almost everyone agrees that Pentax underexposes it pictures.... (I know....)

And then there is the plastic body instead of magnesium (I now it is weather proof), the noise at high ISO the lack of certain lenses, and the difficulty finding special lenses to rent. I signed up for a trip to Alaska this next February with a pro photographer to photograph the Northern Lights. I asked him what kind of lens I needed for wildlife we might see. He had never heard of a K10D and had no suggestions.

My point is that there is plenty wrong with pentax (yes,with other brands too, I know!). It makes no sense to pretend there isn't. "We can do this to overcome this problem and that to overcome that problem" excuses are all over the forums. We deserve a faster focusing system (even though it is now the most accurate in the world), a better auto white balance, and a better metering system. These are basics and Pentax should keep up with ALL other brands on these. We also deserve better quality control on the lenses, so that we don't have front focusing problems on them and pray we get a good copy.


Personally, I have been checking here and all over the net hoping to find that pentax came out with a new camera meeting these expectations. Because as much as I lean towards pentax, if the other brands have them and Pentax doesn't, I will have to switch. It's kind of like supporting your local camera store. You want to buy there, but at some point you have to defer to your pocket book.
09-09-2008, 01:58 PM   #21
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^ Excuse me but I think you completely lost my point: my post is about acute featuritis much more than it is to defend Pentax.

Pentax needs no defense, just people with open minds.
09-09-2008, 02:11 PM   #22
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I use Pentax for over 30 years now. my first body was a spotmatic F, the first touch was like comming home. It also was that way wit the MX, ME, Ist Ds and K10D and soon with a K*whatever.

Dome time ago I went for a city trip to madrid, I so a pentax fanatic running arround with a FA* 300/4.5 on his DSLR ist wasnt you by aby chance?

Thanks for sharing!

Guido
09-09-2008, 02:20 PM   #23
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No, it was not me: I live in Córdoba, in the South of Spain, and I don't have those lenses you mention (although I'd like to!).

09-09-2008, 02:23 PM   #24
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Only One Spec Is Necessary For Buying Sound Equipment

QuoteOriginally posted by cateto Quote
and that many excellently specced pieces of gear sounded awful; and that some gear whose numbers looked bad sounded, in fact, stunning.
As a former 'audiophile' salesperson, I can assure you there is one specification that can be used in 99% of the cases to determine the quality of a piece of sound equipment. Simply look to see how much the thing weighs. I'm perfectly serious. A heavy amplifier has proper heat sinks for example. A heavy pair of speakers has sufficient mass to allow the drivers to move accurately (think of the difference between using a tripod or not.)
What this means is to get proper value in sound equipment, you should shop at a music store and buy 'professional' musicians or studio gear and avoid 'consumer' equipment like the plague.
My sister has her Masters Degree in vocal performance. If you sit in a small room with her singing it is so bloody loud and dynamic and stunning, NO consumer stereo can even come close. Even those B&W's referred to earlier. It's a big scam. I sold all my uber-expensive consumer 'audiophile' equipment and now use equipment I bought at a music equipment store. Look for studio monitors with built-in amplifiers. They are the only things that come close to the real thing - and they're relatively cheap!
'Listening' to equipment in stores is a scam. You show me which speakers or equipment you want to sound the best, and I can do it. Through the use of speaker placement, interconnects, music selection or any number of other tricks, the system I want to sound the best to maximize my profit, will.
To bring this back to the OP's point, it's all about photography, not numbers. I shoot Pentax because their cameras always have a focus on the practical needs of the photographer. The only thing I ever do is read the operator's manual and determine what functions are going to be useful and practical in the field. My interest in hauling around a huge FilmFrame telephoto is zero for example. I was seriously considering buying a K20D after there were 3 significant price drops. But that never happened! We'll see what Photokina brings...
09-09-2008, 02:33 PM   #25
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I disagree with some of your points, Mr. Guy: of course some dealers can trick to make you buy the most expensive gear, but others do not. Usually those who do not trick keep their customers for a much longer time. In my case, pretty much anything with a plug has been purchased in the shop of the dealer I mentioned in my first post.

But I diggress: my little story intended to showcase that people should focus more on how to make good photographs and less on how many megapixels have their cameras, or how fast is the autofocus, etc.
09-09-2008, 03:02 PM   #26
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Bravo Cateto for your well-written piece. I've had opportunities of late to take my K10D out into areas where people with much higher specced cameras have also been working. Now, I'm not going to say the Pentax is their equal (it may be but that's not the point) - the point is when I look at my photos afterwards, yes, I can see how a faster frame rate or a faster/more accurate focus mechanism might have HELPED me in the same way as using a machine gun is better than a sniper rifle at close range. But for all useful purposes the easiest thing to 'change' is my approach, not my camera.

Most of my failed photos *might* have been better taken by a better camera... but for the most part, a better approach by me would have been much more useful. I try very hard not to blame my K10D for shortcomings I have.

The only time I'm slightly dissatisfied is when I take the camera to its limts and wish it had greater limits!

Once again, though, a very well written piece.
09-09-2008, 05:28 PM   #27
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cateto As I said earlier. I totally agree with your original post. You will see that if you read my earlier link that was basically along the same lines.

You are swimming up a swift river. Many will understand and agree. Many will not. Sad but both your thread and mine are just speed bumps along the road to endless pursuits of the perfect camera/lens whatever.
09-09-2008, 06:23 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jdnaples Quote
I am a new comer, but respectfully disagree. I have a K10D. I have taken some nice pictures with it and the IQ is fine. I bought it because my father always had Pentax, but more importantly it was weatherproof. I am very partial to pentax and biased against Canon and Nikon.

However, as I read these posts, they sound like they were written by a defense attorney. "We didn't run over the plaintiff, but if we did, he is better now than before so we owe no damages" Based on reading most of the posts, Pentax is perfect, and if it isn't, then is less expensive so it is still better.

For example, I just learned from this one that it has the most accurate focusing system. However, when my friend and I tried to shoot a bird flying around the pier, his Nikon tracked it and my pentax was out of focus. We actually swapped cameras and found the same result. It is not what was behind the lens. I have plenty of out of focus shots from my recent Alaska trip to convince me that the autofocus is too slow ( (I know, then go buy a canon).


His Nikon also has a more accurate auto white balance than my Pentax (I know this can be corrected so pentax is best).

And then there is the 3fps which sports photographers call "hit and miss". ( I know years ago sports illustrated pics came from slower camera and 3fps is fast enough to make 5 or more fps unimportant --if I don't like it I should go buy a Nikon and find out all the trouble it has.)

Further, almost everyone agrees that Pentax underexposes it pictures.... (I know....)

And then there is the plastic body instead of magnesium (I now it is weather proof), the noise at high ISO the lack of certain lenses, and the difficulty finding special lenses to rent. I signed up for a trip to Alaska this next February with a pro photographer to photograph the Northern Lights. I asked him what kind of lens I needed for wildlife we might see. He had never heard of a K10D and had no suggestions.

My point is that there is plenty wrong with pentax (yes,with other brands too, I know!). It makes no sense to pretend there isn't. "We can do this to overcome this problem and that to overcome that problem" excuses are all over the forums. We deserve a faster focusing system (even though it is now the most accurate in the world), a better auto white balance, and a better metering system. These are basics and Pentax should keep up with ALL other brands on these. We also deserve better quality control on the lenses, so that we don't have front focusing problems on them and pray we get a good copy.


Personally, I have been checking here and all over the net hoping to find that pentax came out with a new camera meeting these expectations. Because as much as I lean towards pentax, if the other brands have them and Pentax doesn't, I will have to switch. It's kind of like supporting your local camera store. You want to buy there, but at some point you have to defer to your pocket book.
I don't agree that Pentax "underexposes it pictures". My K10D doesn't. However, with all the exposure options and the occasional difficulty determining exactly where the camera is metering, it does sometimes give the "wrong" exposure (it overexposes as often as it underexposes).

The body of the K10D is NOT plastic. It is a stainless steel chassis that is COVERED with plastic. When the D200 came out, with its Titanium body, it cost over $2,500. The K10D, by contrast listed at $1,199 (body only) IIRC. For me, Stainless Steel is way more than enough. For me, the extra cost for the Titanium body would be wasted money. Not all Nikon bodies are titanium, either. This is one of the reasons I bought my first Pentax in 1967 and why I have a K10D today. Yes, some Nikon models are built tougher than my Pentax, but I don't need that toughness and to pay for it would be silly.

A frame rate of 3 fps is more than enough for me and a lot of others like me. Not everyone can make that statement. If you're one of those, then perhaps Pentax is not the camera for you. Fine, but that doesn't mean that Pentax is somehow inferior or that the company is doomed if they don't release a 7-8 fps camera. I think I've only used continuous mode once in the year I've had my camera. Others may use it every day and need faster rates.

Pentax is not perfect. No camera is. For me, it is the best value around. I would certainly HOPE that a Nikon or Canon costing two or three times as much as my Pentax would perform better. Compare a K10D or K20D to a Nikon D70 or D80, not a D300 or D3. Pentax is concentrating on a different market segment.

A lot of the people who insist that Pentax is doomed if they don't release a 10 fps camera or a FF camera or whatever, seem to ignore the fact that if Pentax did, it would cost as much as a D300 or D3.

I like the fact that my K10D stabilizes every lens I can mount on it, even my old screw-mount Super Takumar 50mm, f/1.4 prime lens. My brother can't even mount the lenses from his Nikon F on his D200. Some of those old lenses are as good or better than anything available today, from any manufacturer. I like the sensor cleaning feature in my K10D, which doesn't even exist in the D200.

I read quite often that someone has decided to leave Pentax and buy Nikon or Canon. In the real world, most people can't afford to dump $2,000 in camera equipment and turn around and spend $4,000 to replace it. And it is usually for things like 3 fps or the perceived superiority of in-lens stabilization or a 24 x 36 frame size.

I will grant you that I can't go to a camera store and rent Pentax cameras or lenses, the way I could with Nikon or Canon equipment. Pentax is trying to set up a network for pros, but as yet, it is still in its very early stages. Again, this is not something I really care about. I suspect that most D80 owners don't care, either.

And I really do agree with you whole heartedly about AWB. If its anything but daylight, I go to manual white balance, or correct it in photoshop from the RAW image.
09-14-2008, 05:47 PM   #29
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very nice, cateto. sometimes i am too amazed by this feature-hunt. kind of reminds me of antoine de saint expuery's observation in "le petit prince" about "adults" being more concerned with numbers rather than with what "really" matters. i think it's the desperate hunt for "objective" measurement, forgetting sometimes that it is of no use whatsoever when the final judge is as subjective as it gets (ones self). i guess this is the comsumer market. we are not really supposed to buy something because we need it, but because it's for sale. i just stopped worriyng and learned to love the bomb^H^H^Hcarry on shooting.

nice storry, talk about hitting the nail on the head..
09-14-2008, 06:13 PM   #30
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I totally agree with your points, very well said. my Hi-Fi system is made up of used 70's era pioneer equipment anda mix of old and new audio-technica equipment. my turntable is audio-technica as well as my cartridge. none of these components are 'audiophile' grade and would likely bee sneered at but just as my pentax cameras and lenses give me wonderful photos, my hi-fi system produces wonderful sound, that rivals anything out there. including you Linn owners... yea thats right you too. its all about the quality you get not the numbers, not the specs. pentax delievers where it counts and didnt cost me and arm and a leg, just as audio-technica does. number chasers are all the same though....
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